So here's my story. I made some classic mistakes at the beginning, but bear with me, I think I'm becoming more enlightened.
Me:53, stay at home W44, D12, S8. T18, M13.
Aug 2013 W pours herself into a volunteer activity. She's out 3 or 4 evenings a week, plus all day Sunday. Some other volunteers quit, and she, being totally dedicated and not wanting to see the program fail picked up everyone's slack. So we aren't seeing much of each other. After 8 weeks no ML, I told her that I knew she was very busy, I admired her dedication, but I really missed her and could she prioritize "us" a little higher. She took this as me being selfish and demanding, which seemed like a strange reaction, so I asked if anything else was going on. "When would I have time?" That's not quite a "No." I let it go. We ML every couple of weeks after that, but it felt different.
October 2013 I notice texting is way up. She'll take texts in the middle of a dinner conversation. Turns phone away. Walks to another room to text back. Next, the phone is locked. Hmmm. This can't be good. I look at the bill. Yikes. An average of 40 texts a day to a guy who volunteers with her. I'm thinking EA. I start reading copiously on the topic.
Thanksgiving That night in bed she says that I never loved her. I didn't engage at that point but slept on it. When we woke up the next morning, I told her all the things I loved about her, listed the good times and tough times we had been through, and how kids gave me hope for future. She got up, locked the door and we ML - best in years.
Next day, endless texting again. I blow a gasket, confront re EA, take phone and insist that she unlock it. I look at OM thread, it's work related, but also half the messages have been deleted. Denial, denial, denial. I tell her I know, please stop deception. I decide to back off. She tells me she is seeing a therapist.
Mid December She is going to get license to go back to work. I only find out from a future job prospect. I am fully supportive, very congratulatory. We had always talked about her going back to work after kids were big enough. This is great!
Christmas eve At one point she says she doesn't feel she's accomplished anything with her life. Now I'm thinking MLC with EA.
Christmas sucked, I kept having feeling this would be the last one as a family. By now I've read DB twice, but I'm on my own roller coaster.
9 Jan 2014 She starts taking anti-depressants. Good, I think, but it will take a month or two to adjust dose and kick in.
10 Jan 2014 I find handbag in closet by garage with toys, lube, condoms, douches, and cell phone packaging. I say nothing. That evening, I notice bag has moved that day. OK full scale PA. I confront that night. Of course, the most ridiculous explanation and denial. My roller coaster takes a very sharp turn and picks up speed. No more delusion of a mere EA.
12 Jan I tell W the PA must end; cold turkey NC, suggest NC letter. Denial. I tell her I love her, won't abandon her, can forgive her and that I believe in redemption. We're both very strong people and can overcome anything if we put our minds to it. Just let me know when the PA over. I suggested couples therapy; she replied she had her own issues to work through before even thinking about that and to stop pushing her.
Looking back, definitely not the things I should have said, but at least I made my reconciliation position clear and maybe set a boundary. Now I go LRT, GAL, Sandi2's rules... (finally it's sinking in that I'm not dealing with a rational person) She's studying every night, so it's easy to give her space. I have offered to help her in any way I can with the material, and occasionally she takes me up on that.
15 Jan OM goes NC. She tells her girlfriend that I "took away the only thing she loved." So now I think I'm dealing with MLC, and withdrawal from PA. I'm just happy the PA is over, although she has never admitted it existed, so no, there's no remorse. Another bad sign.
22 Jan We have long conversation that is all anger on her part. I learn that everything I ever did was wrong. I am responsible for world hunger, poverty and global warming. She has totally rewritten history. I expect this response (believe none of what they say...) and try very hard not to invalidate what she is saying, but I can't quite pull it off. I tell her I cannot change the past, but can go forward with better understanding, best intentions and better communication. She says "Too little, too late." I'm slow, but now I realize I'm dealing with MLC, PA withdrawal, WAW. Oh did I mention the hysterectomy? A perfect storm. We are truly doomed.
25 Jan I fell off wagon, wrote her a note that said I heard her conversation, validated her points. I took responsibility for not recognizing her gestures made out of love, and that I had no excuses, and would be addressing my issues on my own to improve myself. Thanked her for sending the message loud and clear. Apologized for not getting it earlier. There was no reaction to this note. I didn't expect one, and maybe it's just good that there wasn't a negative reaction.
7 Feb She passed licensure exam. I got her a customized cake, flowers, congratulatory "hard work paid off" card. I figured that was obligatory and not pursuit. Kind of a 180 for me. I got a perfunctory thank you.
8 Feb I know she's shopping for an attorney. The D-word has never been uttered, but it's pretty clear the license and job is part of the exit plan, and she's getting her ducks in a row. Not that this is part of her thinking, but it will be a year before she can build up the funds to go - anything else would be financially devastating - she has no idea. We are both far from our family - there is no easy place for her to go, no quick cash source that I can think of. This is what bugs me most. I want very much not to wreck my kids lives, but have absolutely no control. Funny how you never give a second thought to trusting your spouse will always do right by the kids until they don't. I'm hoping she will give me the gift of as much of that time as possible. I know time is my friend.
So, I've completely backed off; LRT and Sandi2's rules. I realize that I can only work on me. I've been GAL, focusing on kids, making dinner on weekends (teaching D12 cooking techniques), and quietly doing as much around the house as I can. I'm enjoying my workouts tremendously. Nothing like a WAW crisis to help you lose weight! My roller coaster ride has pretty much stopped for now, and I know I'll be fine whatever the outcome and I'm looking out for my kids now. They need the attention - WAW is pretty much in hiding in the house.
I'm giving W as much space as I can - no advice, no judgement, no pursuit, no expectations. I know that she has to go through this journey on her own, and that her meds, end of PA and new career should all help her, but not necessarily make her look at me any differently. I also realize that our R that was is over. Amazing how different things were just 6 months ago. Detach, detach, detach. I am consigned to my role as Dad and the wallet.
It still hurts to hear her drag me through the mud with her friends on the phone, and tell them I never loved her. I have heard her say that she is done, she just can't get out yet. And as I see it, once you have kids, you can NEVER get out, which is why DR/DB, no matter how hard, has to be easier than D. But then I'm in the role of LBS here, and it's amazing how well defined the roles of LBS and WAW seem to be. And why do all girlfriends seem to push for D? Her BFF is in the middle of her 3rd D. Why would anyone go there for advice? (because she only wants validation, I know.) What kind of frieds are those? And the circle of people who know about A is growing. At what point does that fallout start to hit her? What about when some of her friends start thinking of her as a homewrecker? Maybe someone they don't want their husbands around any more?
We still sleep in the same bed every night and take meals together and put the kids on the bus in the morning together. Idle chit chat. Calls during the day are to the point. S8 isn't any the wiser. D12 notices mommy is terse. God, she'll be devastated when all this comes out. Thankfully we are very close.
I still cling to the hope that whoever W is now, her best characteristics are still in there. I believe I still love her, that this is just the "worse" in "for better or worse". I know that I won't be the one to throw in the towel any time too soon, because I know that just guarantees the worst possible outcome for all four of us. You know, this is a marathon, not a sprint, and all that. I guess it's still very early in the game for me, and of course, I have newbie impatience.
I also wonder, if a WAW hates you so much, why do they put so much time and effort into complaining about you to every girlfriend who will listen. Is it that they're looking to be talked into leaving? or out of leaving? Logically, I would just remove myself from the irritant. I know, I know -- Detach, detach, detach.
So to today's quandary. After a month of NC, OM made contact. Devastating setback. I was hoping that influence was gone. Thoughts of cake eating. Regardless of our R, getting back into A is not going to get W back to a long term stable healthy state. I just see my W on anti-depressants, taking sleeping pills to get through the night, and even still, I have heard her sobbing in her sleep. It just kills me.
Now I think I know the answer to this, and it's "her problem, not yours, so stop trying to control and just detach". Seems that everyone agrees that telling OMW about A out of revenge is bad, and OM's business isn't my business, but I have this overwhelming urge to remove the OM from the equation, perhaps with a simple text to him saying "You have a lot at stake." That doesn't bomb his M, but reminds him of the consequences. (as if he's an honorable guy who cares about consequences) I guess he would probably tell her, and she would hate me more, if that's even possible, for "taking away the only thing she loved". Several sites (like Harley) say that you should expose, expose, expose, because nothing good happens while that's going on.
I'm sure another bad idea would be to reassert the boundary with W. No conversation like that could go well.
Can someone talk me off this ledge? I really need to just back off, don't I. See, I knew I knew the answer.
So I really stepped in it last night. I broke Sandi2's rule #1. And I knew better, and I did it anyway.
After going to bed, something on the radio triggered me and the thought of cake eating took over. I gave her the "Infidelity is NEVER acceptable" speech. Told her she would never be at peace with herself and get off the pills if she re-engaged the OM. (What in God's name was I doing?)
Which led to her denial yet again, which led to me telling her that it was only a matter of time before news of the A spread and got back to D12.
Which led to her telling me again how she gave and she gave and she's done and it's all my fault.
Which led to me saying that even when you're "done", you have to decide what to do tomorrow. You could accept responsibility, learn from it and try to do better, or you could hold on to anger, destroy yourself and everyone around you.
And that my plan was to take the things she had told me, improve myself, but with the thought that one day we might converge and do an honest assessment of whether we could meet each other's needs.
At this point, I realize I'm adding bricks to the wall, and just trying to shut myself up. I mean, it's what I feel, but I know it's counterproductive.
I had been doing pretty well at detaching while I thought the OM was NC, but an active PA is a big red shiny button for me, apparently.
She slept in the guest room last night, but when I came back up from my early morning workout, she was back in our bed. She has a cold and stayed there in bed all day.
This detaching is hard, especially when you're in the same bed. And again, I think the only reason she is still there is that she is financially trapped right now.
I know this was a setback, who knows how it will manifest.
On the upside, she did mention that she noticed some of the things I have been doing to help around the house (but still too little too late), and I did pick up on some of my behaviors that I could work on or 180. That's me - looking for an upside to this massive screw up.
One of the things W said the other day - "You always complained about scratching my back." A couple of times a week, just as I am dozing off, she'll say "Scratch my back." And I'll say something like "Oh you and your itchy back", but then I'll always go ahead and scratch it for a while.
I gave this some thought, and let me explain it the way I would like to state it to W.
------ "You told me that I always complained about scratching your back, and it's true, and I did a lot of thinking about why that was. I guess in the beginning I didn't mind so much, but I realize that you never said 'Would you scratch my back?', or 'Please scratch my back.' If you had asked in that way, then I would have felt that I was doing you a favor or scoring some points, and I would have responded 'I'd be happy to scratch your back', or 'Of course I will'. I remember it always being presented as an order - 'Scratch my back.' - as if it were some task that I was just expected to do on command. I never remember a 'please' or 'thank you' and I grew to resent that, and that eventually manifested as "Oh you and your itchy back." I don't mind scratching your back, but the way you asked always set me off.
I also realize that I am guilty of exactly what I accused you of - internalizing a trivial nit until it grew into resentment instead of communicating it to you and resolving it. I am sure that if I had told you years ago how the command form of 'Scratch my back' bothered me, you would have changed how you asked, and I would be happily scratching your back instead of resenting the demand. Another Venus/Mars thing with a simple solution that was allowed to fester. When we communicate and listen, learning happens." ------
Now what can I do with this epiphany? Anything? Would sending it violate a rule because she really doesn't care why anymore? I'm sure there will be other things I realize as I sift through the things she has said. Do I save these up for a more appropriate time? Does that time ever come?
Thanks, OneDay. As I said, the script for LBS/WAW seems very common across threads. Detaching gets easier day by day, and all I can go on is that it is the best chance for a positive outcome.
What a wonderful site. I've spent hours here reading threads, and it seems there is so much common advice. - GAL, because I can ONLY control ME. - Detach my emotions/responses from current events - give space, provide stress free environment - listen, bite tongue, validate. bite tongue. STFU. - 180 with no expectation other than personal fulfillment - Act as if. not aloof, but confident. - there is nothing i can do to help her navigate her own tormented path. I can only work to be that quiet welcoming beacon on the horizon.
Sorry to find you here; I am new myself but have been lurking the boards for a while. You will find great advice and support here.
I also have a live-in, Semi-WAW. My bomb was dropped in July 2013 so we are on a close time line. We also sleep in the same bed and we still actually enjoy activities and such together; her "in-love feelings" are just not "there".
This wasn't the case initially. I did all the wrong things in the beginning too. She never mentioned getting a D, but there was a lot of "I need space" and "I just need to get away / I wish you would leave for a while" and "I don't think this is going to work anymore". It does take a while for the initial shock to set in and get the detachment going, but it does get easier with time and it not only helps you, but also her and the situation. Once my detachment and "smothering" actions stopped, things got better; she seems more relaxed and comfortable around me and I with her. We can now carry on conversations enjoyably together (i.e. work, news, family, home....I just stay away from R talk unless she initiates and then validate)!
I had to deal with an EA (no evidence of PA). It s*cks; EA's hurt just as bad! I also implemented NC; she agreed and as far as I can tell, she has kept her word. She may listen; she may not. You have stated how you feel about this and what is required. She will do what she is going to do; you can't control her. The only thing you need to ask yourself is this: Is the NC a hard Boundary? What are the consequences of continued contact / PA? Are you willing to follow through with the consequences if she continues to violate NC? My consequences were if she continued, she would have to leave, period. Not only that, but I would expose it to EVERYONE (I had the evidence to back it up)! I said this sternly but without anger! I would have definitely followed through if she continued! I believe this set the tone that I would support & forgive her, but I would not be a doormat for her to eat cake; I drew a line and stood up for my own dignity, self-worth and self-esteem!
This is what worked for ME; do what you feel is necessary for YOU; follow advice of the vets!
Whether it is MLC or WAW or both; LOTS AND LOTS of patience, understanding and space; both emotional and physical when needed! Validate her feelings! Do all the things you listed in your last post. Watch, Listen, STFU!
Azagtoth
Me: 44 X WAW/MLC: 42 Kids: S21, D11 BD: July 2013 (ILYBNILWY) EAx2: Busted 1 OCT 2013; 25 Mar 2014 Status: Divorcing & Done! Waiting to be final (Nov 2014?) & glad it's finally over!
It sounds like you're pretty well versed on DB'ing, so keep up with that. I think your biggest issue right now is that you expect results too quickly. Hey, didn't we all! Just keep in mind that this is a marathon, not a sprint. It's going to be months before you might see even small positive signs. Sometimes it's over a year. Just keep working on yourself and quit watching her for signs. Good luck!
From what I can tell right now, she is NC with other man so she doesn't get kicked out. I believe she plans to stay home right now, get her funds built up, then walk in about a year. By that time OM's kids will have left home for college, OM will be able to leave his W, and they'll live happily ever after.
W hates me right now. Because of her pre-M bankruptcy, and because she stopped working soon after we married, everything is in my name. We have nothing jointly. It just happened that way - it was never malicious. This is holding her down and she hates it. It's one of the things W said is wrong with our R - "You control everything." 6 months ago, I would have been willing to change that. Today, she'd clean me out and run.
W has noticed my efforts at improved communication and my 180's and is suspicious and outright contemptuous of them. "A day late and a dollar short." Thinks I'm just doing it for financial reasons. W knows I'm reading relationship and self help books, and she hates it, because it's too late to apply to her, because she's done. So while I'm happy to report I identified some good 180's and followed through, the result is more hatred.
I guess this is expected, and I just have to continue to be consistent with my new behavior, even if it infuriates her?
So I can't worry about OM, PA or NC anymore. I think I have 6 to 12 months to become the man only a fool would leave, give her lots and lots of space, GAL and prep myself for life after D, because right now she is hell bent on that plan, and has a boatload of enablers cheering her on.
