I'M BACKKKKKKKKKKK

[DFE]

So my last post was on 10/1/13. I pretty much washed my hands of this marriage then. I started to get used to the idea of being single. Did I like it no but what was I to do. Then one night my H text me saying he was going to drop by. I told him he couldn't because I was having company. COMPANY he asked? I said yes and you can't just drop by when you want to. I need notice.

Well that night he had apparently driven by the house and was prepared to come in if he didn't recognize the car outside. He was going to confront whomever was here. He said he didn't want his kids around another man in his house. We later had a talk about it and he said he wanted us to try again. He didn't want to throw what we had out but he had rules. He wanted us not to fight anymore. To be each others friend. To start off with a clean slate. He was open to counseling as well but that has never worked before so I didn't jump at the opportunity.

Fast forward 3 months and he said he was thinking of moving back.

He moved back in February. Not that long ago. He started sleeping in our bed again and we even started having sex regularly. Then we went out one night and he got upset because I was drinking and didn't want to leave. It's been downhill since then. Every argument we get into he is ready to jump down my throat. The last one started last week over something really small. He has since slept downstairs and gives me the silent treatment.

I have tried talking to him. Telling him this is no way for us to resolve conflict but he says I have nothing to say. He says I am his problem and that he despises me. I have anxiety and stress. I am back to where I was before. it's like a mind game. I just want peace in my life. I would have rather he never come back then to play this yo yo game with me.

What do I do? The more I talk to him the more I feel I am belittling myself. I have tried to be calm. I have tried yelling. Crying. I am out of options. As a refresher for anyone who doesn't know my sitch we have been together 20 years, married for 11, have two kids, and own a business together. Divorce won't be clean. it will not only effect my kids, my home life, but also my livelihood.

What do I do? Any advise would sure help.

[MrBond]

Sorry that you find yourself back on here. Did you ever find a good MC to go to after he came back? Did he ever talk to you about his issues about the M before he came back? Did you revert to old habits?

[DFE]

MrBond
I've gone through many counselors. Unfortunately all of them seemed to do more harm or didn't help. I've even tried individual counseling. I've looked at a marriage boot camp but don't know if that will be effective. We have trouble communicating. It seems I say one thing and he hears another. He has a lot of anger towards me. He feels I have controlled his life but I don't see it that way.

He's even angry at me because he decided to move out and rented a small apt smaller than our family room. He said he is bitter towards me for that although I never asked him to leave. Seems I can do no right.

I think we are both making an effort. It's just when we have a disagreement the past comes up and we go back to our old method of fighting. Just yelling and screaming. He is back on the couch and has shut down again. I've tried and tried to get him to open up. He thinks we should have zero fights. I think fights are ok as long as you learn how to resolve them. He doesn't want to talk about things.

[angel61]

Have you tried Retrouvaille?

[MrBond]

"We have trouble communicating."

That's always a vague comment when people say that. There are lots of reasons why people can't seem to get their message across. I don't see that in your H's case.

"It seems I say one thing and he hears another. He has a lot of anger towards me. He feels I have controlled his life but I don't see it that way."

That's the problem right there. He holds you accountable for his happiness which is neither warranted or fair. You can't be in charge of how happy he is. No one can be the sole source of someone else's happiness. It seems like he's blaming you because he can't seem to take any personal responsibility for his own actions.

He needs to get himself right by taking responsibility and getting rid of perceived resentments that he may have with you.

[angel61]

The problem Mr. Bond is that that kind of advice seeks to get action from a person that DFE has nop control over. Remember one of the premises of DBing is improving yourself as there's nothing you can do or say that can change another person. It is the change in you that will bring about a change in the other person.

DFE, have you read the book about how to save your marriage without talking about it (Love and Stosny)? that helped me a lot. Once I learned how to respond we fought a lot less.

[chasingpavements]

DFE, glad you are back but sorry that things are not working out so well for you lately. Sounded like things were moving forward, and then perhaps old habits came back again? Sounds like he is on edge, getting upset over little things and starting arguments. I wonder what is underneith all of that emotion? Do you think he is upset about something or just falling into old patterns?

Is he doing any counseling right now? Seems like that would be a good start. In order to reconcile, it would good for him to have some of his own individual counseling, to address his own personal issues that need attending to.

When H and I first started reconciling, we started by each doing our own individual therapy, then, when we were ready, we started going to MC sessions together.

[DFE]

I had another talk with him last night. This will be the 8th straight dai I've tried reaching out to him. It turned into another argument because he didn't want to talk. I sent him an email last night saying we can't go on like this and that I would like to try a marriage boot camp. His response "screw u" I have another 13 years left before the kids leave for school. Stay out of my way and I will stay out of yours.

That infuriated me and I had another discussion with him this morning. He said we are two different and he just can't anymore. He says I control him because we work together. He wants his freedom. He says I track all his expenses. Funny thing is he puts all dining charges on a credit card I don't know of. Something to hide?

He gets offended when I sake where he is or with whom. Let me note I've only done that once since he's been back. I found a receipt for a restaurant and it was obvious he dined with a female because of the order. Never questioned him until the other day because he denied going there. Again paid with some other credit card. I'm starting to think he is hiding something from me. He has always been very honest but his behaviors are strange.

I don't know what to think.

[chasingpavements]

What a bummer DFE, sounds like he is pulling away. From an outsider perspective, to me it seems like he could use some space. (ie/Sandi's rules about no pressure, no relationship talks, etc.) for a while. It seems like he is so moody at every little thing. Has he always been like that? Is it part of his character, or is it just worse lately? Either way, it seems you should back off a bit to give him a little bit of space. Perhaps hold off on the boot camp idea, just for a bit anyhow, given how he is responding to the relationship talks.

[DFE]

I didn't realize there were no relationship talks in piecing. In hindsight I wish I left him alone but I get so very frustrated. I have tried so very hard to put my ego aside since he's been back. I try to make up with him after every argument. I realize it's just not worth it.

He on the other hand treats me as if I am insignificant. I guess I am to him but it still infuriates me. Things don't need to be this hard. Forgive, forget, and move on. Life's too short but he won't let it go. Well he just told me he is ready to talk tonight when the kids sleep. And from the look on his face I know what he wants to say. I am not ready for this again. Here we go!!!

[BrightFuture]

From what I’ve read about reconciliation or piecing here on this board, you don’t stop DBing during this time. They still need space and time. If I would be you, I would find some excuse to avoid the talk tonight. And start DBing like crazy.

[chasingpavements]

I'm sorry DFE, if I wasn't clear. There can be relationship talks in piecing, but just be careful about it. In other words, too many talks could overwhelm him. If he is pulling away, or getting overwhelmed and moody, then dial back on the talks. I agree with BrightFuture, to give him a bit of space and time and do some DBing. Just based on how he is acting lately. Try not to be to hard on yourself, you are doing your best! I know piecing can be so hard, stick to it though, I think you are doing good. If you do end up talking tonight, I would say just let him take the lead, hear what he has to say, and validate, validate, validate! lol. Good luck, thinking of you!

Cp

[DFE]

So I tried avoiding the talk last night. I sat in the family room while he went upstairs to the bedroom. The one he never wants to be in when we fight. About an hour later I got an email from him asking for a divorce. AGAIN. Of course I came upstairs. He infuriates me when he communicates via email. This is our damned life. Talk to me about it.

I came up and started talking to him. Told him that he needs to learn to talk about issues rather than run from them. It was like I was talking to a brick wall. He kept watching TV and told me he wasn't ready to discuss the divorce and that we would work out the details in the morning. He said you just don't get it. I have told you in every which way but you are like a robot. You just go about life. TRUE but you give me mixed signals.

I let him go last time. He was the one that came back because he thought I was seeing someone else. He wanted to work on things. He asked to move back in. None of that was me. So why? Why did you come back I asked.

I kept talking he kept ignoring. I finally got upset. I told him I would give him his divorce but there would be no more of what we did before. No more coming over and spending time with the kids. No more spending the time when it was convenient. No more.

He asked me to leave him alone and said that we would discuss the details today.

He went downstairs to sleep and I stayed in my room sobbing like a child. he did it to me again. I swore he wouldn't. I then took a Xanax to be able to sleep. Fast forward to 2:30 in the morning. I am passed out and he wakes me up to ask me if I am ok. I said yes barely able to wake up. Next thing I know he get's into bed with me. Slowly he inches his way over and holds me. I was passed out the whole time but could tell.

That's messing with my mind. Messing with me. The man is confused and I am tired of it. He can't handle conflict. Cant handle stress. I don't think in anyway that means he wants to work on things. He still wants the divorce I am sure but what is that all about? Guilt? Just let me be. Leave.

I have tried telling him over and over what an impact this will have on our lives. Our kids. And it will be a HUGE impact on our business. We may lose it. We will both have to start from scratch. I am a shell of a person and want to kick myself for all that i have put up with. To him i look like a doormat. To me i feel he has a psychological issue he doesn't want to face. Nightly pot smoking and drinking tells me he has deamons he is trying to run from. Makes him a whole person he says when he smokes pot.

so the roller coaster goes on.

[makingmagic]

DFE.... so sorry to hear this. This is hard enough to go through it once, can't imagine having to do it again and again.

((hugs)) Magic

[DFE]

Thank you MakingMagic.

Obviously it's my fault that I keep going through this with him. I keep letting it happen. I just don't know how to stop because I know in my heart it's not the best for us. He is struggling with something. His behaviours are not normal and i keep trying to "fix him" . i need to realize that there is nothing I can do. Eventually one day my kids will be grown and they will eventually get used to the idea of daddy not having lived with us. I just wish it didn't have to be so.

He has asked me to lunch to discuss the details. I am dreading it but it needs to be done. I will not beg or plead as i know from past experience it won't help. I love him in some sick way but i think it's the man i fell in love with not who he has become. I feel sad for him.

Off i go to deal with my fate.

[paul19510]

Obviously it's my fault that I keep going through this with him. I keep letting it happen. I just don't know how to stop because I know in my heart it's not the best for us. He is struggling with something. His behaviours are not normal and i keep trying to "fix him" . i need to realize that there is nothing I can do. Eventually one day my kids will be grown and they will eventually get used to the idea of daddy not having lived with us. I just wish it didn't have to be so.

He has asked me to lunch to discuss the details. I am dreading it but it needs to be done. I will not beg or plead as i know from past experience it won't help. I love him in some sick way but i think it's the man i fell in love with not who he has become. I feel sad for him.

Off i go to deal with my fate.

DFE I feel for you. It sounds like you are similar to me and others here. I told my W that I had been her H for Half my adult life and was trying to understand how to be something else now. But I am trying. She just looked mad. She wants what she wants and that's it. and she's making really selfish moves and decisions in the process. Try t let go. I am also trying. Otherwise, you just get hurt.

[makingmagic]

more hugs... to both!!

Its extremely gruelling... Yes, they get to make the selfish moves and decisions while we play victim and hurt.

One thing that was pointed out to me again on the weekend, was that being strong and independent and in control of self...is attractive.

[labug]

Thank you MakingMagic.

Obviously it's my fault that I keep going through this with him. I keep letting it happen. I just don't know how to stop because I know in my heart it's not the best for us. He is struggling with something. His behaviours are not normal and i keep trying to "fix him" . i need to realize that there is nothing I can do. Eventually one day my kids will be grown and they will eventually get used to the idea of daddy not having lived with us. I just wish it didn't have to be so.

He has asked me to lunch to discuss the details. I am dreading it but it needs to be done. I will not beg or plead as i know from past experience it won't help. I love him in some sick way but i think it's the man i fell in love with not who he has become. I feel sad for him.

Off i go to deal with my fate.

My .02-your H is s a big boy, he can fix himself if he chooses. Don't use up any more precious minutes of your life doing things for others that they are capable of doing for themselves. I battle fixit-itis on an almost daily basis. It doesn't just go away, you have to work at it.

That work involves fixing you. As long as we're preoccupied with someone else's "problems" it keep the focus off us.

What are you doing for you?

[DFE]

I'm so used to doing for others that I forget about myself. Why am I so crushed that someone so undependable wants to leave again? I should have known we would end up here again but just two weeks ago he was making plans for our future. I just don't know how he flips the switch like he does.

[jp787]

DFE,
Sounds very one sided to me. I don't see from what you write that he is really intersted in making the M work.
To me he would need to show signs of wanting to change, to be different to look at where you are as piecing.
IMO I would get back to DBing and focuse on you and making yourself happy and sain.

[DFE]

Is this the END?

He has said he wants a divorce and that he is DONE DONE DONE!!!

we went back and forth on email fighting like two enemies. I finally sent him one last email saying listen I am not your enemy. I will always love you no matter what happens. You will always have a special place in my heart. Please give me a little time to come up with options to split our assets and we can do this amicably.

He came upstairs and shook my hand and said I don't want to fight. We have made a decision and lets move forward with it. He tried talking to me later last night but I told him I wasn't in the proper state of mind to speak about it right now. (I was sobbing like a child)

So now what? He wants to know how we are going to do this and I have no answers. Attorney's will make us lose everything. If I go that route he wants custody of the kids as well. He wants 50 percent of everything. EVERYTHING. This is a new him but he has come to his boiling point.

So last night I came down and said if its ok we will talk tomorrow. I gave him a hug and he kissed me on the cheek. I then went to bed. I came down to the couch where he was sleeping at around 5 am and asked if I could lay next to him. I had heard noises all night. Turns out it was him walking around. He held me while I laid my head on his chest. I slept. I wanted to weep.

Now what do I do? I have two ideas but need opinions.

I think I have brought myself down in his eyes too many times asking him to work on this marriage. He came back on his own this time but it's only been a month. I can just say here this is what we have. let's sell the house, continue to work together in our business, and you move out.

OR

I can tell him to build the basement like he has been wanting to. Build his man cave instead of the money he will spend on an apartment rental. He can spend his time there if that's what he chooses and can sleep in the spare bedroom upstairs or wherever he wants. I will stay out of his way. I think it's important for him to be here for me and for the kids. It will save us money. It will keep him in his home of comfort. He told me when he came back last time that leaving is the hardest thing he has ever had to do. How can I let him go again?

I know I need to open up the cage doors and I will. But do I give him an option to also stay in the house or just go along with him leaving and call this over? Once he is gone I am done trying. I can't take the pain anymore of him going and coming.

We are to leave for vacation with friends next week. We have bought tickets. He plans on going. How can I still go? What to do? please tell me. Give me your opinions. I love him but also realize how much work we need to do. I know our relationship hasn't been perfect but in my heart I don't feel we have done the work to repair it. Is that my delusion?

Experts, newcomers, all please help. Please give me advise and help me through today.

[jp787]

Does option B (mancave) work for you?

[Starsky309]

I think the "mancave" thing will be VERY confusing for your kids.

I also think you should let your attorney handle the financial and custody stuff. You're WAY too emotionally involved (understandably!) for you to try to negotiate those kinds of things with a man in your husband's current hell-bent-on-leaving state.


Starsky

[Accuray]

DFE,

I've only read your last post and not your whole sitch, but if it were me, I probably would not go on that vacation. It sounds like this situation is wreaking havoc with your emotions and I would think that taking that vacation with him would not be practicing good self-care.

WRT having him live in the basement:

Once he is gone I am done trying. I can't take the pain anymore of him going and coming.

How serious are you about that?

At the point you decide you're "done", you will need to grieve the loss of the relationship, rediscover yourself as a single woman, and at some point you will want to start dating again, as foreign as that concept may seem at this point.

Likewise, your H, if he is truly "DONE DONE DONE" will likely be interested in finding a new relationship at some point.

Having him live in the basement is going to be problematic for both of you with regard to moving your lives forward. The more contact you have with him on a daily basis, the more prolonged your grieving and healing process will be.

If you are willing to tolerate continued limbo because you have not given up hope and still choose to "stand", then allow him to stay in the house. (Most of your comments would lead me to believe this is really how you feel)

If you are truly ready to drop the rope and move on, then do NOT let him stay in the house, because it will hold you back and prolong your pain.

So really, it comes down to what do YOU want to do?

Acc

[DFE]

I'm done. Tonight I realized I don't know this man. He isn't the man I thought I married. I think I'm ready to drop the rope. We had a bad argument tonight and I haven't even called or text him to try to keep the peace. If he wants to fight and get attorneys involved I'm ready. I've been his doormat for long enough.

Our fight today was because I said I was ready to end it but didn't agree that I could remain friends. I was too hurt and angry. Well he didn't like that and declared war. It's ok he's making it easier for me to grieve the loss. I'm ready to move on. I just hope this feeling stays.

[DFE]

So I have officially accepted it's over. Wow did that take long. We've had a rocky road but the first time it happened he came back and said he was sorry and he would always say he was the happiest man alive. So blessed to have all he had. He of course doesn't remember any of that now.

I'm surprised at his hatred towards me. The things he says to me makes it clear there is no saving his marriage. Wow how people and relationships can change. Surprisingly I'm ok. Tired of the fight. Looking forward to the other side. It can't be worse than this side. Makes me wonder if he ever loved me and why he married me. It all changed after we got married. I'm sad but all I can do is move forward. Enough limbo.

Because of my fear of change and letting go I have been stuck in limbo. Maybe there is a plan for me. One foot in front of the other.

[Starsky309]

You will be okay, DFE. I know it's scary now, but I suspect that -- with some time -- you will be much HAPPIER, even.


Starsky