wife denies the affair

[leaving]

25yearmlc, I'm actually a very forgiving person. I did snoop, it did not consume me, I did it for a few days. the funny thing is my W was going through my phone in the bathroom, she locked the door and went through. I had no problemwith it. Sh ekeeps hers locked, since I have been on the boards, I don't ask her where she goes, who she talks to, who calls her or who text her, she usually tells me, volunteers the information. When My phone goes off she always ask who are you texting etc.. I tell her when she ask.

Today I got a text from google with a new code for email account, I'm sure it was w. I have know problem sharing my email etc.

[leaving]

25yearmlc, I read your post ten times. First her son, I met this boy when he was 8 years old. remembered hanging out with him in his room watching this kid whaleon guitar hero, he fantastic. I even told him. He wasn't a very talkative kid, to this day he still isn't. As our relationship progressed I noticed this boy was running the house, he was still sleeping in his mothers bed, watching t.v. till 10:30-11:30 on school nigts, seperate meals and and W doing his homework.

If I would spend the night he would bang on tedoor because he wasn't in his mons bed etc.. We eventually broke him of sleeping in her bed. My wback then said was the first man who showed any concern for him. As our relationship progressed he seem to distant himself, because he wasnt getting his way, when he would go to his fathers house he would come back really moody and we would have to adjust back to our home. He would play grand theft auto and all these killing games at 8years old at his dads. This boys only passion was video games. I would take him outside for biking, playing catch and I even would do squirt gun fights with them, being my Daughter. All this stuff was short lived andhe didn'twantto do anything, except video games, I even played video games withhim. I an only play for so long, He would play from time he gets up until he goes to bed. I addressed these concerns with W and she would enforce the rules for a little bit and give up, I backed her up and enforced them. My wife was affraid he would wat to live with his dad and she would lose him. I tried a million things to connect with him, he just didn't want to. He respects me an if I ask him to do something he does it and sometimes he test he's 14 so I know that will come.

I can tell you he has been manipulating his mother for a long time. He still does and she says she knows it but her she is spending hours getting im ready for school, going over homework, organizing his planner, while he sits there playing on his i-phone as W gets stressed out. She threatens him to take it away but never does. When I say something about this, she says he needs help he has ADHD, he is on meds for it.

I love this kid, even went to counseling so we could find out what is going on. W stopped the counseling b/c she thought counselor was to mean with him, she just didn't tolerate his behavior and new he was manipulating. I find out by W he isalot like his father very moody etc..which is fine. I actually stopped any discipline because W wanted me to. Now all I do is hey buddy you might want to listen to your Mom after she called him 5 times to come to her.

Step son did tell me he wants his mother all to himself.
were there times I got frustrated absoultely, just like I get frustrated with my daughter at times. Did I handle things always right not at all, parenting you learn as you go.

I have racked my brain on trying to have a relationship with him. I even try to just chat with him on what he likes, and he just never opens up. I believe he may feel he is betraying his father if he has a friendship with me. I have read articles that it can take as long as 20 years for a step child to finally except you.

W has told me that this is a major issue and I have ben trying to figure this one out. He is the first kid who has put up a wall with me, I usually attract kids with my sill behavior. I'm going to be silly again and see if that works.

[leaving]

before I came home last night, stopped off at meijer and bought my W this little easter chic that lights up the rubber gooy kind.

I came home, went into the bedroom and told her, Wife, I brought home this chic and she is lonely, I said your not mad she says no in a odd voice like what is he talking about, I then said she will give you good company and fun, I then said her she is I give it to her flashing she starts laughing saying to me your
your funny and where did you get this, still laughing, she said thank you, she even said the last time you gave me a farm animal I ended up marrying you. On our first date I told her a friend of mine was stopping up and she got real concerned, I let this go on for about an hour and then I made her look the other way and said oh her he is and put pig pez candy dispencer on the table and she looked and just laughed and told me that was sweet etc.. the rest is history.

I then gave her a back massage and she let me touch her back butt massaging it, with out a problem and this has been going on this whole time she dropped the bomb. When I was done she tells me Thank you and you can sleep in the bed tonight for giving me a massage, I actually laughed and I mean I thought it was funny and I told her I always appreciated when she makes me laugh. I wasnt laughing at her I truly thought it was funny.

About an hour goes by and she seems to be tossing and turning, so she got up and went to sleep in the other room, Not sure what to make of that.

I use leave her little notes around the house put them in her car etc.. and yes that stuff faded as we got busy with kids work etc. I took her for granted by not being there for her, emotionally and I'm know I just did't just listen to her, I know I try to fix it for her, I drank to much, I just need to be a better person and stop being selfish, I really know what I have done wrong in this M, even When it was happening, I just felt like zi will never make he happy, so I withdrew myself at times, and then I would do nice things for her and she wouldsee it, and then pattern would start over, so now I know why she is afraid of my changes.

I do notice when I pulled yesterday she was blowing my phone up, but when I give her attention she takes it. so if i withdrew in the M and if I withdraw now isnt that more of the same? and if I do what I did last night isn't that pressuring persuing?

[leaving]

Maybe my wife feels she can fall back on me at anytime, do I need to make myself less available, because it sure looks she drew me right back in, by setting me up with back hurts, she wasn't expecting the chic though. LOL. I give her back massage, fed her some affection. Wife did tell me she is a very needy person. I'm just confusing myself.

[25yearsmlc]

I'm not. I told w. I am responsible for 50% of the issues in M



Stop this^^^ asap. This is 1) NOT accurate and 2) NOT helpful.

It's pure score keeping. And YOUR score card, is NOT hers. Trust me on that.

You think a woman in an active affair, believes SHE is half responsible for the state of the marriage? I highly doubt it. Lose the scorecard. It always hurts the marriage.

OWN ALL OF YOUR SHORTCOMINGS, 100% of them...they are YOUR flaws...

and say nothing about hers. First, NOW is not the time for you to be measuring her flaws and comparing...good grief.

Second, It's not your job to correct her or to tell her what her flaws are. You are the last person she needs to hear that from. It does not make you more attractive to her, OMG just the opposite. The OM makes her feel good about herself. You think your "half wrong, half right" theory helps?

That sentence just rubs so many WAWs the wrong way it's really a NO NO (per my DB coach as well). Model the changes you want to make in you, and let that be what she learns from IF she wants.


and it has caused her to go for affair, but I don't take responsible for her affair and our M can be restored.

I'm getting a little confused with different methods I need some help...advice I will follow it.

^^^That's your biggest problem, you are mixing approaches. If you want to use the other approach, go ahead.

But mixing these approaches always fails, b/c they contradict each other.

IT's very confusing and just not helpful. How would you know which part of what, is helping?

Make a choice and a plan and implement it. Don't keep mixing up the approaches.

The DB books says NOT to snoop. It also defines "exposure" as a spouse confronting the wayward spouse, and DB does not suggest it, but says it can, sometimes in certain situations, help.

But that would be an interaction between you TWO, not involving anyone else.

And there is no room for snooping. If I were concerned that my h was having an affair AND IF I KNEW IT WAS A DEALBREAKER, then I could see snooping just to confirm the affair, and then ending the marriage.

But snooping "just to know" and then to confront and hear a denial, and then snoop some more, to repeat the same "confrontation/denial", is NOT constructive.

This seems obvious to me. And I think it's part of why DB says not to do it.

It also makes reconciliation much harder and not just b/c of how it makes YOU feel. But how it makes the spouse feel....

No matter what you SAY, if you continue to snoop, it will NOT make your w feel that reconciliation is more likely....how could it?

[25yearsmlc]

before I came home last night, stopped off at meijer and bought my W this little easter chic that lights up the rubber gooy kind.

I don't know what this^^ means, (or most of the next paragraph below).

Just saying, I'm a bit lost here.


I came home, went into the bedroom and told her, Wife, I brought home this chic and she is lonely, I said your not mad she says no in a odd voice like what is he talking about, I then said she will give you good company and fun, I then said her she is I give it to her flashing she starts laughing saying to me your
your funny and where did you get this, still laughing, she said thank you, she even said the last time you gave me a farm animal I ended up marrying you. On our first date I told her a friend of mine was stopping up and she got real concerned, I let this go on for about an hour and then I made her look the other way and said oh her he is and put pig pez candy dispencer on the table and she looked and just laughed and told me that was sweet etc.. the rest is history.

I then gave her a back massage and she let me touch her back butt massaging it, with out a problem and this has been going on this whole time she dropped the bomb. When I was done she tells me Thank you and you can sleep in the bed tonight for giving me a massage, I actually laughed and I mean I thought it was funny and I told her I always appreciated when she makes me laugh. I wasnt laughing at her I truly thought it was funny.

About an hour goes by and she seems to be tossing and turning, so she got up and went to sleep in the other room, Not sure what to make of that.

Sounds as if she wasn't sleeping well. Read nothing into that. IT'd be mind reading. Don't bother. IF it is important or significant, she'll let you know.


I use leave her little notes around the house put them in her car etc.. and yes that stuff faded as we got busy with kids work etc.

You have to decide if you are going to pursue her to win her back,

OR you want to detach and let her see your changes somehow, without pursuit,

OR going dim on her. IF she is saying she notices your changes for the better, then you tell me, what is working and what is not?

I can't get an accurate reading on her behavior yet.


I took her for granted by not being there for her, emotionally and I'm know I just did't just listen to her, I know I try to fix it for her,

that OFTEN comes off as a form of criticism of the wife, as if the h cannot believe she is stumped by the problem b/c HE can solve it with two sentences or a 10 second "solution"...

OR when a h says "w, you say X is bothering you at work? Tell him you'll quit the job if he won't shut up", as if the thought had never occurred to her. Telling someone off is usually NOT the solution anyhow but more importantly

To the wife, it ends up sounding like her h is saying "I gave you the solution so stop talking about it now. Since I solved it for you, now let's talk about MY favorite subject..."

In short, it comes off more like a "okay shut up now" than any loving suggestion. Sometimes we simply want to be heard and supported emotionally. Not fixed...


I drank to much,



Drinking too much is a big deal. It's not merely the act of drinking itself. That looks bad enough.

Drinking too much means you are less available for intimacy (the more enjoyable kind), less available to help with the children or the home or yard, and a pretty mediocre (at best) role model for the children...it means hang overs the next day, which affects your behavior and relationships.

It seeps into so many things other than merely being in the chair looking mentally absent.

My dad was a brilliant, educated, hard working alcoholic. He never lost his job and our bills were paid and when he was sober, he was a good dad. But he got drunk every night for 15 years and that ruined a lot of family memories. It permeated every holiday...every single one.


I just need to be a better person and stop being selfish, I really know what I have done wrong in this M, even When it was happening, I just felt like zi will never make he happy, so I withdrew myself at times, and then I would do nice things for her and she wouldsee it, and then pattern would start over, so now I know why she is afraid of my changes.


consistent changes + sufficient time = changes she can believe in.

I do notice when I pulled yesterday she was blowing my phone up, but when I give her attention she takes it.


I don't know what this^^ sentence means.


so if i withdrew in the M and if I withdraw now isnt that more of the same? and if I do what I did last night isn't that pressuring persuing?

I can't tell what is helping and what is not, and I cannot tell partly b/c I don't understand your comments. Just curious, is English your second language?

If not, maybe you can write a bit more specifically, so I know what "blowing a phone up" means. I have teenagers but I asked and none of them have heard that phrase unless it means someone using up minutes...

The more she denies the A, imo, the better. Would you prefer her admitting it and saying "I LOVE OM"??

B/c that's what your pushing her about it, could lead to. It's a lot like demanding an answer from her, that you don't really want to get.

[leaving]

25yearsmlc, I picked up a toy easter chic that lights up from meijer last night. I came home with it and told her I brought home a chic because she was lonley, so I thought the chic would give you some company, I created some suspense with this chic coming over to our house. I then said her she is an I gave it to her and it was flashing and she started laughing and told me that was sweet etc.. She then told me the last time I gave her a farm animal she married me. I did something like this when we first met, with a candy pig pez dispenser, she loved it back then. I was using my sense of humor. I believe it went over well.

She was blowing my phone up with text and calls when I didn't answer it right away yesterday. It seem like when I pull away she wants to pull me back in.

When she tells me she notices my change, she tells me its like I'm some new man and she even called me fantastic. I was giving her attention affection, affermation, helping around the house, listening more to her. When she would talk about the M, I would just listen and show empathy etc.. I did notice thats when she noticed my changes. I stopped drinking completely. I even tell her if she would like an extra hour of sleep, I would drive step son to school. I have actually helped out with this more. I even get up in the morning just to talk with her about anything. I even talk to my DB coach chuck who said the same thing that its ok to persue her some. When ever she talks about my shortcomings I tell her she right I did take her for granted by doing XYZ etc.. I still do it. I'm trying to remember how I was when we first met. I had the more I don't care attitude until she won my heart over which didn't take to long. She has this personality that just draws you in. We did everything together, she loved riding on my Harley. I gave her alot of attention. I'm trying to really figure out how to break the ice with step son.

For example last week W forgot her lunch at home and she asked if I could bring it to her, I brought it to her, I put a card in her lunch box it said on the front "the small things in life make the big things in life" Inside I wrote "W Have a great Day with smiley face, love H". I left and about 2 minutes later she called me, saying that was really sweet of you. She then asked me if I felt uncomfortable at her work I said no. When I dropped the lunch box off to her, she appeared to want to hug me but she hesitated and didn't. She then said she hates the this lobby. We ended the conversation and then ten minutes later she called me back. She said to me she didn't know what to think of the card I gave her and she then started telling me how she just wants to run away from all of this and just go with her heart, being alone etc.. I told her I understand why she would think this way. She then had to get back to work.

So it does seem she likes when I do nice things like this, however it looks like she gets cold feet or is it a test.

The next day I tried to stay dim and she had mentioned to me she didn't here from me all day and its funny how you get me a card the day before and the next day nothing.

She has told me several times she is confused and has asked my why are you doing this now and that it makes her angry about my changes. I continue to be this way. I just need to figure out a plan and some balance with this

[25yearsmlc]

Why do you say you have to "balance this"? If it's working, and it seems to be giving her second thoughts, (Which is great) then keep at it. Is it really that hard to be nice to her? I mean, where is it "costing" you?

Also, I didn't know you were being coached by Chuck. I would NEVER tell you to Not do what a DB coach says to do. They have all the facts; we don't.

If you are mixing approaches, why bother with a coach? If you have a coach, follow their advice. I had a DB coach and her words always always helped. She was a Godsend.

I hope you'll stick with what Chuck says, b/c the coaches are very good at this, better than just cherry picking advice.

The "rules" for newbies are guidelines and are really meant for those who don't have a coach, and are more in line with "until you get better help, this is a GUIDE"....but you DO have better help, i.e. Chuck.

I'm really glad you have him. You want your w to doubt herself.

Also I found that if my h revised the marriage a LOT, which he did, but if there was ANY truth to it and he'd been hurt, I had say things like "H, I'm sorry that hurt you. If I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently".


and if he said something I could swear was a lie or just did not happen the way he said, I'd say "Wow, h I sure don't remember it that way but I'm sorry if you were hurt. IF I had it to do over again, there are many things I'd do differently"..

Neither approach escalates and both statements show change on OUR end.

The WAS has to know WE are working on ourselves b/c

the only way they will return to the marriage,

is IF they believe marriage to us can be better/different than before.

It's up to us to SHOW that, with actions not words.

Make sense?

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Stop snooping, please.

And consult Chuck if you can't wrap your brain around what I'm telling you.

Seriously, you need to tell him what you have said HERE...to process it. B/C it has to stop.