I have read many sitches in the forum and I've read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough. For the time being, I have made the decision to follow a softer approach, right or wrong, as I believe it is what is best for now for my situation. I don't think I'm doing anything which would hurt my sitch and quite frankly, I don't think I'm in any more(or any less) pain than people who choose the harder approach.
You have made a plan, and your plan is to be honored.
Arsene: What is your short-term (2-3 wk) goal? What will your W or the 2 of you be doing? How will YOU know if your plan is working.
DB team:
It't not ours to tell Arsene what his goals are. That gets mixed up in these conversations. The DBer determines their goals. We help them. Choosing what we think ought to be their goals is not DBing.
Arsene, you sound really strong, so that's awesome.
I'm curious about the reasons for your 1st D. You said they were the same reasons your W wants to end your M. Did you figure this our by readind DB or by thinking about things?
I wrote to my 1st W a few months ago. First contact in 8 years. Told her I was in the middle of introspection and, among other things, asked her why she left. She said that she'd lost herself in me/us. She said she now thought she went around it the wrong way but she just didn't know how to reclaim herself and just ran away from it all.
She said she no longer blamed me for it. She blames herself for not being more open about her feelings. For being too agreeable. For not having the strength to stand up for herself in the face of what she now calls my passionate zest for life, but which IMO, is really just my overbearing arrogant assumption that I must be right. I then wrote back to tell her about my present sitch and that this was why I was getting some feedback about my life. I also told her not to be too hard on herself because it would appear she was right about me after all, since my 2nd W left for pretty much the same reasons, as far as I can tell.
About sounding strong? I guess I'm faking it real good.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
You have made a plan, and your plan is to be honored.
Arsene: What is your short-term (2-3 wk) goal? What will your W or the 2 of you be doing? How will YOU know if your plan is working.
Thanks DBmod,
Following the advice of many posters, I've reached the conclusion that I should remain friendly and open to talks with W but to try and not be so readily available and give her more space.
I plan to achieve this by working harder on GAL and making efforts to turn down (in a nice way) some (if not most) of Ws requests for time together.
I hope that by doing this, W might begin to realise what she is missing but the number one goal is for me to be able to detach and not be overly affected by every things she says or does.
I'll know that my plan is working by how affected I am by W's actions and words and how focused I am on myself. Signs that W is affected by my new behaviour would probably be that she either withdraws back to her anger or makes more efforts to get closer.
How does that sound to you?
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
OTOH when your d said you'd been a good boy but your w does not believe it - instead of saying your w is the bad girl, '"Jokingly" , crazy
you could have asked why w didn't believe it...or "Jokingly" promised the changes are real. I think every thing said there had truth darts in it. BUT
I doubt your w thinks SHE is being evil, at least not consciously. So what did that conversation achieve?
You are right 25. I wish I'd handled this differently as well. It took me by surprise and all I could think of is trying to validate W's feelings so I told D8 that mommy was entitled to her opinion and that it was ok. I also didn't want to start a R talk but I felt I should say something else and that's when the "joke" came out. I guess these are still remnants of my passive aggressive behaviour.
2nd time you make this assumption but do NOT KNOW, so why bother going there? Does it help you at all?
I know. It doesn't help but these are the thoughts that go through my mind. I try to chase them but it's usually too late when I catch myself. That is one of the reasons I want to detach so much right now.
and Kudos to you for finding your own path. If you read Dobson then you know the approach and have chosen this MWD DB approach instead. You have the right to do that and besides this is a DB site anyhow.
Stick to whatever approach you take and give it enough time to assess. I don't think you've been at DBing for long ( I know you haven't) and sometimes folks just see HER timeline, not yours.
Keep on keeping on but I'd sure like to hear some of those details in your vision of what life would look like
if you were single and happy...or NOT single but not with your w.
Thanks for the words of encouragement 25. I intend on sticking with this plan until the end of December before I re-assess what needs to be done next (unless some thing happens before then of course).
I'm not sure I can describe what a happy life without W would be right now 25. I know it is possible and I know I will get there if I need to but I haven't thought much about it, busy as I was trying to get my life in order around here.
I guess I see myself being a single father, spending a lot of time with my girl. I would like to settle down somewhere around this country as I don't think I can go back to the west after 12 years living in developing countries. Besides, life around here can be quite good and household help is affordable so I don't need to rely on daycare/babysitters to take care of D8 and still have an adult life.
I can't imagine getting married again. I got burned twice and now I'll stay away from the flame, at least for a while. I can imagine seriously dating again in a few years, to give myself time to heal and D8 time to adjust to our new situation.
Financially, I'd hope to continue on the path I've taken recently with the cafe and band management. If either of these picks up I could do very well and still have plenty of time for D8. If not, I can probably get another 10 to 15 years off teaching and hopefully something will come along by then. D8's education is covered as MIL has got her in her inheritance for a very nice sum so that is one thing less to worry about.
I'll give it more thought 25 but that's what I can think about off the top of my head.
Thanks again for your help and your time 25. I really appreciate.
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Arsene, you sound really strong, so that's awesome.
I'm curious about the reasons for your 1st D. You said they were the same reasons your W wants to end your M. Did you figure this our by readind DB or by thinking about things?
I wrote to my 1st W a few months ago. First contact in 8 years. Told her I was in the middle of introspection and, among other things, asked her why she left. She said that she'd lost herself in me/us. She said she now thought she went around it the wrong way but she just didn't know how to reclaim herself and just ran away from it all.
She said she no longer blamed me for it. She blames herself for not being more open about her feelings. For being too agreeable. For not having the strength to stand up for herself in the face of what she now calls my passionate zest for life, but which IMO, is really just my overbearing arrogant assumption that I must be right. I then wrote back to tell her about my present sitch and that this was why I was getting some feedback about my life. I also told her not to be too hard on herself because it would appear she was right about me after all, since my 2nd W left for pretty much the same reasons, as far as I can tell.
About sounding strong? I guess I'm faking it real good.
Arsene, it's good to got some feedback from your first W. I kind of saw myself in what she said about being too agreeable and not standing up for myself, but I never thought about leaving my H bc of this. I think everybody reacts differently to the same circumstances. But overall, the fact that you're thinking about how you could be a better H is what matters.
I'm good at sounding strong too, even if I don't really feel it :-)
Your short-term plan sounds good.
My challenge to you: your December deadline. Why December? What if things don't change? I would stay away from a hard deadline and re-evaluating as time goes by...
When the tough love technique does draw them back, is it because they really want back in on their own accord?
My guess is no, it's more likely they came back because you cornered them, out played them in the chess game, so to speak.
In my experience of posting on this and other forums, this is not what the formerly wayward spouses -- particularly formerly wayward wives -- report as why this approach worked (when it did work). I like many parts of Dobson's approach and dislike some others, but I think it would be unfair to characterize the many thousands of successes that he's had as being simply "because you cornered them," just as it would be unfair to say that MWD's approach works simply because "you waited them out, while not doing anything to p*ss them off."
Just my opinion. I personally think there is much value in the best stuff out there, by MWD, Dobson, Penny Tupy, Janis Spring, Dr. Harley, Shirley Glass, Phil McGraw and others. But most of my advice (as with many of us) simply comes from my own experience of what worked for ME, coupled with my observations of what I've seen work BEST for others, in the MAJORITY of situations (since there is no one approach that's guaranteed to work for ANYONE). Ultimately, as Michele herself says, we should "do what works."
