GAL plans this weekend. What's up guys?

[Mic]

Wow reading what your wives are doing I realized I did a number of these things the last few years of my marriage to my H. I would either tell him that morning where I was going with the kids or just not invite him. Horse stuff was always a priority. Did not realize how much that must have hurt him. In the wishing I could change time space.
Men what is important to you in a marriage?

[Barrybran]

Everyone is different but I wish I KNEW I was a priority to my wife rather than have my wife assume I know it. I don't expect her to live in my pocket but I do expect (when times are good again) her to make time for me like she does for work, friends, her phone, etc.

[25yearsmlc]

I'm not getting my main point with you, across. Here goes a last attempt.

I believe You mind read and it's at her expense, or the expense of any possible positive spin. I understand you THINK that having such a skeptical view somehow protects you from bad things (yet you carry hopeful expectations with you on a daily basis, then complain that they were not met), which undermines any self protection you may have had, AND being negative does Not protect us.
It does not ward off bad things. If it makes any difference at all, it's bad for you b/c it ruins your "now" since you fear the other shoe will drop BECAUSE or WHILE you are happy, so you can't let yourself have fun or joy...You can't be happy or grateful today, b/c of your fears about tomorrow.

Secondly, negative projections/expectations really can bring about the very thing we fear losing the most. Like men/women who are terrified of being abandoned, so then they get too possessive or paranoid and mopey, and end up being a drag...so they get abandoned! Then they say "See? I was "right" to be so negative!!

The irony of your signature phrase is being lost.

Please allow me to cross through things you have NO control over AND OR places where you mind read again, or project...

No she doesn't speak of divorce, she's not that direct...about anything. And anything she does say will go in circles as she runs away when you try to talk.

But her priorities speak very clearly that she's not interested.

For example the time we had lunch was quite a merry go round of times and dates. She's with her friends and has plans any night of the week. Weekends are booked as well. Lunch is possible, but she's too busy any day except this one day. Why?


Because she IS busy. She's trying to GAL big time. You should try some of that.
Also, you must must, Lose the scorecard. You seem to measure everything and your 'measuring cup' is skewed. (FYI< our spouses have their own scorecards and measuring cups. On their card, WE are way behind them...hence the need to get rid of the scorecard b/c they'll never match and they are destructive to marriages)...

When a good thing happens to HER, you feel it's unfair to YOU...

but it's NOT a contest. Her happiness level is not your "Misery Index". Plus you project happiness and galavanting on her end, so it's not even necessarily accurate.

But IF her car breaks down, it's not a "good" thing FOR YOU, right? So then why is her apparent, presumed contentment, negating anything in your life?
Who is responsible for your happiness?

(I know that you know you're supposed to say you are responsible for your happiness, but I wonder if you actually believe that...do you? Or, down deep, do you really believe that SHE is responsible for everything going on in your life?)

I see too much commentary from you, seething with resentment about her "happiness" b/c you are not happy... Man, that's so Not attractive or helpful to your situation at all... So again, I urge you to Lose the scorecard for your sake, and everyone else's.

If my h did that to me, now, post DBing, I'd be polite, act upbeat and THANK HIM for modeling the GAL for me so well.

That's the new improved me, not the old me, who would resent him for enjoying life when I felt miserable, b/c HEY if it does not make ME HAPPY then no one ought to be happy...


It's not a priority. Her friends are a priority. Partying, clubbing, Caribbean holidays with her friends, these are a priority. Trust me, she has lots of time for them; she'll reschedule things with me for them and time with them is carved in stone.


So you have proof she has never cancelled an event with them? You can prove she only, always, cancels with you??

So, if she cancels, then stop making plans with her. Why are you lunching anyhow? I mean, I don't think she's prioritizing her friends over you, so much as avoiding you. There's a difference.

Tell me why you believe she'd want to avoid you. Meaning, what is there to avoid by having lunch with YOU? Could it be something such as your anger, or neediness, or trying to guilt her, or an argument you have had many times before, maybe??

What if you told her you are happy that she is finally getting a chance to explore all the things she wanted to, but did not get a chance to, due to becoming a mom so young? I mean, after she picks up her jaw from the floor, what do you think it would reveal to her, about YOU?

(I Think it would be a big 180, if you really meant it...)

What if YOU were too busy next time she asked you to lunch?
Correction, has SHE invited you to lunch? Are these invitations From you, to her, which she is avoiding? It makes a difference.


I recently made the mistake of asking her if she'd be interested in spending a few days alone together. She said no, she'd like to but she doesn't have enough vacation days this year.


This^^ was a self inflicted wound, and I see nothing wrong with your w's polite refusal. She MAY have made up a white lie to protect your feelings. That's not bad of her; it's courteous and sensitive.

But for you to be in pursuit mode "recently," means you are not listening to the approach here. Did you really read the Div Busting or Div Remedy book??

I'm not trying to be a witch here, but I need to know if you simply don't agree with DBing, or don't get it, or have not read it, OR if you are mixing in different approaches.

It's best not to mix them b/c you never can tell what exactly worked and what exactly failed. Besides, although Div Busting is simple in that it's a solution based approach, it's also radically different than most other marital approaches, b/c they tend to go backwards in time, re-hashing battles and long simmering resentments, which usually builds to an angry conclusion about who is more at fault...

You cannot blame DBing for failing if you fail to DB.

Not too long later, guess who asked me to watch the kids an extra couple of days in March so she can go to the Dominican Republic with her friends? One of them found a good price and they all decided to go and she can't pass it up. Those are her priorities.

She did not want to spend time alone with YOU. That isn't about her "priorities" nearly as much as it is about who she wants to spend time with now.
It does not make her selfish or unkind, b/c she's being clear about boundaries with you. You don't like her boundaries. They hurt you and I understand that. But I don't find them vague or rude or selfish. At least not this one.


And when you do talk to her, she's a master of avoiding any sort of important conversation. She'll say something that's important, I'll follow up on it. I'll try to get her to explain further and understand but as soon as I try, she does the verbal version of a squid spraying ink to run away from a predator.

First, Stop the SVONing...(Swirling Vortex Of Negativity) with her. "Master of avoiding any important conversation..."

which YOU determine?? Only to say in the next sentence, "SHE'LL say something important"....

so she's NOT avoiding it! But you press for more

(& I'd bet 10-1 you make a remark that comes off as an argument from you, or an attack on her, so she shuts down again. I can tell this from your tone HERE)

Back off for real. What are you doing that is a 180?

She has a lot of friends and it's NOT b/c she's a jerk.

The real journey in life, is an inward one. What would you like to change in YOU?
Are any of her complaints about you, in any way, valid? (99% of us would answer 'yes' to that, so don't feel defensive.)

We are/were all trying to get the one upside out of this ORDEAL, out of our sad and infuriating experience...

and that "upside" is the personal journeys we take, leading us to becoming our best selves. We then discover that our best selves are our happiest most loving selves.

And man, if you then reconcile or have another r someday, it's a lot deeper.

Final comment:

At a mc, the BEST news YOU can get, is that YOU are the "wrong" one....

How can that be true?

B/c if you arrive at a MC's or therapist's office and they tell you, "2, you were and are a great, perhaps even perfect h. Your w is completely wrong to feel and do as she is..."

What does one do with that?^^^^ IT means you are powerless!

When 3 different MCs' told my h to his face that he was being "Selfish", "acting as if he were single", "not prioritizing his family", he told me to my face that I had 'Brain washed" the MCs.

B/C I'm a L, I "make them think h is wrong"...

Being "right" got me nowhere. The best news I got was from my own T, who later became OUR MC, when he suggested I handle things differently. He was a fan of DBing by the way.

When I finally found things in myself I wanted to change (not hard to find, but very hard to decide to look within, b/c blaming h was easier, much much easier...),

I found traits I admired inside me and I worked to hone them, but I found some significant character flaws (defensiveness, resentment, the desire to "teach h a lesson" which I TOLD MYSELF was about "fairness/justice", but was really me being punitive to h)

I saw things in me I did NOT want there. I worked hard to identify and eradicate those things, traits of mine not too charitable and then I sometimes had to replace them with new positive behaviors & thought patterns.

I highly recommend a TED Talk (youtube or Netflix) by Scott Achor and or Amy Cuddy, (2012 series) b/c they discuss how WE can make ourselves feel better and think better and literally create happier lives for ourselves. Their suggested actions are ALL dependent on our own actions...which means ALL of that is within our control!

THAT^^ IS EMPOWERING... I don't mean to say own all problems. But

when a counselor (or spouse), or friend, tells you about a flaw in you, you can deny/deflect and deride them for being "so critical", and gain nothing...

OR you can "do the 'Reconnassaince work', take it in to examine, decide if there is any validity to it and if you want to work on it.

See that as a GIFT, towards becoming the best you, that you can be.

Become a man only a fool would leave.

Once you make this^^ journey and then you become the best man you can become, then you turn your marriage over to God.

Then you can hold your head high, knowing you really gave it your best and you really are the man you always wanted to be, & you leave it in His hands.

Then, be at peace, regardless of outcome b/c the real outcome already happened. You became the new best you.

Divorce busting is mostly about US doing work to become better people,

and So, we save ourselves...sometimes that means our marriages and families get saved along with us.

[25yearsmlc]

Everyone is different but I wish I KNEW I was a priority to my wife rather than have my wife assume I know it. I don't expect her to live in my pocket but I do expect (when times are good again) her to make time for me like she does for work, friends, her phone, etc.

What would she have to do or say, so you could "KNOW" you are a priority?

Have you told her ^^this?

In the past, what efforts did you make to create that time with her?

Did you plan all/most/some or any dates or vacations or nights out for her?

Or did you leave it up to her? OR??

[Barrybran]

I don't want to hijack 2S2Q's question; I was just answering Mic's question. I'll be as concise as I can:

- Plan/suggest activities for us herself OR say something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I'm really busy right now but let's do something together in the next couple of weeks";
- Yes;
- I made suggestions to go and do things. At the time I saw it as rejection but now I understand I may not have been suggesting things that she wanted to do;
- I didn't plan anything for her; only events for us. If she wanted to go out without me she'd organise her own activities with her friends;
- Left it up to her.

[paul19510]

Wow reading what your wives are doing I realized I did a number of these things the last few years of my marriage to my H. I would either tell him that morning where I was going with the kids or just not invite him. Horse stuff was always a priority. Did not realize how much that must have hurt him. In the wishing I could change time space.
Men what is important to you in a marriage?

Hi Mic, my W's horses are her priority. Over me and the kids. before that it was other things. me and the M never were. I wanted to spend time and rekindle our friendship. We didn't. Our C called it a tree and said we needed to water and nurture it. over the past few years, I told her, we're not watering the tree. It needs it or it will wither and die.

In the final weeks of living together, I told her my arms were breaking from carrying the water buckets. I wanted help. She refused. More time at the barn and with horse friends. it really can be addictive.

Now she spends all of her spare time there and lives apart from us. Me and the kids are slowly detaching. I filed for D this week due to looming financial issues (mostly due to spending on equestrian stuff) and a need to separate us formally in order to protect me and the kids.

I don't believe that my W will ever see this for what it was...I could be wrong (I know its mind reading...but venting at the moment).... Long time friends even backed away over the past couple of years due to it. Its a shame really.

I can tell you that W hangs with a crowd that I know. the 4 people she's been hanging with are all equestrian and all 4 have M on the brink of D (W +3 others currently separated). The 5th person is the W of a friend. I spoke with him and he said their M is now straining over the constant influx of H bashing the other 4 are doing (including my W).

I'm not sure any of this really helps you, but, I think I just vented the other side.

Good luck with your situation. I look forward to reading your thread.

[LFC1170]

25,

APPLAUSE: APPLAUSE:

Are u a therapist...or did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?

[melissag]

LOL, LFC!

And great post, 25. Every time I see one of your posts (even if it's not on my own thread), it makes me think, and usually press the reset button on a couple of things.

[Mic]

Hi Paul9510
Thanks for letting me know. I do know one of our issues my H stated was he felt I had/am having an emotional affair with our farm and I did admit once that I loved the farm more than him. Did not mean it but was admitting at one point if I had to choose I would have chosen the farm. Ironically I am losing both now and am in the process of placing the majority of our animals/some of the horses and closing out my horse business. He actually has stepped up and is paying for all of the horse stuff I just sent him an email thanking him for being patient with me while I dismantle the business and place the horses. Sad thing is he is nicer and treating me better than he has in a long time. I know too little too late but I am seeing how I greatly disrespected him on so many issues.
One of my friends recently said "but you made a difference in the lives of so many children and helped save so many animals lives" I said yes I did but at the expense of my most important relationship (outside of God) If I would have nurtured my marriage the way I nurtured the farm I probably would not be here. Ironically when we first got married I wanted that farm more than anything so we went into debt for my husband to buy it for me and now it was one of the major items that caused our marriage to collapse.
I do agree that many women that get involved with horses are single or are on the brink of divorce. I wonder why that is?
Thanks
It is nice to hear the other perspective (from the man's point of view)

[LFC1170]

I don't know if it's horses or any obsession that interferes with a relationship in general. It could be horses, cars, drugs, alcohol, sports, videogames, anything.

It's like the woman who marries the homicide detective in a crime filled area then divorces him 'cause he's never home. HUH?