It's Not Over 'Till It's Over

[Fight4MyWife]

I am a 34 year old male from the UK. My wife is also 34 and we have a 2 year old son. We have been together for 14 years and married for 8 years.

There have been a few issues over the past few years and my wife has expressed dissatisfaction with our relationship on a few occasions, often when hormonal, and I haven't always handled these situations in the best way, or taken them as seriously as I should have.

My wife has also suffered from depression and there has been 2 occasions over our 14 year relationship that she has attempted to take an overdose and ended up in hospital. The second occasion, which was not that long after we were married, she fell down the stairs and fractured her neck and wore a neck brace for 3-4 months.

About 5 years ago I came home form work to a note saying she had left and gone to her parents. She was there for about 2 or 3 weeks before coming back home. The information I got from that was relating to me getting angry and frustrated, and although not directed at her, was having an impact on her. I addressed this issue and managed my anger from that point.

Just over 2 years ago, a few weeks after the birth of our son, I cam home to a note again saying she had left. I rung her and arranged to meet her and persuaded her to come home with me that evening.

I have had issues with anger in the past but have managed this for the past 5 years and there have probably been issues of being controlling on my part too.

I have always struggled to handle my wife at the time of the month when she is very hormonal and/or depressed and have often done or said things to make the situation worse and she has become hysterical at times. Also after the birth of our son she suffered with post natal depression, and again I would often make the situation worse. I would spend a lot of time and energy trying to "talk sense" in to her, being logical and trying to get her to behave differently.

After a period of self discovery I now have the knowledge, tools and information on how to handle these situations better and know what needs to be done to create a more healthy marriage.

About 3 months ago, my wife was about 8 weeks pregnant with our second child, we were arguing more and more about trivial things. Again I didn't take things as seriously as I should and just put it down to my wife being pregnant and hormonal. As usual I was confused by her "irrational" behaviour and would try to make her change and say things that made the situation worse.

One particular argument really escalated and became very heated. I actually prevented her from leaving the house, partly out of fear that in her state of mind she might attempt suicide again, and partly out of desperation to talk to her and calm her down. At times she tried to push past me and hit me I grabbed her wrists and restrained her. I am not proud of what happened on this day and realise that are many better ways I could have dealt with this situation, but it happened and I am truly sorry.

This resulted in her leaving and going to live with her parents with our son and I was actually arrested and cautioned.

She didn't want any contact from me at all and I didn't see my son for 4 weeks after this incident.

A few days after this incident she contacted me to tell me that she had a miscarriage.

At first I was trying to contact her in an attempt to see my son and eventually had to apply to see him in a contact centre. After 4 weeks she came round and decided to let me see him without waiting for the contact centre.

I now see my son for 2 hours on Tuesday and Thursday evenings and overnight Saturday and all day Sunday. I see my wife briefly when picking up/dropping off our son.

I spent a lot of time attempting to contact my wife, apologising, pleading, telling her "I've changed" and generally been desperate and needy.

I believe that through this process I have genuinely changed and am still changing in the necessary ways to create a healthy marriage, but now understand that constantly telling my wife this is not going to achieve anything.

She has always been adamant that "It's over", however she did originally agree to attend marriage counselling. Partly because I had put it in the context of improving communication and creating a better relationship for our sons sake, not necessarily to reconcile.

She attended 2 sessions, but because I tried to talk to her & reason with her after one of the sessions outside she stopped attending. She also sent me an email to say that because I was unable to talk on the phone without trying to discuss our relationship she only wanted contact by email or text message from now on, and relating to important issues only.

Since this point I have done much self growth and have read both Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy as well as various other materials.

I replied to her email apologising for my behaviour, understanding her needs and respecting her decision and have not discussed the relationship and have had only limited contact for over a month now.

I feel I now have the resources to make this marriage successful and am viewing things from a different perspective than I have previously. I am determined to save this marriage.

I see my wife when picking up/dropping off our son and she is always pleasant and friendly with me. I have just focussed on always been positive and happy in her presence, making small talk and reconnecting.

I have been very agreeable in many areas where she would have expected me to resist (180's).

My wife has still showed no signs of change at the moment and I believe she is still determined that it is over.

She said "we need to sort out the finances" and asked if I would attend mediation. I didn't question or discuss it and just agreed saying "Yes, if that is what you want". I have the first mediation assessment next week.

My biggest question and required advice at the moment is "How should I handle the Mediation?"

My thoughts regarding the finances is to just show love and be agreeable whenever possible. If she wants to try to screw me over I will let her and just show care for her needs throughout it all.

However, if the subject of divorce comes up, I am not sure I can just agree to this, although resisting might cause a bigger disconnection.

Any thoughts or advice on how I should best handle the mediation process would be greatly appreciated.

I've got my sleeves rolled up ready, so let's do this, let's save a marriage.

Thanks for reading my post.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board.

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Francis Bacon

[Fight4MyWife]

Well in between submitting my original post and it being approved and appearing on here there have been some further developments, which I could have done with some advice on the best way to handle before.

I was concerned about how to handle the mediation process and whether or not I should take the approach to just agree to everything she asks in order to show love for my wife and show willing to meet her needs rather than my own.

I was under the impression that my wife wanted mediation to discuss our finances which I would probably just agree to split 50/50 anyway.

However I was unsure whether the subject of divorce might come up and also whether she might ask me to move out of our marital home so she can live there with our son. I was unsure of the best way to approach these 2 issues as just agreeing to move out of the house and/or divorce I would find difficult. I can see though that by disagreeing to these things would actually cause a disconnection between us and possible make reconciliation more unlikely.

This was my dilemma and still my main area for concern and advice.

I actually could not get all the information together in the short time they gave me for the mediation meeting, as well as being very costly having to close my business to attend, so I tried to postpone the meeting until January when my business slows down.

I then got a phone call from my wife and she ended up asking me on the phone about me moving out of the marital home so she can live there.

I wasn't prepared for this discussion and whether I should really agree to this or not, part of me wants to show love & meet her needs & part of me thinks it was her decision to leave.

So I ended up not agreeing to it, which made her angry and she ended up just saying I would hear from her solicitor then. I feel extremely disappointed as it feels like I have just undone much of the good work and discipline from over the past month.

Any advice on whether I am doing the right or wrong thing by staying in the marital home would be appreciated.

Also on the subject of divorce, I can see how standing my ground on these issues and not agreeing could actually end up pushing her further away.

[Mimi00]

I really like your thread title.

You did the right thing not to leave the house.
She left you.....you should not have to leave your home because of it.
Stay strong, keep a postive mental attiutude.

[kenva]

I feel for u. I'm in the same boat as u. We have been living in separate rooms for over 2 years w out 6 yr old son. At the beginning I went to stay at my parents house for 3 months to give her space. I then moved back. There is also an OM in our situation. Mine filed for divorce but I rejected it because we had not been living as a separated couple. That really tict her off. Oh we'll. exact words from her mother as well. I have gotten a life, lost weight,exercising, going out and enjoying my son. I pray every night she wakes up. I also pray for you.

[AnotherStander]

One particular argument really escalated and became very heated. I actually prevented her from leaving the house, partly out of fear that in her state of mind she might attempt suicide again, and partly out of desperation to talk to her and calm her down. At times she tried to push past me and hit me I grabbed her wrists and restrained her. I am not proud of what happened on this day and realise that are many better ways I could have dealt with this situation, but it happened and I am truly sorry.

That may be a "deal killer" for her. It's common knowledge in domestic violence circles that violence escalates over time. Yelling becomes grabbing the wrists, grabbing the wrists becomes slapping or hitting, slapping or hitting becomes striking with an object, etc. Certainly you could be different, but she doesn't know that.

A few days after this incident she contacted me to tell me that she had a miscarriage.

Was it due to the violent episode?

I feel I now have the resources to make this marriage successful and am viewing things from a different perspective than I have previously. I am determined to save this marriage.

When DB really works its best is when you quit trying to save the M and instead truly focus on yourself. You admit that the begging/ pleading/ negotiating you've been engaged in to this point hasn't worked. The reason it hasn't worked is because you are trying to work on the M at a time that your W doesn't want the M. You're at odds with her. The harder you try at the M, the farther away it drives her. The DB approach is to work directly on YOU, make yourself the best possible person, the spouse only a fool would leave. That works on the M indirectly, once the WAS sees this newer, better spouse they -might- be drawn back to them.

I also detect a lot of anxiety in your posts, like you need to do something NOW to get your M back. That's the same anxiety that led you to beg and plead, you're just redirecting it into some other "tricks" to get your W back. The bad news is you'll never get your M back. It's dead and gone. It didn't work, that's why you're here. You shouldn't even want it back yourself. The good news is there is hope, if you can make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave then you may be able to build a new R with your W and eventually a new M.

My wife has still showed no signs of change at the moment and I believe she is still determined that it is over.

There's no question of it. It takes a lot of time before a WAS might change their mind, many months or even years.

My biggest question and required advice at the moment is "How should I handle the Mediation?"

Don't do anything to interfere with it happening, but don't help it along either. Let your W handle all arrangements.

If she wants to try to screw me over I will let her and just show care for her needs throughout it all.

No, that will not help your sitch at all. Do fight for what is rightfully yours. If you just roll over she will lose respect for you.

I've got my sleeves rolled up ready, so let's do this, let's save a marriage.

You're here to save YOU. Place your focus there.

I then got a phone call from my wife and she ended up asking me on the phone about me moving out of the marital home so she can live there.

Every sitch is unique, but as a rule we advise the LBS not to move. The WAS should deal with the ramifications of their decision to end the M. They should deal with the inconvenience of moving. They should feel the sting of no longer being in familiar surroundings. Also when children are involved they see the house as "home" and they tend to view whoever left the home as the "guilty party" in breaking up the family. Sometimes there are circumstances that render it impossible for the LBS to stay in the home, like perhaps they can't afford it, or maybe it's the WAS's family home. So it's general advice that may or may not apply to your sitch.

So I ended up not agreeing to it, which made her angry and she ended up just saying I would hear from her solicitor then. I feel extremely disappointed as it feels like I have just undone much of the good work and discipline from over the past month.

Well again, you're not working on your M, you're working on you. WAS's will throw tantrums and express rage. That doesn't undo any work you've done on yourself. This is why we say "detach", basically we're saying don't let yourself be affected by their crazy mood swings. Just maintain a polite, respectful pleasant attitude no matter how angry she gets.

Also on the subject of divorce, I can see how standing my ground on these issues and not agreeing could actually end up pushing her further away.

You need to take a short term view on protecting yourself and a long term view on saving the M.

[Fight4MyWife]

Thank you AnotherStander for such a detailed response to my situation.

I response to your question whether the violent episode caused the miscarriage I don't know how I would ever know the answer to this. I have also wondered things myself but not sure what knowing the answer would really achieve.

I don't think things were that physical to cause this directly but the stress or anything may or may not have had an impact.

The nurses said nobody should blame themselves and miscarriages can happen for numerous reasons. So I don't thing I can ever know the answer and whether it really would achieve anything by knowing.

When I talk about being "determined to save my marriage" I do mean on my own by becoming a better person and doing the right things, being the best I can be, I didn't mean I was still trying to involve my wife. I just want to to the right things that might make reconciliation more likely.

When I said I feel I now have the resources to make this marriage successful, I also meant my new marriage. I know my old relationship is over and I believe I now have the knowledge, tools & resources to create a new better relationship.

[Fight4MyWife]

On the subject of whether I should move out of the marital home and let my wife live there.

If I refuse, which I have so far, I think my wife could force me out eventually anyway.

Firstly, I believe she might be able to apply some kind of court order.

Secondly, I believe she could request her half of the equity which would force me to either buy her out, or force me to sell.

During our phone conversation yesterday she actually said she would buy me out.

I can't help feeling that if the end result is going to be me having to move out anyway by force, then I might be better off going of my own accord and showing love for my wifes needs in the process rather than resisting and causing a bigger disconnection therefore making reconciliation less likely.

Any thoughts on this subject will be greatly appreciated.

[PatientMan]

I think she won't see you moving out as loving her, she'll see it as you being weak and will use that to make future dealings even more difficult for you.

-PM

[jp787]

Welcome Fight.

I honestly think you need to do much more work on you and not worry about the M right now.

I think you need to back far away from her right now, from what you have said, this will be very hard for you.

I don't think you have changed other than out of fear.

Take some time and look within yourself, I think there is a lot of anger and hurt in there...

I say this from experience.