Arsene, it always amazes me how everyone wants to give her/his opinion on your sitch. It's a good thing, bc as you said, it gives you perspective. I've always said you are doing the right thing by being patient, and I agree that you must focus on GALing now, which you are starting to do.
I just wanted to stop by and show you my support. You are getting a lot of valuable advice from different perspectives and it looks like you are absorbing it all and thinking about what you think is best in your situation at this time. I also see you keeping an open mind and a willingness to change when you feel it's needed - keep that perspective going.
I completely agree with labug - you have to go through this on your own, based on what you think is best for you. As long as your motivations and intent are good and you keep yourself in check, you will be ok. Things will fall into place as they need to.
Stay strong!
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
While I agree that he should stop being in denial AND that it's not great for his d, (b/c what d8 NEEDS to know is that Arsene and SHE will be fine no matter what. It seems as if all hope for happiness is pinned on what wife does. NOT GOOD for d, or Arsene...)
But I also think part of the reason he's not telling others is HIS PRIDE IS WOUNDED...he's embarrassed that she rejected him....Who likes saying "My wife left me b/c I was very hard to live with, she told me to change but I didn't. And now she's got OM". I mean, isn't that also a possibility?
I am working on the denial aspect 25. I've started being more open about it and even started thinking about life without W. My talks with D8 (when she asks) now include that her mom will always be there and I will always be there no matter what. She even told me she didn't want a step-mom because all the ones she knows of(from fairy tales) are mean .
As far as the wounded pride is concerned, I'm sure there is a bit of that but again, the people who are close to me know about my sitch. Mere acquaintances and my students don't really need to know now, do they?
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
But in my sitch, I found that the more folks who knew details that reflected poorly on my h, the harder it was for ME to hear their input.
And I fear that if my h knew what others had said, he would not have the same r's with them that he does now.
So YES I protected him b/c it would have made it harder on ME and HIM and our kids to reconcile.
This here rings true as well. IMO, keeping the path home well lit and smooth also means making sure there is not too much mud on it.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Finally, I told my youngest that "we're going to be fine no matter what" and that HER happiness was my priority b/c they're the most important people in my life. I'd describe how her life was going to be stable and good, regardless... In OUR sitch, that meant no sudden moving away or leaving her friends or school behind.
In YOUR sitch, Arsene, it sounds as if a move doesn't bother your d. She said she wanted to move or change schools??? So, whatever it takes so she knows there's going to be a roof over her head & and food on the table, and you, then she'll feel reassured.
When D8 talks about moving back to the country where we were last year, I always tell her that it is a possibility but that it probably wouldn't include her mom. She seems to understand this. She also brings up moving to the touristic part of the country, knowing that this would probably include her mom.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
***BUT I fear that if your w gets financially stable, SHE'LL take your d. Right now you both are living paycheck to paycheck, right? How stressful.
Since she gets custody there, IF she wants it, we have to ask why she has not. Isn't the single biggest reason she does not have custody,a financial one?
So, what's to stop her from finding financial support from OM (or a new OM) and then taking d back?
I don't see her as preventing you from seeing d, but once SHE is established, why would she still have d with you?
This is always a possibility but I really think that right now, the reason she doesn't want to have D8 with her is that she is happy to not have any responsibilities. She is living her teenage/young adult life all over again, staying out til 3 am at some coffee stand chatting with her band mates. D8 just wouldn't fit in this and she knows it.
She says her friends don't understand either. They tell her that she should be the one with D8 and the house while me, as a foreigner, can easily fall back on my feet.
I think that W knows, for now, that I can offer D8 more stability and a better chance at a good future. As a performer in this country, she is not likely to ever be in a financially sound position. She does have the house but she's even said that she no longer wanted to end the rental as she said she didn't want the commitment right now.
As far as OM taking care of things, I would doubt that because he has 2 sons and a wife who he can't even take care of. I think that he's in that relationship with my W simply because it's easy and there are no responsibilities, same reasons as my W.
I may be wrong but I doubt that W would go to OM2 should this affair end, at least not right away.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Do you believe it's possible for you to find SOMEONE, way down the road, who could be a decent step mother to your d? Can you see any value to your d seeing a healthy monogamous marriage, with the new improved you as the h?
I know your goal is still reconciling. I get that and I support it. But you do need to plan on being happy, regardless.
What would life look like if you and your w are divorced, but it's a life in which you are happy?
Envision that for a minute and get some details...
I have thought about it. This is my second marriage. My first W also left, for similar reasons actually but I didn't know DB then and blamed her until very recently. Fortunately, there weren't any children in my 1st marriage and we each went our different ways, no harm done.
I was single for a few years with the occasional relationship and one day I got over my 1st W and was happy by myself. A few months later, I met my W and the rest is history (literally).
I know that there is life after divorce and I know I'm handsome, interesting, fit, funny and smart enough for my age to attract a woman probably much younger than myself if I wanted to. My hope for happiness isn't pinned on my wife though (well, it probably still is a bit) but as you say, it's pinned (or should be) on me and that is why I'm trying to switch the focus back to me at this point.
Thanks so much for your comments 25,
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
Thanks for dropping by. It helps to get your support. As you said, I do get a lot of great input from all parts of the spectrum and it is at times difficult to stay focused on what I have to do. Right now, I'm embracing a softer approach and IMO, this is/has been working. As long as W isn't pulling away or the situation isn't getting worse, I'm still ok to give W time and space til December. Then, I'll have to re-assess what I'm doing.
I hope to be able to find myself between now and then and perhaps get in a place where I'm not so attached to the outcome. I can feel some of it happening now but it's too soon to know and besides, I think that before reaching that point, most people sit on the fence for a bit, wavering. I don't expect to be any different.
Cheers all!
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I know that there is life after divorce and I know I'm handsome, interesting, fit, funny and smart enough for my age to attract a woman probably much younger than myself if I wanted to. My hope for happiness isn't pinned on my wife though (well, it probably still is a bit) but as you say, it's pinned (or should be) on me and that is why I'm trying to switch the focus back to me at this point.
To me, what you posted above is key. As long as you believe this you are good to go, no matter what.
Quote:
My hope for happiness isn't pinned on my wife though (well, it probably still is a bit)
It should be. You're still married!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
CB, I'm not asking you to stop posting. I said (so many times it seems) that I value every perspective as they allow me to be better equipped to make the best decision for my sitch. In fact, I acknowledged that I might have to go your way at some point in my sitch on many occasions.
Right. CB has been around the block and knows a thing or two. The bottom line is the timing of when to pull the trigger for what he's advising is up to YOU.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
I know that there is life after divorce and I know I'm handsome, interesting, fit, funny and smart enough for my age to attract a woman probably much younger than myself if I wanted to. My hope for happiness isn't pinned on my wife though (well, it probably still is a bit) but as you say, it's pinned (or should be) on me and that is why I'm trying to switch the focus back to me at this point.
To me, what you posted above is key. As long as you believe this you are good to go, no matter what.
I believe it FY. I just doesn't take away from the pain of losing the woman I love, and seeing the family I love fall apart.
A bit of journaling.
Yesterday I got a basketball and hoop which I installed today for D8. I'm not really sporty but I figured I'd like D8 to at least be exposed to a sport. She and her have been having fun playing one-on-one and shooting hoops. D8 really took to it so I think it was a good purchase.
I still feel strangely detached from W. She was around a few hours ago to pick "us" up to go the the art gallery where she had invited us. I still hadn't made up my mind as to whether or not I'd go but in my present state and keeping in mind that I have to put some distance between me and W, I thought this might be a good time to start.
When she got here (on foot which means OM dropped her off outside the complex), D8 and I were playing basketball. I noticed a coldness in her and I somehow mirrored it. I'm not sure anymore. Maybe she noticed a coldness in me which she mirrored. D8 and I kept playing. At first, D8 barely acknowledged W, but then tried to include her in our game. W refused saying that she hated Basketball and wasn't into sports. She then walked in the house.
D8 and I finished our game then I urged her to go and get ready to go. W seemed surprised to hear I wasn't going and remained cold. I simply told her I had "stuff to do today". D8 asked if she could stay at Ws tonight and W refused which sent D8 in a tantrum. This surprised me as she'd been so positive and strong and such a good, calm girl all week. I quietly sat by her and tried to talk her out of it a bit and succeeded in calming her down. W was about to change her mind and accept but I asked her not to as it would just show D8 that she can do this all the time to get what she wants. W has had problems with this in the past.
The situation seemed calmed and I left them to get ready. I came back around and W and D8 were talking. D8 told me, right there and then, that she'd told her mom I was a good boy now but that her mom didn't believe her. W seemed embarrassed. I told D8 that it was ok if mom didn't believe her. That mom was entitled to her opinion. Then, I jokingly said that maybe daddy was always a good boy. Maybe it was mommy who was a bad girl. W answered jokingly that indeed, she was a witch.
I tried to be upbeat as I saw them out and I wished them a good time together. As it turned out, W changed the program and decided to go to a friend's instead of the gallery.
I'm now sitting here wondering if this was the right thing to do. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just have gone and spent a nice day with my family. This feels wrong right now. But then again, W is showing no remorse and no signs of reconsidering us. There is no family anymore. Does she really not believe that I have changed? Or is she just lying to herself again to justify what she wants to do, which is stay with OM?
I should be proud of myself for resisting the lure of my siren but instead I am full of doubts. Perhaps a certain death by her hand feels more satisfying to me now than life without her.
I'll be out of the house when they come back and probably won't see her tonight but tomorrow she is coming back with the intention to stay the night (as a compromise for not letting D8 stay at hers tonight). I'll need to tie myself to the mast once again.
Is there any part of this DBing which isn't painful? (this is rhetorical and doesn't require an answer )
Freshman Class of 2012
M-49 W-42 1D-10 T 10 YEARS M 9 YEARS EA/MLC 07/2010 Separation 28/05/2012 PA confirmed 31/07/12 W Asked for D 31/07/12 D on and off the table since then
I have thought about it. This is my second marriage. My first W also left, for similar reasons actually but I didn't know DB then and blamed her until very recently. Fortunately, there weren't any children in my 1st marriage and we each went our different ways, no harm done.
I was single for a few years with the occasional relationship and one day I got over my 1st W and was happy by myself. A few months later, I met my W and the rest is history (literally).
I found these two nuggets really interesting.
IMHO, Arsene, you would be better off working more on your co-dependence issues than you would be necessarily on MARITAL issues. I think if you could get to the root of "why doesn't Arsene think he'll be okay if he's alone?" you might find your clues to your marital problems.
Yes, this is a marriage-recovery site, but I have found that those who have sucessfully DB'd almost always do so because they first sucessfully recovered THEMSELVES. I think that's what Cutter is trying to get you to see, and many of you are shooting the messenger.
CB, I'm not asking you to stop posting. I said (so many times it seems) that I value every perspective as they allow me to be better equipped to make the best decision for my sitch. In fact, I acknowledged that I might have to go your way at some point in my sitch on many occasions.
Right. CB has been around the block and knows a thing or two. The bottom line is the timing of when to pull the trigger for what he's advising is up to YOU.
Correct. However, I think that Cutter (and some of the rest of us) -- in our been-around-the-block-and-know-a-thing-or-two'ness -- are saying that until you DO, you'll be largely STUCK.
There's no shame in admitting that you're not ready. However, don't make any pretenses at thinking you're going to get anywhere until you CAN bring yourself to be ready.
.