[/quote]Not much to update on the sitch, status quo.
Myself I had a pretty busy, but productive "enough", quiet, tame weekend. Got in a thinking mode, always dangerous, digging through thoughts, expectations etc. Ha!
Bringing this over from TV's thread, Mach's post was just what the brain needed:
[quote]That sounds wonderfully....mundane : )
What does reconciliation look like to you ?
What steps would HAVE to happen for you to recognize it ???
What steps from him ??
What steps from YOU ???
IF you are looking inward, how does that look ???
Looking outward, how does that look ???
How does that feel ???
How will you know, when you get there ?????
Baby steps are great...sort of...
When we reach this point, most people say, F baby steps, I want Giant leaps. I want this to end sooner rather than later....
Truth is....
The expectations of things being one way or the other way, are the things that ultimately do the LBS in.
Same as always...it didn't break overnight, and it won't fix overnight.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Wow, let's try that again, obviously coffee was in scarcity mode in the brain...
Not much to update on the sitch, status quo.
Myself I had a pretty busy, but productive "enough", quiet, tame weekend. Got in a thinking mode, always dangerous, digging through thoughts, expectations etc. Ha!
Bringing this over from TV's thread, Mach's post was just what the brain needed:
Quote:
That sounds wonderfully....mundane : )
What does reconciliation look like to you ?
What steps would HAVE to happen for you to recognize it ???
What steps from him ??
What steps from YOU ???
IF you are looking inward, how does that look ???
Looking outward, how does that look ???
How does that feel ???
How will you know, when you get there ?????
Baby steps are great...sort of...
When we reach this point, most people say, F baby steps, I want Giant leaps. I want this to end sooner rather than later....
Truth is....
The expectations of things being one way or the other way, are the things that ultimately do the LBS in.
Same as always...it didn't break overnight, and it won't fix overnight.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
And in my case, I had thought I had the EGO/PRIDE thingy down real good.
Then the PA that I always kinda suspected/was in denial about was verified in Feb. Turns out, I had little down good at all.
Got my backside handed back to me on a cheap plastic platter with chipped edges.
There was lots more work to do, especially in the EGO/PRIDE area. I thought I had it down better in Sept when I sent W the "all forgiven, from this day forward" text. And it may, or may not, have been or is being tested (unconsciously or not). Not sure. Doesn't matter now, too terribly much, think I have the EGO/PRIDE thingy more worked out.
I want to forgive, therefore it's up to me to figure out how to get there.
I have an idea of what it looks like, but it's not yet complete...there is a core visual, but the edges have some fuzziness...
So, I have been thinking about this a bit...
To me, I think that the key to building trust was about finding forgiveness....
The trust had been broken, yes, and it needed to be rebuilt from BOTH sides, and the trust that I needed to find first, was the trust with myself. I betrayed my own trust just as much as my Ex ever did. I betrayed myself, and the things that I promised way before she ever stepped outside of that trust circle.
So for me ? Trusting myself in my actions and decisions was way harder than worrying about trusting her again. And to this day ? I do not trust her, yet for very different reasons that I would expect them to be.
It started for me by realizing and accepting that I played a role in the demise of the relationship. I had to own the things that led me to betray my vows, way earlier than she did. I was just as depressed, and angry as she ever was. I let fear drive my actions, not ever being aware that I had fear. I was controlling, superior, condescending, and out of touch with any kind of relationship skills. I assumed her feelings continually , and I was an absent parent throughout most of my children's infancy.
There were reasons for most of that. Obligation was a main issue, and the reason I was working long hours. Yet looking back, and through the next step of things. It really didn't matter what the reasons were. I WAS guilty of all the above. And I own them , not proudly, just the flag that I fly now. Absolute truth....
When I first started delving into myself, I resisted seeing those things because I was still looking for this to be somebody's fault except my own. I wanted to blame her, I wanted to blame MLC, and I wanted anything other than that person in the mirror. When I started really being honest about it, I was just as much, probably even more at fault than she was. Way more at fault than MLC was. I was not responsible for her MLC, that was a perfect storm inside of her own head. I was however, responsible for my actions that led her to many triggers.
IF.....IF what we read and hear is true, and that having another person firmly entrenched within the middle of our Marriages, is nothing more than a Band-Aid, and not the real reason, or root cause of our Marriage failing, then the real issues need to be owned and addressed BEFORE any healing can occur. As much as I needed somebody else to be at fault, when I hit MY bottom, the only way back to the top was the truth within myself. This actually had little to do with her.
The more people that I talked to (DBers), and the more books that I read, convinced me that my way out of my self imposed Hell, was forgiveness. What the F was that ? How does THAT happen ? I can tell you that I didn't have a clue how to answer that. Maybe I still don't know how to word it, not even sure that I remember there being actual steps involved in it. What I do remember, is that to truly forgive, has zero to do with another person.
I took the time to break down each of the things that I felt responsible for. The fact that I emotionally abandoned her, that I was angry, that I was depressed, that when I abandoned her, I still held her accountable for my emotional well being. That I needed to hold on too tightly to her, fearing that she would leave one day. Working toward that being the goal instead of getting off of my ass and working toward being a better person.
I realized that the only thing that I had ever known, was what I had ever seen, The role models that had been in place for me growing up. The lifestyle that I witnessed, watching my own Mother's MLC at an early age, that ripped through my childhood. I did the best that I could, with the tools that I had at that time. Not an excuse, yet it is the reason.
When I worked through those things, is when I started to realize that what I was doing, was a choice, and that I COULD go through the rest of my life being the same old Asshat that I had been previously. And that the cycle would repeat if I didn't break the chain. My days became lighter, and my darkness started becoming brighter. Day by day, I started seeing things for what they really were, and not what my rose colored glasses tinted them as.
I could see forgiveness through all of the darkness, for the first time ever. Owning all of those things allowed me to free my mind of all the excuses that I used to carry around....EMBRACING my mistakes allowed me to start forgiving those things. And forgiving those things had nothing to do with her, it had to do with myself.
After that, I had to sort out the other crap, which was everything that she had done to betray the marriage and relationship. And I have to admit, by the actions that I had made, I really cannot blame her for trying to find the emotional support that I had abandoned years earlier. I really didn't blame her for trying to find the things that fed her soul, that I really didn't understand (because I hadn't taken the time to feed them for her). I really didn't blame her for trying to find support through parenting when I was absent. And I especially couldn't blame her for her MLC, and unresolved issues that were dancing around in her head. So what was left ???
It was the dishonesty that was my last straw. the lying.......
That was the hill that I was willing to die on, and the hill that the relationship did die on....
How does that tie into trust ??
Good question, and I guess that in typing all of that ^^^, maybe my sight of it has changed up a bit.
Trusting again, was one of the hardest things to do. Old triggers play a part, and new triggers are formed. I can tell you that trusting myself was way harder than trusting another person again. Trusting myself to not repeat the same behaviors that led me here 6 years ago. All of that comes into play. Trusting another person (in the confines of a relationship) is way less pressure than trusting myself in those same confines. Trusting myself to not make those same mistakes again.
Trust is the hardest thing to gain, and the easiest thing to lose. Last to show up, and first to leave.
And IF I could make the mistakes that I made, and was able to trust myself again, then nothing that anyone else had done , was worse than what I did to myself.... And IF reconciliation was ever a possibility, then I owed it to her (understanding MLC and all) to try to trust again. Through Faith, is trust given, and with my vow to her, I would have owed that to her....
I DO trust myself now, through a lot of hard work, and absolute truth with myself. And there are days when I do better than others with it. I do recognize those things when I am off, and I do recognize the things I do well.
I will say that to achieve any kind of relationship, there has to be trust, and however that happens is up to the people within that relationship. And it has to be a common goal for each party. What each other are comfortable with, and what they are willing to give to keep that trust all safe and warm.
I think that trust starts in a reconciliation through the common goal of WANTING to remain married. Trust starts small, and builds through trusting, yet verifying that trust. I think that trust builds through actions matching the words, and certain steps in place ( MC, etc) to protect that trust. Taking only in "safe" environments for example. Agreed check points for electronic devices for EACH party. Being as willing to give, as well as receive. Being aware of certain "triggers" and not assuming that you know anything. Being able to listen even better than talking. Being able to show trust in order to get it in return.
Another thing that I will say is, that DBing is perfect for detaching, and keeping the Monsters at bay through this. However, the things that we learn through DBing, aren't always perfect for the re-connection process. My advice would be to live within the moments, rather than what we accept as "normal" though MLC. Access every situation, and take things as they are, not what we expect them to be, or worse yet...assume that they will be.
To me, love means being vulnerable . There isn't any way around it. Love is a risk that we are willing to take in our lives. Part of living life to its fullest is part of being vulnerable. Being vulnerable in other aspects of life seems to be accepted more easily at times. Maybe a person sky-dives, or rock climbs. Even more so ? I get into my vehicle every morning to come to work....am I vulnerable ? Even more so than in a relationship.
I was asked last night..." Are trust and forgiveness two different things? "
I answered that they tied into each other. And I do believe that.
Without forgiving myself, I would never be able to trust myself. And trusting myself was the first step towards being able to trust another person again.
The trust had been broken, yes, and it needed to be rebuilt from BOTH sides, and the trust that I needed to find first, was the trust with myself. I betrayed my own trust just as much as my Ex ever did. I betrayed myself, and the things that I promised way before she ever stepped outside of that trust circle.
So for me ? Trusting myself in my actions and decisions was way harder than worrying about trusting her again.
I think this makes a lot of sense. But, I think it's sorta the ol' what came first? The Chicken or Egg?
Maybe it's impossible to ever really know what set off the dynamic? Or maybe it's possible, but requires time and effort that, in long run, isn't really worth it?
Something cracked somewhere along the way and the crack widened and widened without getting fixed.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
I'm referring to the idea Mach that something you did or didn't do was a trigger to set off the MLC or whatever you want to call it...which lead to the infidelity.
But wherever you go, there you are...so you have to face yourself first and how you deceived yourself, betrayed yourself, let yourself down. Very cool.
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
