When amicable makes you want to scream

[Muse]

Last night, I discovered I have full blown sinusitis, the dog is sick too, my D is in crisis over something done to her (cops are involved), I'm not sleeping, it's a mess. Really universe? I know we are never given more than we can handle, but man the universe has a high opinion of me right now!

H texted me twice, I didn't answer because I was trying to console my D...some things are just more important sometimes.

Today after yet another night of tossing and turning, I called him, gave him the details, after he essentially chided me for not returning his text messages.

I don't understand men.

[Muse]

I am going to try and repost my response to Underdog...I understand posts sometimes get lost....and I'm still on moderation...so it happens. LOL (I had it all typed up in Notes, so still have it)


Sorry for taking so long to respond everyone.  I took 10 days to run away to my home town. I reconnected with old friends and family. I took our daughter with us, it was good healing for both of us. I came home, and my husband who has been "house sitting" seemed both happy and afraid to see me. 

I am back, calmer, more self assured and ready to see where my path is going to lead me.

 

Money has always been a sore point, he spends it and then resents me for using what little we have to get the bills paid. I think it has become a control issue with him determined to spend and me determined to not spend....and the fight is on.

 

Sounds like you two have brought some childhood baggage and fears into your M and you're at an impasse. What's the psychology of his feelings about money? And what is your background? 

Are you a control freak? Do you have to have the last word? Are you sarcastic? Are you critical? A perfectionist? What are his chief complaints about you that you have not addressed?

 We have a LOT of debt, most of it happened when we were handed an unexpected "bill". It was a years salary, and it crippled us for 4 years.  It has caused a lot of strife. 

Yes this has made me incredibly worried about money, and probably a control freak about it.  And I bet I have been incredibly critical, and have hurt his self esteem.  The debt is paid ,we have climbed out of that hole and are finally on solid financial ground. But the hurt, his and mine, are still there. 

That being said, I'm willing to bet that in his mind you've accumulated a list of unpleasant character flaws that he feels are deal breakers. Can you share?

Oh yes. He feels that I have been judgmental, I have let myself go, I have held him back from having all the toys that his friends have, and assorted other things that I am not sure if he thinks them of me, or just doesn't want to see them in himself. 

This calm (even if some days it's only a facade) is perplexing him, I know. He keeps expecting me to call him repeatedly, to start a fight, to melt down, and I don't know what steps to take next.

 

This is what MWD calls a 180. If it has been your nature to engage with him this way, then stop it altogether. If you don't know what to do or say, then do or say nothing. 

He's undoubtedly moved out because he doesn't feel hopeful that things are going to change or that you are going to change. If he can count on you to dance the same dance with him, it's going to be more of the same. Change it up.

 

On Page 128 DB talks about, "Notice what is different about the times you are getting along." I had to dig far and deep. I couldn't pinpoint a single thing.

 

I know you can do this. You haven't been getting along for awhile. Do you talk at all?

We do talk, he hides behind this wall of politeness, and I am told how happy he is, how free he is, and how much he is looking forward to doing now that he has that freedom.  I do have an update as of last night, but I will get to that at the end.

If you have to go to the distant past for clues, when he felt happy with you, what were you doing or not doing that made him feel close and connected with you?

Your money differences are the elephant in the living room. But I'd bet my mortgage that they are the smoke screen for a lot of other struggles between the two of you.

Before we were financially destroyed, we were happy. We had ups and downs, a great sex life, communication (good and bad). I used to make his favourite meals, I learned to have the freezer stocked for the surprise 10 guys invited over for beer and whatever's LOL, we cleaned the house together(ok he had to be prodded a bit), overall, I think I made him feel needed, wanted and that he mattered. 

 

If I don't contact him, I seem to get a text asking how my day was, or he seems to need to stop by for something. 
 

 

Then use these opportunities to see what kind of response you get to attempts at conversation. Are you congenial or do you act petulant and whiny?

When we separated in 2008, yes. This time?  NO. I have tried to stay away from text/phone/email begging/pleading and whining. I try and keep it pleasant. 

What are you actively doing to stop the scorekeeping and work on the resentment?

Do you have a faith community or support network? Counselors?

Now some rules to live by while you figure stuff out:

1. Don't lose your temper.
2. Set some communication goals
3. Make sure you work on personal goals and things that make you happy.

I am deciding that the little stuff that drives me nuts, is really not about the stupid little stuff at all. It comes down to, if the bathroom is a mess, clean it or hire a service. If he is late, it's traffic or a long day at work, or beer with a friend, not him purposefully avoiding me. 

I keep saying to myself,  "Do I want to be happy or right?" 

I want to be happy. 

[JayMan]

I wanted to let you know my W told me she loved me, wanted to be with me, etc, 4 days ago. Today, she just says we need to be divorced, even as she told me she loved me.

Don't sweat it - seriously. Most WAS are in a "fog" - basically swaying and whipping around at the whim of whatever emotion comes through them. Just as your H's jacket triggered a thought in you, I'm certain a sock on the floor can trigger anger and resentment in them, and they dip back into the fog. My W has said almost everything you said your H said - "We're broken" and all that rot.

I will say too, my biggest setbacks with W are when I lose my temper - so mind the comment above about not losing it. I don't cuss and yell and say nasty things, but it just triggers fear in W.

Also, good for you for your comment on not texting/phone/email/begging. When my W said the whole love you thing for the first time in 6 weeks, I had stopped texting and calling and limited interactions to a few necessary times in the span of a couple weeks.

Keep your chin up!

[Underdog]

Muse,

There is always hope. And even if the outcome isn't what you are working for right now, you'll find hope that you'll come out a better and happier person.

I came home, and my husband who has been "house sitting" seemed both happy and afraid to see me.

I am back, calmer, more self assured and ready to see where my path is going to lead me.

I've always found getting away from my general life and living in my head suits me well. Glad it gave you and your D a chance to regroup.

We have a LOT of debt, most of it happened when we were handed an unexpected "bill". It was a years salary, and it crippled us for 4 years. It has caused a lot of strife.

Yes this has made me incredibly worried about money, and probably a control freak about it. And I bet I have been incredibly critical, and have hurt his self esteem. The debt is paid ,we have climbed out of that hole and are finally on solid financial ground. But the hurt, his and mine, are still there.

I can totally understand this dynamic. Muse, you might have to go back to your childhood to work on where this fear originated and how you're going to manage in the future. If it makes you feel better, I had to do it myself. My situation wasn't as desperate as yours, but I grew up without much $$ and whenever my parents seemed to get some, some catastrophe came along to take it away.

I have a mother figure mentor who lives life with the attitude of abundance. Everything she has RIGHT NOW is enough. I've worked really hard to approach my own fears like that. The more attention you give to the fear, the more likely you will manifest what you think about.

Maybe tell yourself that money is currency only. It buys what you need, but it will not be the one thing that defines you. I realize you had some setbacks. I'm a business owner, and the past 4 years put me into massive debt. I'm having a good year in 2013, and slowly making some headway but I have a long way to go. I just look at it as work in progress and then leave myself alone.

Have you ever read Wild at Heart by John Eldredge? I'm going to suggest it to you to maybe help you understand the male psyche. It rocked my world, and when I finished it, I cried like a baby. I realized that I had contributed to breaking down a man who was trying to do what men do instinctively.

This doesn't excuse irresponsibility.

We do talk, he hides behind this wall of politeness, and I am told how happy he is, how free he is, and how much he is looking forward to doing now that he has that freedom. I do have an update as of last night, but I will get to that at the end.

I can see that you're taking his comments personally. Don't! Listen, if your H ain't happy, there is no way your marriage will be happy. Listen to him. Watch him. What's he getting from his "freedom" that he doesn't have when he's with you? Really look at this, Muse. Here is a good part of the answers to your questions.

Encourage him to seek the answers he needs, Muse. Be supportive. Be empathetic. Apparently, there is a lot of hurt and resentment here and you are going to have to shelve yours for awhile to heal this. Keep telling yourself that you want to be happy vs. right. Dropping the scorekeeping is what helps the forgiveness process.

Now, for that update?

Betsey

[Muse]

Thank you Jon and Betsey!!

I will order that book today!

My posts ended up out of order....this was the update. I do have another update, but will hold off until after our meeting today.

I came home on Saturday evening, he was very polite. He has been incredibly busy working as well as two side jobs, and has been going hard 14-16 hours per day. He looked exhausted. He has also done something to his shoulder. I grabbed the balm, and worked out the kinks for him. I swear he was simply leaning into the touch and just enjoying my hands on him. It was nothing sexual, just that contact with another. He slept on the couch.

Last night, he put in another brutal day, came by, I fed him(because he is not eating) and he made yet another comment about how good it is that he has freedom.

I lost it

I told him that every time he hammers it home about his joy in his new life, he is hurting me and that he needed to go. He threw a little bit of a tantrum, but we ended up talking. Really talking.

He admitted that he is determined to keep that wall up, or he will backslide into coming home and back to the same old crap.

I told him that I was not asking him to come home and that I agreed that there is no way we could ever go back to that.

He said that I am still holding onto hope and he cannot go back to that.

I told him that the last time we separated, I was determined that there was only one path, we would get back together and that was it. We didn't fix us, only the marriage. This time, I'm working on me, and I am going to see where my path leads. I refuse to close off any path, because that sure did not work the last time.

He said, we are broken and it cannot be fixed.

I told him that I disagreed. We have all this love, and we let all this crap pile up on it.

He said, no we are broken.

I said, no if we were broken, you wouldn't love me anymore.

The look on his face....he said he hadn't thought of it that way,

I do believe I made him do what he has been avoiding for the last month. And that is think about our situation. He left, i got a big hug.

Today, instead of the usual gruff hello, I got a good morning sunshine, how did you sleep? He had to stop by to grab something, and has retreated back behind his wall, but it seems a little thinner.

I believe I need to walk very carefully here. Patience patience patience.

Is this false hope or am I doing something right?

[Muse]

Oh I forgot to add. When it comes to money, I can absolutely pinpoint my own issues with getting hammered with that debt a few years ago. We almost lost our home, groceries and utilites went on credit cards, my credit rating was destroyed. Looking back, I can see how it made me a control freak about money.

[labug]

You're not an idiot, this is your path, use it for the greater good.

My H was always very polite after the BD and said many of the same things your H is saying. He also had an unbreachable wall, occasionally a brick would loosen and he would quickly patch it up. He was a champion at going dark, no personal contact, would only communicate by email (kids), only saw me f2f when he absolutely had to.

Give him the space he needs and more. Your "lost it" moment is a signal that you also need to see less of him. He doesn't need instances that cause him to sit there as you're losing it and think "This is why I'm gone."

Betsey's given you some very good advice. Another book I found helpful was How to Improve Your Relationship Without Talking About It.

Good luck.

[Underdog]

Muse,

Sorry it's been so long. I've been slammed at work and just can't seem to gain traction long enough to be back here often.

Just remember one thing:

I told him that every time he hammers it home about his joy in his new life, he is hurting me and that he needed to go.

You really ought to stop saying this stuff to him - because these kinds of statements are all about you and your feelings and don't have compassion for him.

Look, I know it's hard to show compassion for the one person who keeps hurting you. But it's HIS journey and he needs space and time to figure some of this stuff out. If he still loves you, you're going to have to encourage him to see things differently. So try to muster some gratitude for him being the person who's forcing you to learn a new dance together. What was happening wasn't working, and now you get that chance.

So until you can show that you feel that way, all you need to do is nod and validate him. You say instead, "I can see why you feel that way now. I'm sorry it took us to get to this point." And leave it alone. Once he feels he can stop fighting you on the little stuff, he just might think about the big stuff.

Capisce?

Did you get that book?

Betsey

[Muse]

Hi again. I find it hard to write here. We were doing very well, until I was hit with a chest cold, sinusitis, weeks of insomnia (this has been an ongoing issue for years), etc etc etc....it was the perfect storm of physical, financial, work issues and a couple other things that hit me all at once.

The fight was huge, i know I am failing epicly at this distance thing. I stopped contacting him in any way. I cannot keep up this level of stress.

Yesterday we had an emergency. I didn't know who else to call, so I called him. He dropped everything, drove 45 minutes and we pulled together as a team.

Labug - thank you. I will think on your words

Betsey - his comments were meant to hurt, not how he actually felt/feels. He finally admitted that and has stopped it. But I do understand what you are saying. We have not had a conversation or confrontation about "us" in a week now. Right now I am just going to take the support heis offering me in this tough time (the emergency, not our separation), and see if I can learn that new dance.

[Muse]

Oh and yes...I have ordered the book...it should be here on Monday.