Hey, we're ALL biased towards what worked for us, FY. That's why most of us "old guys" are still here -- trying to help pay it forward and help others avoid some of the mistakes we made, and to hopefully benefit from what worked for us. For me, it was a hybrid of MWD and a couple of other approaches, but ultimately everyone has to decide for themselves what feels authentic to them, and to observe what is working.
Thanks guys. I think this is a healthy debate and it does help. It s true that we should do what works but the problem I have is in identifying what is in fact working. I ve seen what I would call huge progress in the way W and I interact yet, what I see as progress has often been interpreted as W taking advantage of me. As much as I see this point, I still feel like I m ahead from where I was a few moths ago. Is this really progress or am I just going down a cheeseless tunnel?
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
It's a tough question, Arsene, and I post about this topic -- "how do you define 'working' " -- often.
One of the misconceptions about DBing, in my opinion, is the "Do what works" thing. The problem is that people mis-define "works" as being "what doesn't make her/him angry" and "what makes her/him act nice towards me." Instead of as "what moves me further along down the path toward a mutually-healthy and committed marriage."
Sometimes one has to take a short-term "hit" in the "nice" department in order to solidify a healthier, longer-term gain.
As much as I see this point, I still feel like I m ahead from where I was a few months ago. Is this really progress or am I just going down a cheeseless tunnel?
I guess my question to you would be the same as the one I asked myself not too long ago- are you measuring progress through what is happening to you personally, or what is happening in your R with your W? Because you have 100% control over one and little if any control over the other. One leads to personal growth, improvement and enlightenment. The other to disappointment and confusion. One can influence improvement in the other, but not the other way around. I'm sure I don't have to tell you which is which
You can really tell where people are in this journey by their posts, if they're working on themselves then their posts highlight a lot of self-reflection; but if they're mired in trying to fix their R, their posts are very spouse-based.
You can really tell where people are in this journey by their posts, if they're working on themselves then their posts highlight a lot of self-reflection; but if they're mired in trying to fix their R, their posts are very spouse-based.
Very true mate. I feel like I've been slipping on the self front. Don't take me wrong. My 180s still stand and the progress I've done on myself is there to stay, but I've noticed how it's not been a huge focus lately. Thanks for pointing this out.
Still, on the relationship side of things, one should still see progress if one is to go on with what they are doing. I mean, yes I really want to be this great guy that is somewhere inside of me and I will never stop to work on this, but some of the things I'm doing now for my relationship have nothing to do with this. When I decide to pull back to help me detach and give wife time to miss me. How do I assess the progress on this?
When I see W seemingly coming around and spending more time at home with me and D8, and inviting me out. Is this really progress in my sitch? Or should this better me that I'm becoming not care about that?
Cheers mate!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Still, on the relationship side of things, one should still see progress if one is to go on with what they are doing.
Yes, that is true. And if there is no progress over several weeks, then we have to change things up. But on the other hand, you'll hear some of the old-timers talk about how the WAS has got to miss the LBS and/ or think they may lose them before they are willing to make a big move towards R. Unfortunately that usually doesn't happen until the LBS well and truly drops the rope. In dropping the rope the LBS is really releasing the WAS completely and saying "I'm no longer working on us, I'm working on me". Some people get there in weeks, others in months, others longer. And I think some LBS's never get there. And that's fine, there's no right or wrong to it. It's a personal journey.
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When I decide to pull back to help me detach and give wife time to miss me. How do I assess the progress on this?
You'd need to see her reaching out to you whether it's calling, emailing, texting or a mix of those. Pursuit.
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When I see W seemingly coming around and spending more time at home with me and D8, and inviting me out. Is this really progress in my sitch? Or should this better me that I'm becoming not care about that?
Yeah, that's definitely progress. But you have to celebrate those baby steps internally and continue DB'ing. Of course you care about it, but try not to show you care. It's the whole distance/ pursuit thing. You distance, she pursues. If you react too strongly to her pursuit then she goes back to distancing.
One of the misconceptions about DBing, in my opinion, is the "Do what works" thing. The problem is that people mis-define "works" as being "what doesn't make her/him angry" and "what makes her/him act nice towards me." Instead of as "what moves me further along down the path toward a mutually-healthy and committed marriage."
Sometimes one has to take a short-term "hit" in the "nice" department in order to solidify a healthier, longer-term gain.
Starsky
True, but there certainly is a time and place for taking the bolded path above. Like when the WAS is seriously threatening to start the D process. At this point "what works" is anything that stalls the D process and gives you a little time. Playing hard ball at the wrong time will only move you apart quicker.
I like to think I'm well past that point, and I really think Arsene is too. As far as I'm concerned my D has already been busted. I'm working on building a better marriage for us by working on me, and monitoring results. So, I'd say that "what works" is a process of constant adjustment.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
When I decide to pull back to help me detach and give wife time to miss me. How do I assess the progress on this?
When I see W seemingly coming around and spending more time at home with me and D8, and inviting me out. Is this really progress in my sitch? Or should this better me that I'm becoming not care about that?
Cheers mate!
My question for you Arsene is, does your wife respect you? She is not likely to fall back in love with a man she doesn't respect. This is part of the bases for the CB approach. You stand up for yourself, set boundaries and stick to them, and she may start to show more respect for you and see you in a new light. Maybe even as a guy that will not wait around forever for her. I think this can be done without going dark though.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
When the tough love technique does draw them back, is it because they really want back in on their own accord? My guess is no, it's more likely they came back because you cornered them, out played them in the chess game, so to speak.
Is this the best way to build a truly loving and lasting relationship?
After the Last Chance Technique indeed.
Now I forget which LRT or technique was which, and didn't get too bogged down in that b/c it's just a guideline. My h came home mostly, b/c he was afraid of losing me for good. And the kids...and it was about to be true.
he worked harder than HE expected, to get me to welcome him back into the home. I resisted but NOT b/c I wanted to punish him...really, I had no interest in that.
I just did not want to re-enter crazy roller coaster land of Limbo, when the girls and I had finally created a new, & pretty happy life, without him around.
I feared more drama. More indecision on his end. I feared he'd revert and we'd have to go for another round and truly, another round of this is NOT in my DNA.
I was happier than I had been in a long time (which he noticed) and I just believed and then KNEW that my future was bright.
A big part of me said "forget it. Why take the chance of being hurt again?" But I still loved him, though in a different way, and the kids did too, and I felt that all in all, trying to be an intact family after all the DB work I'd done, made sense. Forgiveness had mostly been achieved...
As for HIS view, his comments suggest that seeing
my confidence in MY future was intriguing...seeing that I was going to be fine sort of irked him but in a productive way...
it was surely better than the limbo had been. So to drop all that after all the work on myself that I'd done, well heck yes I was leery and wary of his "Changes".
Some of the changes were not solid enough, in hindsight & Retrovaille helped SO MUCH...
I forgave him but the d's had not. They wanted to, but he didn't "get" that he'd need to make up for things with THEM nearly as much as he does. HE and they are still working on that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
