GAL plans this weekend. What's up guys?

[nit84]

MrBond,

Everyday, you keep it real for me and keep me from getting down on my sitch and having a Self-pitty party. Thank you!!

[25yearsmlc]

I guess the title says it all. She still hasn't made any moves towards a D but hasn't come the other way either.


No, this^^ does not say it all. Before I go further, btw, it would help ME so much if you could stay on one thread b/c I can't follow your story or situation when there are at least 6-10 threads you begin and then end. Also PLEASE put a signature block with info (profile provides this) and summarize Length of marriage, number of kids, when the cancer was and when the BD was, so it'll again be easier to keep up with your sitch and give more targeted help.

Just saying, you'll get more and better advice if you make it easier for us to follow your story.

BUT HERE is what YOU WROTE your first time here...less than 5 months ago:


9-30-2013
The problem was I messed up at the end. I walked her to the door and as she was leaving I hugged her, told her I loved her. Bad move. She kissed me on the cheek, told me she loved me too but something felt insincere about it.

To be honest this is a rotten dance I'm tired of playing. I'm miserable and lonely while she seems to be partying with her friends and having a grand old time. I'm currently torn between writing her off and being patient. It's only been 3 weeks now since she left but it's just so hard. I'm ok if I don't see her for a few days but it's a big downer after I see her.

3 weeks into this, you thought about quitting. 3 weeks into this, you were assuming she was out partying with her friends and having a grand old time. SHE never told you so, you assumed the worst of her at nearly every moment. You also really gloss over the role you played in this.

Here is a "secret" that is not really a secret:

She will Not return to the marriage to you unless

she believes marriage to you will be better/different than before.

So, what are You DOING to show her that?

You have to see her vis a vis the kids. So why not view each interaction as a chance to demonstrate thru actions (not words, not telling her) that you are a new improved man?


I'm curious if other people have felt this duality of goals? For those of you who were able to win their spouse back, how long did it take? In what length of time should I be able to expect her attitude and affections to change if there's hope?


The duality of goals is also known as "limbo" to some, and a lot of ambiguity to others. YES it was a struggle for a long time. Like a heavy pendulum swinging from one end of my heart to the other...

When Gilda Radner faced cancer, she wrote of this inherent ambiguity b/c really, tomorrow is promised to no one. We marry for life but things change and we are sometimes left behind.

She wrote that she was not sure if the next spring she'd be with her h Gene Wilder trying to have a baby (which is how her diagnosis of cancer was made, fertility treatments)
OR Facing another round of Chemo

OR dead...she said that the ambiguity would make you insane if you stare at it that way and base ALL other important decisions and our happiness on which road life takes us.

She said to make each day count, and that type of thing, etc (the things we CAN control we should)

but that we all have to learn to accept and maybe even EMBRACE the inherent ambiguity life gives us (but which most of us are unaware of til something like this happens)

Not sure if that helps you but it helped me to know that others have faced it.

As for how long it took to "win back" my spouse. I did not 'win" him back.

I released him to his task. Then I contrasted our world here, with the world he was living in, by making sure THIS place was warm and loving...which evidently his new life, was not. I did nothing "to" his world, I merely focussed on mine here, with our children. I created a life here for them and myself, which was happy.

Turns out H missed that a lot...there was a lot to miss. THAT part, making it a home you'd miss, was within my control. What h did when he was not here, was not within my control. So i let go of it.

I came to see and truly believed in my heart of hearts, that no matter what h did, I would be alright and so would the kids. I wish I had "gotten" that earlier b/c I spent about a YEAR on what h was doing/thinking/saying/meaning and how unfair/selfish/irrational/wrong HE was...

before I realized I had nothing to gain by this^^, except more anger. And anger did not serve me or my marriage very well.

If you must, set an internal deadline in your head. A deadline that tells you if you don't see concrete signs of an improving r with her, then you'll file or sign or whatever giving up means to you.

But once I let go of my h fully, he began to call more often. Like every day (whereas before, it could be weeks between calls to ME at least)

and then more than once a day, "Begging" me to give him a chance to be the h I deserve, etc. I didn't like the word begging but it did stick out in my mind b/c h is a proud man.

We began piecing, and that was so so until we went to Retrovaille, which I recommend for ANY & ALL couples who are trying to get new tools for their damaged marriage.

Um no, in case you are wondering. Your w is NOT ready to hear about Retrovaille. Nowhere near ready. BUT if you are into personal growth and wanting to get some clarity in your life, try a workshop called Essential Experience (aka "EE") that many of us have done. Every one of us has called it 'Life changing"...

You don't have to have your partner with you for one thing, (b/c it's for the individual) and it'll help you gain clarity and get tools for any area of your life not working too well. Including how to GAL and communicate meaningfully with just about anyone.

It's in Philly but it's so worth it, I've flown in from Alaska to do it. And if you want, you can get free housing so all you need to do is pay for your slot, then get there and participate.

Like Div Busting, it's a solution based approach to problems, so it's not just re-hashing the past and there is NO keeping score.

I think score cards ruin marriages so often...



We aren't in contact for any reason other than when she gives me money to help with groceries...If I got rid of the house, that excuse would go away and there would be nothing.

1) stop being so negative. IT's a trait you admitted to having 5 months ago so I'd like to see SOME cognitive awareness of how negatively programmed you can sound...

2) I thought you had kids. Where are they? Don't you have to see her when you two exchange them? And so, SHE pays you? Why, if she has the kids? What is your job, versus hers?

I recall you saying Your work stressed you out and that you complained a lot to her and around her about it. Did you get a new job? Do you want to?


Out of the blue a couple days ago she sent me a message "took the kids to the Lego movie, it was funny and reminded me of you". That was it. I read that and immediately reminded myself it meant nothing and of course it didn't. She just remembered that I laugh really loud at the movies and I like going with the kids.

I've had a few aha! moments recently, all of which remind me that this marriage wasn't what I thought it was and it's not going to be right again. I married for love, she married because she needed someone at the time.


This^^^ is me crossing out your negative "stinking thinking" that projects/predicts or assumes what others are thinking, & also you are revising the marriage now, as she has likely done. That does not help and it negates the joy your kids brought you. Can I hear something about them??

On Thursday I go to the head office at work to meet the CEO and receive an award for a project I took part in. It's a great moment for me and will help me move up in my career. I've spent the last few days moping because when I come home, no one will be there to talk to about it. There'll be no one to show.

Can you get a family member or friend or your children to come? I got a medal in the Army and a promotion and was holding our infant daughter (after the medal was pinned that is). IF NOT, then plan a celebration with your kids. Order pizza and BRAG about "daddy's prize that we are celebrating"...

and no matter what, pat yourself on the back b/c that job sounded pretty awful before. But now you are getting an award. Well done!



If she was still around, I don't think she'd be interested anyway. This is not the kind of support I gave when she had opportunities.


more negative thinking projecting and predicting on YOUR part. WHY??? IT's self inflicted pain. FROM you, TO you.

I've spent the last few years sacrificing so much time and energy to make her happy, it never worked. I since learned that while I was running myself ragged for her, she was with her friends talking a mountain of smack about me and how I'm no good, always late, never do anything right.


I hope you really do have an AHA moment b/c when you do, THIS^^^ type of c.r.a.p. should stop. IT really reeks of someone being a Swirling Vortex Of Negativity ("SVON") and you don't want to be a SVON! So NOT fun to be around. Your w needs to feel relaxed around you so you can be in the same room and then she has to start feeling like you could co-parent with her...

and then she needs to feel like you could be a real friend to her and then the love that I believe is there, underneath all the resentment SHE has felt and the FEARS SHE HAS that YOU WILL REVERT to your old ways of the many complaints you once admitted to uttering too much of, and then she'll be sad again...SO IF She can get past that and learn to be around you and relaxed a bit, then you build on that..

Trust me on this, your anger is getting you nowhere good. It's making you stuck and bitter. Instead of becoming a man only a fool would leave, which should have been your goal,

you are just getting more righteous and angry. NOT helping you or the kids....

She also recently told me that I never got to know the real her. She's herself around her friends but was never that person with me.


IF reconciling were your real mission, this^^ would be considered "INTEL" for reconnaissance. You'd have said "Really W? What do you mean? Tell me more" and find out what she really means. What did she need that she did not get. What specifically could YOU DO DIFFERENTLY?? ...and then when she says she could never be herself with you, you say

"W, I'm sorry you felt that way. If I had it to do all over again, I'd do lots of things differently"...

that shows you are changing and see the need for it, it validates her feelings and does not escalate anything NOR does it make you a doormat.

Seems to me you are trying to make this about how Wrong SHE is, and how right you are. Do you want to be "right" or happy? Lose the scorecard.

Let's face it, I'm single again. I don't know how else to say this, she's gone. Life's too short, she didn't want to live this lie anymore and I need to move on as well.

This is very hard, I don't want to do this but I have to or I'm going to lose it. Apologies if I sound like a quitter but I'm a person too.

If you can't go on, you can't. Only you decide that. I DO Suggest you watch a film on Netflix called "Stuck In Love" before you decide...


It's not just because she gets to run in circles with excuses ranging from midlife crisis, I'm just a friend, I'm depressed, I have no passion for you, etc. etc. that I have to sit in this miserable cloud and wait for her majesty to maybe decide I might not actually be a horrible a-hole.

^^^... enough said....same tone you had 5 months ago. What are your 180s?

The recent episodes where she wanted to ML but only at a hotel is insulting. In hindsight, it shows she just needed some and I was willing to give it.

As BOND pointed out, which I second, this^^ was NOT an insult. Period. You HAVE To remove your negative "SVON" glasses and stop seeing the world thru such a dark lens. Honestly it's a huge turn off for me.

And on that note, let me tell you what a TURN ON would be. You being the best father ever, would be great. I would like to hear SOMETHING about your children -or their pain- or the joy you feel with them...and then I'd remind you that no mother is unmoved by the loving interactions of her child(ten) with their dad.



Does anyone have any book they recommend to help a person move on with their lives and prep for divorce? Not the legal issues, I know that has to be discussed with a L. This is just really hard and I could use some perspective on the decision to do this.

Perspective? See my signature block? 2 years, with an internal time line of d1's high school graduation. I figured if we were not reconciled or piecing by then, I'd file for a divorce. OR I guess I could have renewed a new deadline, but I think in truth, that Without this site and my DB coach and a great MC, (which was unusual) I would be divorced.

In 2006 I wrote that "my m has a 10% chance of succeeding..."

so there you go.
.

[2stubborn2quit]

Thanks for your input everyone, much appreciated. Truthfully, I don't have it in me to wait on her anymore, I really don't. I'm living my life now and I don't recognize her in it anymore.

Perhaps it seems like it only just started, but were approaching a year since the time she decided she was going to stop talking to me. It was a few months of silent treatment followed by a separation which she wanted. It hurt a lot. I'm not hurting anymore, but I'm not in love like I was once either.

I'm not acting as if anymore. I'm sad about it but I'm pretty much single again.

I'm pretty sure jerseymama is referring to her recent decision to let her WAS move on with his life and she did the same. As I recall you were seeing someone Jersey? What's been happening?

[25yearsmlc]

2,

read my post again please. And can you give some answers to the many questions asked?

I actually asked them for YOUR benefit and I think you may even get something out of just having to ponder what I asked...

[2stubborn2quit]

25, just saw your post. We don't see each other at the exchange. Each Friday after school, we alternate who picks up the kids and have them for the week. It's 50/50. She helps me with this because there are a lot of debts. She makes more because of her side business. She ruined my credit rating just before leaving and now I can't consolidate debts. We decided I'd stay in the house since we can't buy our own anyway, she's renting a place. After a few months, a certain expense came I can't avoid so she's helping me.

I'll check out that movie.

My 180s have been letting her have her space. I've been catching up on the things I've held off on when we were married. I'm learning to cook very well, taking all kinds of lessons, making friends of my own, living my life. I was always available when she wanted to talk bit she doesn't really want to.

Perhaps I sound whiney. Maybe getting the lawyers involved isn't productive. I'll just live single seeing as that's how I feel right now.

[25yearsmlc]

Okay...so,
When was the cancer, how old are the kids and how are THEY Doing? How long were you married and how old are each of you?

[2stubborn2quit]

Cancer was 9 years ago, kids are 9,14. My step kids are 19 and 24.

We've been married 14 years.

Eldest is ok, she's in her own apartment and visits regularly

19yo SS lives with me full time. He's as ok as he'll be, he's always had emotional issues but he's calmed down quite a bit the past few months.

Younger kids are doing well. We worked a lot together t make sure they'd be ok and

I talk with them about stuff. They're ok…they obviously want us back together but they're functioning at school and playing week with friends.

[2stubborn2quit]

I'm 38 , she's 41

[melissag]

2S2Q, I am going to jump on the bandwagon here and say that you might want to back up a few steps and look at things through a different lens.

If you really are done, you're done. There is no shame in that.

But I am not sure that you are really done, vs. you are tired of this crappy situation.

If you think it's that you really are done, how do you know?

I can tell you from being there right now, that having filed for D has really only made me feel worse. I didn't have a choice but to file, but if I did, I think I would have waited quite a bit longer. Not because I have really any hope that my H and I will R, but because you just never know what might happen.

There is nothing keeping you from living the life you want to live right now. The only thing you can't do while still M is get married to someone else.

It can get tiring having hope, and having your expectations/hopes constantly dashed. I get it. Maybe just focus on yourself for a bit, and see what happens. Stop thinking about your M, and your W, and what she is thinking, and what's going to happen, and just live.

[trc2009]

2S2Q, I am going to jump on the bandwagon here and say that you might want to back up a few steps and look at things through a different lens.

If you really are done, you're done. There is no shame in that.

But I am not sure that you are really done, vs. you are tired of this crappy situation.

If you think it's that you really are done, how do you know?

I can tell you from being there right now, that having filed for D has really only made me feel worse. I didn't have a choice but to file, but if I did, I think I would have waited quite a bit longer. Not because I have really any hope that my H and I will R, but because you just never know what might happen.

There is nothing keeping you from living the life you want to live right now. The only thing you can't do while still M is get married to someone else.

It can get tiring having hope, and having your expectations/hopes constantly dashed. I get it. Maybe just focus on yourself for a bit, and see what happens. Stop thinking about your M, and your W, and what she is thinking, and what's going to happen, and just live.

I've found that being "tired of the situation" can impact both sides as well. My wife (WAS) just said the other day that it wasn't her final decision but she was leaning toward a divorce. She said she's just "done" with all of this uncertainty and wants to move forward one way or the other.

Of course I'm tired of it as well but I understand for the good of myself & my kids, I need to just deal with it for the sake of the family. Because I can't expect her to make a rational decision. That's part of the reason I'd never agree to a dissolution. Because that would just make it be "done" for her when I still believe VERY MUCH that our marriage is salvagable. If she does want to be "done," she'll have to do the heavy lifting. She'll have to be the one to get (and pay for) an attorney. She'll have to be the one to file for divorce. She'll have to be the one to "find" grounds for divorce (good luck to her on that one).

2s2q. Nobody "likes" doing this. Everyone wants this to be over as quickly as possible and moving toward R. Everyone here has lost heart. Most of us do it routinely.

Obviously every situation is different. But I have two kids (5 & 2). The way I look at it is this. My wife is partially out the door. I am the one holding this marriage together, not her. If I give up, she'll give up. But in my situation, our kids will be much better off in the long term if we're together (my wife and I do care about each other and don't hate each other). And it's my job to do what's best for them regardless of the short-term pain it will cause me. I'm worried about the next 50 years for my kids (and their kids), not the next 12 months for myself.

Your kids are older so I can't completely relate. But you have a lot more positives going on than many of us here. If you act as defeated in front of your spouse as you did in this thread, I would imagine that your wife can see that as well. And no WAS thinks that's attractive.