I've been reading the forums for awhile, and this is my first post. Sorry this got really long, but I didn't know what to cut out. The more you know, maybe the more you can help.
So here I am where I never thought I would be. I thought we had a wonderful relationship. Everyone did. Most people still do. I can’t remember the amount of times people would come up to us and tell us how they wish that they had the relationship with their spouse that we did. We could read each other’s minds, we liked the same things, and we enjoyed spending time together. We were a regular standup act, with the other one being able to follow right where the first one left off. But now my husband is now in full blown midlife crisis and I’m really not sure what stage he is even in.
Last February my husband turned 35. He didn’t want it to be recognized. I started noticing changes in him. He was more distant, less involved. I didn’t like how he seemed to ignore me when we were out in groups, like he wanted nothing to do with me. He would show other people more attention than me. He loves the attention. Even now he focuses on and lets me know how much other people just love being around him and his personality. Around the house he would be absorbed in TV or his phone or listening to his ipod. The once attentive father to our three children was becoming more and more absorbed in himself and more and more selfish.
I confronted him last June about what was wrong, and he admitted he was depressed. He had been thinking about a lot of things, mainly how he wasn’t good enough for me. At this point I was tired with the amount of responsibility that was put on me. I am a full time executive, I have three children under eight and we had decided to have a fourth. I took care of everything around the house and hired cleaning ladies and yard workers to take care of the rest, so we could have more time together. I planned date nights and got babysitters for us to go out together once a week and with friends another night during the week. I took care of all the finances. I was feeling overwhelmed trying to deal with childcare and work responsibilities. I was feeling that I wanted him to just feel what that was like. I was not as sympathetic as I should have been, but I was still concerned. I felt like suck it up and get it done. That’s what we have to do in life.
He has a history of depression in his family, and so I told him he should see a therapist, but to just go in with eyes wide open, as therapy and anti-depressants had caused his father to turn into a very self-absorbed person who could justify doing anything he wanted at the expensive of everyone else. Every one of my husband’s siblings has issues with their father. He later would say that I told him I didn’t want him going to therapy at all.
July we had a great family vacation and we were trying to get pregnant. We always wanted four kids and this was the timeline he had set. We wanted to make sure we were done by the time I was 35. At this time he told me that he was concerned about my health. I thought it was really sweet of him. He made it all seem like it was about me. I told him that I know I would be okay and that I just felt that we weren’t done. We had some really good conversations and he understood why I wanted another. He agreed and I felt he was on board. He had always wanted four and never had said stopping at three before this. I got pregnant during that trip.
Around the first part of August I let him know I was pregnant. He had barely any reaction to it, something along the lines of well that was quick. He has never asked me how I am doing or feeling. Two weeks later he dropped the bomb that he was leaving. He left that day. He was living in his car and sometimes a hotel room. He would just drive around for hours. I can’t remember how long he was gone for at that time, I think a few days before the guilt of the kids, and that I was being completely hysterical brought him back. I was so angry at him. I can’t believe how he could just run away from his responsibilities and from me when I’ve always been there for him.
We were going to work on things, go to a counselor. I still thought at this time it was just depression. He’s 35, why would it be a midlife crisis? I never knew anything about MLC at that point anyway.
The first counselor we went to told us that it’s okay to separate. And it would be hard at first if we divorced, but we would be fine. And kids are resilient and the kids would be fine. He said that men who leave will usually always have regrets. I think that counselor is the cause for a lot of where we are now. We began that session with my husband in tears for putting us in this situation, to leaving with him feeling validated. After two sessions I refused to go to him again and sought someone who was more qualified.
We separated again in September for a little over a week, over an argument where he said I was never supportive of him in his job. This is something he would later take back and acknowledge how supportive I was, that I persuaded him to go for a new position, that I did his resume, that I did mock interviews with him and encouraged him. He was looking for any way out at that point. Any argument so he could leave again. Or maybe he was just so delusional at that point he believed it.
We agreed to try another counselor. The next counselor was better. Focusing on communication and marriage skills, things where we could improve. Giving data on marriages and divorce and how men and women think differently and that the problems we have now would be problems in future relationships, and why not work on those now with 14 years of history and children? I was willing to do anything and had already been making a lot of changes. I felt like this was all my fault, he was blaming me for everything. Even though I had my issues with him, it was never anything to divorce over. Just normal things everyone has. I thought his issues with me were minor and fixable too, but he didn’t feel that way. Not only had he been unhappy since last year, but longer than that. He was bringing up things from the beginning of our marriage as if nothing was ever good. My husband said though that he doesn’t want to work on anything. That he is done. He was just going through the motions of going to make me feel better.
There wasn’t much that could be done at that point. I tried to give him space, but it was so hard for me to understand how he could throw everything away. He wanted me to find someone else. I couldn’t understand how he could stand the thought of another man being viewed like a father by his children.
The first part of October he was back in the house and preparing for a trip. He was also having family come visit. He took me to dinner the night before he left and told me he knows he needs to work on things, that he wants to work on things. I felt very encouraged. When he came back from the trip he acted like he was really trying. I would tell him things I needed from him, like to wear his wedding ring, to hear that he loves me. He would, but said it was hard for him to do those things.
A close family friend of ours died, and he took it really hard. It had been several years since we had seen them, and it was really hard for my husband to see how much someone there had aged. When we got back, he said he needed to leave and was gone for three hours.
Things seemed to be getting better, slowly. His family was in town and we did a lot of things together and seemed like things were getting back on track. But I had some really weird feelings. I felt like something was not right. I needed to confirm things in my own mind so that I could put it to rest. I decided to put a recorder in his car so that I could hear if he was talking to someone else about us, so I could know what he really felt. Something just wasn’t right.
I tried to get ahold of him that day to go to lunch, but he would answer. I decided to go grab something at a drive through and the weirdest thing, I pulled in right behind him and there was a woman with him in the car. I didn’t think anything of it. He has always had a lot of female friends at work and usually goes to lunch in groups. I was just annoyed he hadn't gone to lunch with me. But that night I listened to the most sickening thing I had ever heard in my life. I had to stop the tape to vomit. There it was. She was the OW.
I confronted him about her, asking questions. He denied anything was going on and told me he was leaving because I couldn’t trust him and this would always be between us. It was something he had said on the tape. He was always planning on blaming me for him leaving. I never told him how I knew until later. He denied it for a day and then finally admitted that they had been going to lunch together for a few months, but the most he had done with her is kiss. He had confided in her about us, and they kissed, and it was a mistake. He wasn’t expecting it to feel electric. I know there are fantasy feelings there, the feelings of new love. He said he would break it off completely and not talk to her. And he did.
He moved out that next day after I confronted him and has been gone ever since, which was the end of October. He was planning to leave anyway, but kept it together since family was visiting. I have not asked him to come home. He has been gone a month and a half.
He has very little contact with the kids. I let him see them and take them when he asks or I’ve asked him to when I have plans, and this is usually a few hours, twice a week. He doesn’t do much with his life. He is absorbed in work and goes back to the place he is renting and watches TV and listens to music.
Once he left, I started researching midlife crisis. I read 14 signs that a midlife crisis is destroying your marriage, and every single one applies. The signs all fit. He doesn’t care about me or the kids. He won’t talk to anyone. He has talked to me some, but I’m not pressuring him.
He has said since he left that he needs to go to a therapist, but he has yet to make an appointment. He blames me for everything. He gets angry at me and others for the most minor things. Not very many people know we are separated and I know the thought of people finding out about his infidelity, that I’m pregnant, and that we are separated terrifies him.
So I’ve been focusing on myself. He says I’m more beautiful now than I was when I married him. He feels that I’m happier now without him, and he has made the right decision, that I would be better with someone else. I’m heartbroken, I’m stressed out, but focusing on myself, praying, and reading more about MLC has really helped, but I still have a hard time. I wake up at night and I can’t stop thinking about it. I know this isn’t my fault. I know there are things I could have done better and if I had given him space in the beginning and not taken it so personal and been defensive, maybe it wouldn’t be so bad now.
I was feeling better because I thought he was in the withdrawal stage. I never made contact with him, but he always had some reason to contact me every day. Then there were days with no contact. When he started to interpret my happiness as validation, I got scared that I was pushing him away. He told me recently that he contact the OW after 30 days, that it was just too hard to avoid her at work, but that he wasn’t doing anything with her and he wasn’t being alone with her and he wasn’t talking to her about anything. That still really hurt. I’m not threatened by her. I know he is using her, but I’m still so hurt by the betrayal. I know though at his company Christmas party he spent some of the time hanging out with her in a group setting. That was a huge setback to me. It was too painful and I know I need to further detach.
I don’t want to lose him, but I feel like it doesn’t matter what I do, everything is wrong and he is still so far gone in his head. I worry about him. I care about him. I want to just love him and it’s hard knowing I can’t do anything to make it better or make him get through this faster.
I don’t want to see my kids hurting so badly. My oldest son has a hard time even talking to my husband now. I am on a daily rollercoaster. I’ve been in therapy, but I feel like at this point I know more than the therapist does on the subject.
It’s hard to know what stage he is really in at this point. It’s hard to be patient, but I’m trying. I’m giving him space. I don’t call him, and when I do talk to him, it’s like we are just friends. I’ve had one breakdown with him, but that lead to a positive discussions where he got some things off of his chest and told me later it was really good to be able to talk about that. I just acknowledge what he says and apologize for things if I should, but I don’t give him my side of the story and just leave it at that. He wants to talk to me about stuff at work and going on in his life, but he doesn’t ask about me. He acts like he is invading my privacy by asking.
He is very much a teenager right now, wanting his space, only thinking of himself, at least what he is showing. He says he cares about the kids and misses them terribly, but he doesn’t ask about them or how they are doing. He doesn’t ask about me or the pregnancy either. He doesn’t call them to say goodnight. He doesn’t talk to them about anything serious or acts like a dad. More like a fun uncle that takes them to movies.
He has become very isolated. If any of his friends, including friends who know what is going on, ask him how he is doing, he says he is great. He always puts on a good face like he is happy, but I know a lot of times his is on the brink of tears. I know there are issues in his past. I know he has issues from childhood and being a teenager he is still carrying.
I don't know if encouraging him to go to therapy would be a good thing or bring further validation when a therapist is only hearing one side of things.
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
Welcome to the boards. Sorry that you find yourself here. You won't find a better or committed group of individuals to try and get your M back on track.
Your H is definitely in MLC. In fact, I would say almost verbatim, he acted the same way my W had. So you're not alone.
"He feels that I’m happier now without him, and he has made the right decision, that I would be better with someone else."
Next time he says something like that to you, this is what you need to do. Look at him dead in the eye and tell him that you were always beautiful and that he has no right to decide how much happier you are now any more than you can tell him how "happy" he is. Tell him that while you don't agree with the A, you understand his need to do what he feels he needs to do.
Validate his thoughts and feelings but don't justify the actions. Start pulling away and don't respond back to him when he does contact you or wait awhile. Let him start wondering about you.
Right now you continue to concentrate on yourself and get yourself strong.
You'll find himself being happy and sure of himself one minute and then insecure the next. It will be a literal roller coaster of emotions. YOU have a choice to not get on that roller coaster.
It will be hard as heck but you can do it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD, Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This is my ultra brand new and improved list of link
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC as rewritten by HB from Jim Conway are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively. It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena). So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process. (Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
so very sorry to hear of your situation. I, as so many others on this board, really understand and feel your pain too. You are not alone - come here often to share and vent.
I would suggest maybe less concern with what "stage" your H is in. As I understand MLC, the stages are not linear and just because there are signs of "Withdrawal" today, that doesn't mean "Acceptance" will follow on schedule. Understand too this often takes YEARS to get through. All of this bad news is one reason why the LBS is advised to
DETACH DETACH DETACH.
The MLC road is loooong, full of hairpin turns, AND not yours to travel.
Regarding the OW, it is my personal experience that they will lie to the bitter end on that matter. My H says "I lie because I don't want to hurt you." ("If you didn't want to hurt me you wouldn't HAVE OW!" This is logic the MLC cannot compute.) Just be careful if things get intimate with your H - take care of yourself.
Speaking of lies, learn and absorb
Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
Regarding H's therapy.... maybe. But HE needs to be the one to bring it up. And it may take a few "false" starts before he can actually follow through.
Hang in there Hopper. Take care of yourself and your kids. Really work on detaching because its the best thing for you, your H and your M. Seems counterintuitive, I know.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
Regarding the OW, it is my personal experience that they will lie to the bitter end on that matter. My H says "I lie because I don't want to hurt you." ("If you didn't want to hurt me you wouldn't HAVE OW!" This is logic the MLC cannot compute.)
omg - my h exactly. what fools - my h actually said once he was "helping her thru her divorce " (the dope- and causing his own. Then - he "cares a great deal about me" - nice - how would he treat me if he hated me??? one wonders. he does not know what "cares" means i think. oh well huh? anyway- feel your pain & am there with you.
so, have you been able to detach? my h has ea with someone we both knew & worked with 25 yrs ago or so. i'm more calm about my entire sitch than 1.5 yr ago when found out. - i'm by no means "detached" as i'd like. i resent like mad the "waste" of perfectly good ole me sitting here- and she gets his , what? affection- attention, etc. that it's HER he looks forward to chatting with on the stupid computer or cell phone - woo hoo - like a teenager w/ the technology- i'm the "old shoe".
it galls me to not really know how the heck long this has been SOMETHING with them. the thought of forever in the background of our whole life (35 yrs) is the killer. working on it all the time- no idea if it's really the kiss of death tho, ultimately. have said out loud to him- if she's the LOve of your life- why the heck aren't you with her? who in their right mind would not grab it and hold on tight????
either he is crazy- or lying about that (to himself ) also0. this lying business is such a downward spiral. it gets to a point where even saying his shoe is too tight makes me think "liar" in my head. nothing is immune after awhile. any magic words you tell yourself or matra that gets you by???
just moving thru the days dbing - for want of a better plan. I can feel your torment - just felt compelled to write and say hello- it is hell isn't it???
good luck- i guess we hang in there til the time is rite for us to - what??? therein the snaggle...i could never have imagined at my age i'd be here doing this- life....
just read your first big post. my age-life is different than yours- my situation is the SAME. IT'S AWful how accurately you describe things that your h is doing- has become - that are mine exactly too.
i can never figure out if i'm glad of this- or overwhelmed by the tragedy that they are going thru something almost cartoonish because it's sooooo "mapped out"and usual.
we had such a nice life together & r - same as you.
somewhere along the line (i used to blame quitting smoking- he became edgy and fight-ie) he just changed. more edgy- more critical- same deal- nothing i could do or change suited him. i am soooo blind- i thought he was going thru some stuff of his own (retirement - sick father- aches & pains (we're about 60 then) - and so on. i was being totally understanding & spportive and TRYING like mad to change to please.
the quit smoking was about ten years ago- he now is rewriting history . he is not a talker- we seldom can discuss this. have had some flare-ups. not productive really- me spilling over- . i'm not weepy & begging him to stay- i get amazed at the selfishness.
so he quit smoking- i tried like mad & asked alot of time how i could help him, etc. , did he have someone else, etc- he just lied and lied (i know now) - i trusted him completely.
about 4 yrs ago- something drastic changed - now i know he had online "fling" going with old flame across country! went to see her a couple times - then found out had/has simultaneous one going online-cellphone w old secretary- closer t home- 4 hrs away- sees her as well. it's all so sickening that now- honestly- most days im disgusted with him and disgusted with me for being here still.
it's hard to let go of 35 yrs. like you- i swear - it was Karma that i found out.
came home to other house early for a funeral- listened to a phone message from one woman ending with "love ya" - so i looked in his computer at other e-mail accounts - and ka bam. love love love (this is a man who doesn't really use the word much or "believe in it!!??) - slatering it arund and talking about their "visit" - i wanted to die!!! left a message of the note i'd read on his desk and left the house.
THEN - amonth later i happened to be holding his cell phone for him- in w/ dr.- i looked in there and there was more love notes to ANOTEHR woman. honestly- i felt like the entire earth would open up and swallow me. in a fog for easily a year - trudging around- nothing giving me pleasure.
1.5 yr later- i am by no means "over it" or cured - but i function and find i can enjoy some stuff i used to- i don't have kids (and am sorry about that totally) - think perhaps i "wasted" my life with him- it was great tho when it was great- sometimes i doubt it- sayng this to you- i know that was real.
where do we go with this insanity? this is not a stupid man- this is surely a deluded man. some days i think he is just crazy and there's a tumor pressing on his brain.
some days i think the same of me- and wonder why i even am here still- financial concerns are something - mostly is't my inability (still- sickening tho it is) to fathom him not being in my life.
ther's alot - it's all junk- i have no idea where i'll end up or if i'll get to hate him or love him or what the heck he will end up doing. i can't do this forever-
looking back- it's been a long long time. i was blindly trusting & in love- he used it against me. no idea-
just throwin in my two cents- there are so many of us out here. i probably would have gone under (whatever that means) without this forum & knowing i was not alone- it was not "me" that CAUSED THIS - tho, that's his position.
he is less critical and awful since i know - i have not minced words about what i think of i=him and his ea, etc. i don't know what is happening to or in his brain0-
to hope or not? to bother or not? i just get thru one day and then another- i am more fortified and less "wounded" so time is helping-
good luck- i'm thinking what you say is soooo what i am and have been experiencing.
IT'S NOT YOU- IT'S NOT ME - will they ever know that? who knows.
hope your day is okay- just feeling a kindred spirit here. your children are a blessing and something to anchor you.
Hopper, I feel your pain. The beginning of your story could have been my own, with people saying how great my marriage was and how I took care of pretty much everything in the household. My H told me, nearly verbatim, the same things yours did, except mine said, "there's NO WAY you could have been happy all this time!" I don’t know if there’s OW but I have my suspicions about an EA and have had several suspicions about additional OW in the past.
My S5 is hurting over my separation and it kills me. When he says his prayers every night, he asks God to bring his family together again. It brings tears to my eyes nearly every evening. My D2 asks frequently, “Daddy here?” When I tell her no, she says, “I miss Daddy.” Again, it kills me.
It looks like there’s an amazing group of people here to give us the support we need. We are strong women. We CAN do this. We have strength in numbers and each other to lean on when times get really tough. It’s not going to be easy but it will be possible. We will make it by sheer force of will if nothing else. I tell my son every night when I put him to bed, “I will never leave you.” I don’t want him to be afraid that Mommy is going to pack up and leave because Daddy lost his marbles and did just that. Love your babies and know that you were (and still ARE) an amazing wife.
GG
You're braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. -Christopher Robin to Pooh
Romans 12:12 Rejoice in your hope, be patient in suffering, persevere in prayer.
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I took your advice of detachment last night. My oldest wanted to call his dad and say goodnight, and I of course let him. It went to voice-mail, but it was the sweetest message. I then got a call from H an hour later. I didn't answer. He left a VM saying sorry he missed it and was in the other room. He then called again, then called the house, then my cell again. Then sent two text messages, wanting to talk about something, then called the cell again. Then later on he sent game requests through the phone. I sent him a quick text this morning to tell him I just got his message and glad he liked the VM. I felt like I had to respond at some point, but as MrBond said, wait awhile.
It's so hard to stay out of contact when there are little kids involved. There always seems to be some reason he needs to contact me. I'm always friendly to him, but nothing more than friends. I have tried to not be the one to set up scheduling. He always asks me permission to do anything with the kids, never demands. He asks if it's okay to do specific things, like take them to a certain movie even. He's not seeing them as much as he could or as much as the kids would want. That's what is so heartbreaking. The kids absolutely adore him and are having such a hard time with this.
I think I've taken care of him for so long, that's part of the problem. He needs to be responsible. Things are being dropped, and I'm at the point if he doesn't do it, oh well. I've asked him once and if we end up paying because of it, oh well. There have never been any consequences because I've always been the responsible one.
It would be really sad if he takes the relationship with the OW to the full level. I'm afraid from all I've read that it's a must happen, and I don't know if I could ever get over it. I know that me finding out about it really took a lot of the excitement away from him. I think he is worried it's something that could wreck havoc on his work life. If the OW got mad at him, she could do a lot of damage. He's only going after someone so below me, because he feels so worthless. I wish he could see the results at the end of the tunnel before it got to that point. It would be the final nail in the coffin that his values are completely null and void. We're both very religious. We were each others first. I have not had any kind of physical contact with him other than a rare hug since he left and I won't either during this. He has had problems with intimacy with me for since he started going through this, wanting to give me everything I needed, but not wanting anything for himself.
Cadet's suggested reading has been really helpful. I actually read The Divorce Remedy back when I thought this was only about depression. I never read the part on MLC, because that just didn't seem to apply. In my mind that was exercising like crazy and buying a new car and turning 50, and no idea that it made them turn into a complete monster that was unrecognizable. Someone mentioned MLC to me after we separated and I read that section and was totally enlighten. It was like reading my own diary.
I keep thinking that there is something that has gone on in his childhood/teen years that he never fully dealt with. He came from a rough background, and I fell in love with him because he rose above that. He was the first in his family to get a degree, and he has an advanced degree too. But both of his parents had very rough, abusive upbringings. My H has repressed so much, so much in our marriage and before, I think there could be demons there that I don't know about, that he may not even realize yet.
Quote:
Tell him that while you don't agree with the A, you understand his need to do what he feels he needs to do.
Does "A" mean affair?
Thank you again to each of your kindhearted responses. It has really helped me.
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
I agree. The thing keeping me sane and happy during all of this is my children. They are so happy and fun to be around. I think how miserable my H must be without them. I don't know where I would be if I still felt this was all my fault. Being able to have a label for it and reading what others have gone through helps immensely.
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
I really feel for you having little ones while this is going on. The first A I found out about (its the 2nd one H admits to, but at this point I figure "who knows how many really?") was 14 years ago when I had 4 kids age 5 and under. Those were some very dark days - in some ways worse than now.
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Detach as much as you can - it will allow you to operate from a position of strength.
Me 46 H 56 M 22 yrs S22, D20, Twin Ss18
You teach people how to treat you by what you allow. What you stop. And what you reinforce. ~~~~~~~ A lack of boundaries invites a lack of respect.
