Figuring out the old and new life

[ForeverYoung]

Hi my fellow DB team members. I hope things have been looking up in everyone's sitch as of late.

Last thread I just can't get you off of my mind

I don't know if it would do harm or not to also let her know that you won't be there forever?

I've been wondering this too, complicated. I've mentioned the desire to have "Reality Talks" for some time now in my posts here, but haven't said a word to W. Now that W is asking me, I'm starting to drop comments... and then standing back in my official T2 lab coat taking notes on my T2 approved clipboard. (uRw: you may want to add these items to your inventory... they're getting quite popular around here!)

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On the ride home from the grocery store last night, W once again initated R talk. Pressed to know more about how I felt about us, and why I haven't been talking about it.

I explained that I knew she was going through a really tough time right now, so I wanted to give her time and space to figure things things out without any interference from me.

W: (getting frustrated) OK, but that doesn't tell me what's going on inside your head. You must be thinking something, how do you feel about us? I get the feeling that you're just content to go on like this forever.

M: No, I'm certainly not content to go on like this forever... and won't. But I'm sticking around for now because you're worth it to me. More than worth it. We have always been a great team, and I'm confident we can be an even better one.

M: I get the feeling you want to break my resolve, so I'll give up on our M and file. Well, I'm not ready to give up. Maybe in 3 years I will be, maybe in 3 months, I don't know. I've been making changes, doing what I want to do, and enjoying my life. I hope that you find a way to do the same. Life is too short to do otherwise.

She agreed with me on this last point.

I drew her a picture of what I thought a new M could look like. She doesn't see it as possible.

W is still convinced that the "in love" feelings, and feelings of attraction, not only aren't there for her, but never were. This one point has remained constant for her through all this, and frankly does discourage me a bit.

W: I've wasted all this time... I don't see how I can go out and find a BF and start a new life now. I'm stuck.

W: We're poor, and I can't afford to move out like I want to. (My thought: POOR? that's just crazy talk, we have PLENTY!!! ...don't say that out loud, don't say that out loud) "Plus my job is shaky right now. I'm stuck here."

W: I'd like to get rid of stuff. My house is a mess and I can't keep up with it. It's just too hard to even think about working on it... I'd rather just go out and get my mind off of all this.

I said I felt bad that she felt that way, and really hope that she finds a way to work through this difficult time. That I was there for her if she needed anything. I also made mention that that she may find it helpful to enlist some outside help. And that as much as I really, really, wished I could, there was no way I could fix this for her... it doesn't work that way.

(it seems to me she's looking to me to fix things... Actually said as much in different words at least twice now)

My favorite takeaway comment from W last night: "I suppose I have to fix/figure out the old life before I can figure out the new one."

^^^^ I know right now "the new life" means something entirely different for her than it does for me, but I'll still take this comment as progress.

[uRworthy]

uRw: you may want to add these items to your inventory.

Added as we speak. Thanks for looking out, FY. LOL!

We have always been a great team, and I'm confident we can be an even better one.

I'm thinking out loud, here. Seems like she might be thinking that you are not hearing her.So, I am not so sure I would say that again, ya know? ^^^^


W is still convinced that the "in love" feelings, and feelings of attraction, not only aren't there for her, but never were. This one point has remained constant for her through all this, and frankly does discourage me a bit.

This is a common thing that is said. Often until they come through their crisis, they continue to say it. But you were in the marriage, you know it isnt true. She needs to continue to justify her actions and thoughts.

W: I've wasted all this time... I don't see how I can go out and find a BF and start a new life now. I'm stuck.

W: We're poor, and I can't afford to move out like I want to. "Plus my job is shaky right now. I'm stuck here." I'd like to get rid of stuff. My house is a mess and I can't keep up with it. It's just too hard to even think about working on it... I'd rather just go out and get my mind off of all this.

This all screams depression.

(it seems to me she's looking to me to fix things... Actually said as much in different words at least twice now)

I agree, she does seem to want you to fix things. Which is interesting because she blames you for them.

She is swimming in mud, my friend. She's gotta get herself out of it.

My favorite takeaway comment from W last night: "I suppose I have to fix/figure out the old life before I can figure out the new one."

That is a thought in the right direction. ^^^

[TSquared2]

You did great FY!!

W rolled through most of those things too, even at last BD, still the "never "in-love"" stuff. I have the marriage and emails that say otherwise...

How did she react to the suggestion to get outside help? Anything you noticed, facial, mood, etc?

I agree with uRw...screams depression.

One thing I have noticed is that we really have to look for the small improvements, and I think that W initiating these R talks is an improvement from EA (in this case, escape and avoid, lol)...that something is slowly giving way, that she is starting to work on, or try working on, what is going on. She said it herself using the house as a metaphor. And my W rolled the same way...and still does sometimes.

I agree with uRw too to lay back on the "team" theme right now, W took it as guilt and pressure, not what I had anticipated.

Keep going, you do have this....

[mizjjd]

...don't say that out loud, don't say that out loud

Thanks for my morning chuckle FY

When I have those moments with H I feel like I must look like a fish out of water - mouth opening, shutting, opening, shutting. Lol, sometimes I even put my hand over my mouth just to be sure no ill-advised statements slip out.

Another possible positive of the "talks" is that they are a change. They are a sign of movement, of life. Too early to tell if the change means progress or regress, but at least you know things are indeed percolating.

Take care!

[reachingHigher]

W is still convinced that the "in love" feelings, and feelings of attraction, not only aren't there for her, but never were. This one point has remained constant for her through all this, and frankly does discourage me a bit.

Script, script, script.

You know, FY, I got that too! H said he never ever even loved me at all....just married for lust. Then a few months later he revised it to having some love for me, then not deep enough love, then said we were "in-love" on many levels, etc. etc.

I know these are very uncomfortable talks, and I had many with my H. It's so painful to see them push you away yet hold you so closely emotionally.

I do see a lot of positives here. She is working through it. That's the only way to get to the other side. The hopelessness and despair and depression...its all part of the awful journey to acceptance.

Idk about the asking her to do stuff. My H wasn't an in-home MLCer for the major part of replay so it may be much different. It seemed that he didn't like being asked to do things for me as it tied him to home and he wanted to be free. But he seemed willing to offer, at times, his help.

I remember texting him about our water softener and filtration system as I had never had to attend to that and was having a problem with that. His texted reply "Bummer!" And no help.

So.....my friend....keep busting on. You're totally awesome. A well of strength and love for W.


rH

P.S. agreed about the team theme. My H didn't want to hear anything about "us". I eventually modified my talks to pointing out what his life would be like without me instead of what it could be like with me.

[ForeverYoung]

Regarding my comments to W on the possibility of a new and better M:

W pressed to know where I stand on our M & D, and I told her straight up. She wanted to hear it... needed to in my opinion. It's not something I bring up on a regular basis, which is probably why she was somewhat frustrated wondering what I was feeling.

As far as I can tell, it helped, not hindered. Do what works kiddies.

I agree, she does seem to want you to fix things. Which is interesting because she blames you for them.

Actually, other than a few BD's, W doesn't outwardly blame me. What I do hear time and time again is this:

I've wasted 30 years of my life.

I was afraid to live.

I married too young for the wrong reasons

I missed out on the dating scene.

I never got to live on my own.

I've often posted that I almost never get spewed. Another positive!

(although the "incident" is seen by her as a sign from the universe that she should leave me) so in that respect she does blame me.

"everything happens for a reason" she told me.

How did she react to the suggestion to get outside help? Anything you noticed, facial, mood, etc?

She made a brief disapproving facial expression, as I continued on with other thoughts. She told me back near BD that at least one other person (a co-worker) suggested she seek help.

It doesn't appear to be on her radar yet.

mizj: I'm glad I made you chuckle. I think the ability to still laugh through all this is very important.

And I agree. When you feel stuck for a long time, ANY movement is welcomed.

Idk about the asking her to do stuff.

Keep in mind that W and I still live together, run a household together, (with several pets) fix meals at home or eat out together, and run errands together. To some extent, we still are a team.

Like I posted on another thread, asking W to do little things for me has been going well. Seems to build, or at least maintain our connection and doesn't aggravate her at all.

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Regarding depression: Is having "happy" days normal for people in depression? Today W seemed happy as pie. Telling me stories, smiling, laughing. I'm confused.

[Whiterose]

My H never has said he doesn't love me...I got "I don't like you!" With a lot of venom. About a month after he moved out he told his sister and a friend that he's not sure if be loves me which progressed to I don't love her.

My H was very depressed last week. It would appear this week is great. Who knows

[uRworthy]

FY, you know your wife best, so, you do what you think is right.

My xh never spewed much either, thankfully, and I wouldnt have put up with it had he.

I get where you say she doesnt blame you outright, but, I do think she feels hindered by being married. And I think that the "incident" weighs heavily in her feelings. So, that's what I meant.

Anyway, as far as depression, yes, you can appear to be happy. Honestly, no one knew I was depressed and how badly I was.

I was able to "pretend" to be happy. And there were days when I willed myself to appear that way.

But there were other days when I actually did feel happy and hopeful.

I think these talks with your w have helped, FY. I really do. I think perhaps you have given her some food for thought.

I am so hopeful for you two. I believe she can work through this.

I know it is such a slow process sometimes. But it took a long time to get them to this point and so it takes a long time to get them out of it.

And you want her to close the door on her unresolved conflicts
so as not to have to revisit them.

Keep being you, my friend.

[reachingHigher]

FY, you know your wife best, so, you do what you think is right.
.............
I think these talks with your w have helped, FY. I really do. I think perhaps you have given her some food for thought.

I am so hopeful for you two. I believe she can work through this.

^ ^ ^ ^ I agree 100%!!!

Your sitch and mine have more differences than just your W is at home. I think the difference in genders and what the spouse is looking for can also be very very different. And the force driving my H seemed to be his childhood issues of being controlled by his mother. So different from your W's issues.

I do think many things do appear the same in this MLC journey though. I applaud you, FY, as you have such a handle on balance, the delicate nature of how to relate to your W, your vision of the big picture now and in the future, and your ability to keep your emotions under control, as well as hold the standard in GAL activities! You are so awesome!

And I totally agree, "do what works"! I think you have been. I had many, many R talks with my H. More than I think is suggested here. They seemed to help in a lot of ways. Taking each other's temperature as it were, working though things. I like the "team" concept you portray. I felt that all along with my H although he didn't really always act like it. He was still connected by a thread and he didn't like it. Wanted to be totally free of me. But he couldn't, b/c he still loved me. I see that with your W, too!

Keep on being you, my friend, as uRw said

[Notlikingthis]

FY,

I agree with what the other posters said. Definitely depression and she's still very confused about just about everything. The statement about the house said volumes.

W: I'd like to get rid of stuff. My house is a mess and I can't keep up with it. It's just too hard to even think about working on it... I'd rather just go out and get my mind off of all this.

Then,

"I suppose I have to fix/figure out the old life before I can figure out the new one."

It isn't about the house, getting rid of her stuff, finding a bf, marrying too young, etc. She doesn't really want to do any of those things otherwise she'd be doing them, just like the rest of the mlcers! She's searching for something that she thinks is "missing" in her life right now. She is stuck because the fog is too thick. That's why she's looking to you to guide her or fix it....all of it. It must be a scary place for her to be. It's like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. She's scared and is looking for a way home but hasn't found the path. Her friends are doing their best (or maybe not) to help her find her way but they don't have the answers either. The answer is right there inside of her, she just has to look deeper to find it.

You are doing so well with this. I can tell from your posts, your patience and determination and the way that you communicate with her that you are putting your heart and soul into this and will be there for her no matter what. She knows that and if she didn't trust you, she wouldn't be so openly sharing her thoughts with you.

Keep bustin' my friend!