The Lure of the Siren

[breakdownbill]

Arsene I really worry about you mate. You need support out there, even if it's just a friend to have a beer with and listen to your troubles.

Reading your posts this morning, made me realise something about you. Everything you do is with the intention of pleasing or meeting the needs of your D or your W.

What about You? Your existence on this planet isn't to just fulfil an obligation. Everyday of your life, every breath, is an opportunity to be happy, sad, make a difference etc...

You have a defense mechanism and you know what it is? DB.
DB is a toolkit, a strategy, a support mechanism, an online community.

We don't live in a DB vacuum, real life is going on all the time. Don't be scared of making decisions because of what a book said, that book isn't a literal one size fits all help book. It is there to help you, not hinder you.

One of the best things it says in the book, is to do what works.

Is it working? Are you just being a 'Nice Guy'?

You need to re-read these posts and find the courage to take charge of your life.

Do what Denver suggested, 'live for the here and now, not what might be'.

If you still think we are all wrong, and that we just don't get your sitch, think again. When your life is turned upside down and you lose things, people you held dear it hurts just the same.

Time to start living for you, not the past.

Bill

[Arsene]

Arsene I really worry about you mate. You need support out there, even if it's just a friend to have a beer with and listen to your troubles.

Thanks mate. You are right but I didn't ask for this sitch. I'm trying to deal with what I've got as best I can. If I was back home I'd have a better support system but I'm not. I made a choice to be here for the sake of D8 and to try to save my marriage and now, I'm committed to it. It isn't easy but I'm getting my head around it little by little but it takes time to build relationships/friendships especially that I'm not at my best right now.

Reading your posts this morning, made me realise something about you. Everything you do is with the intention of pleasing or meeting the needs of your D or your W.

What about You? Your existence on this planet isn't to just fulfil an obligation. Everyday of your life, every breath, is an opportunity to be happy, sad, make a difference etc...

Again I hear you mate. You are right when you say that my whole life revolves around my D8. It does and it has to right now because the other person in her life isn't around. Again, if you've read my thread you know that I've been settling here for the last few months. I didn't have the benefit of a job, a home, friends or anything when I was handed this plate. I've been working on it and it's starting to happen but again, things take time. I've been playing a lot of music and using my gig to meet people and extend my network and I've been doing my meditation classes and swimming for myself. As far as the rest, D8 is my main priority.

You have a defense mechanism and you know what it is? DB.
DB is a toolkit, a strategy, a support mechanism, an online community.

We don't live in a DB vacuum, real life is going on all the time. Don't be scared of making decisions because of what a book said, that book isn't a literal one size fits all help book. It is there to help you, not hinder you.

I agree with you here again. I know that it is a guide but until it goes wrong, I see no reasons to improvise. I've been following LRT pretty much to a T and I have seen progress. Now I understand what you are saying however for the time being, I'm for sticking with what works instead of getting on the band wagon. Once LRT stops working, which it might based on many things I've read here and in other places, I'll consider all of your advice and I think I'll be well equipped to handle it. People have been saying this is a marathon since I got here yet sometimes I feel like they all want me to speed up. I have to pace myself.

One of the best things it says in the book, is to do what works.

Is it working? Are you just being a 'Nice Guy'?

I think that right now, it's working. I might change my mind on this later, though.

You need to re-read these posts and find the courage to take charge of your life.

Do what Denver suggested, 'live for the here and now, not what might be'.

This is something I'm coming around to these days. Slowly working my way out of denial.

If you still think we are all wrong, and that we just don't get your sitch, think again. When your life is turned upside down and you lose things, people you held dear it hurts just the same.

I don't actually think you are all wrong. I can see most of what is being said here has a lot of wisdom behind it. A lot of it is also backed up by experience so i would be a fool to dismiss it. I am not dismissing anything right now. I am moving at my pace. I'm in no hurry to see this or that happen right now. Frankly, I wouldn't know what to do if W decided to come back tomorrow. I still have a lot to work on me for the time being. My list of 180s was a tall order and I want to make sure I get this right.

Time to start living for you, not the past.

Bill

Thanks Bill. Your concern is really appreciated. My main thing right now, even more important than what this thread suggests, is to find a new direction to my life.

Unlike many people around here, I'm not settled into anything. This happened to me at a junction in my life. I was between jobs, between homes, between countries, between cities with my whole life packed in about 20 boxes and now on top of this I'm now between marital statuses. It caught me totally off guard, literally with my pants down. Now in the last few months I managed to get this new job, as well as a few opportunities (managing a cafe and a band), and I've got my music. I'm not sure where I'm going yet but I need to make that decision and follow through on it. The way I'm thinking about it now, I'm giving everything a go and see what happens. It'll keep me busy and my mind off things.

[Soul.Searching]

That must be tough without a social network. Is there some sort of group you can join to meet new people? You need friends you can really talk to.

[Arsene]

Yes SS, It s been tough but it s getting better. I do have a few friends but by now they re sick of hearing about my sitch so I ve been sharing with friends overseas through fb. I also went to a few toastmasters meeting and that s been good but I ve not made any significant friendships yet. The best thing so far has been playing music once a week. I ve met a few people that way and I can see some of these relationships growing in the future.

[Starsky309]

Arsene I really worry about you mate. You need support out there, even if it's just a friend to have a beer with and listen to your troubles.

Reading your posts this morning, made me realise something about you. Everything you do is with the intention of pleasing or meeting the needs of your D or your W.

What about You? Your existence on this planet isn't to just fulfil an obligation. Everyday of your life, every breath, is an opportunity to be happy, sad, make a difference etc...

You have a defense mechanism and you know what it is? DB.
DB is a toolkit, a strategy, a support mechanism, an online community.

We don't live in a DB vacuum, real life is going on all the time. Don't be scared of making decisions because of what a book said, that book isn't a literal one size fits all help book. It is there to help you, not hinder you.

One of the best things it says in the book, is to do what works.

Is it working? Are you just being a 'Nice Guy'?

You need to re-read these posts and find the courage to take charge of your life.

Do what Denver suggested, 'live for the here and now, not what might be'.

If you still think we are all wrong, and that we just don't get your sitch, think again. When your life is turned upside down and you lose things, people you held dear it hurts just the same.

Time to start living for you, not the past.

Bill

That's a great post, Bill.





Starsky

[AlkalineThoughts]

Yeah, I can see that mate! I've not been able to contemplate life without W. It just doesn't make sense.

I hear you there, and I understand this... this statement says A LOT... The gist is this: You are where you are right now, and you KNOW, deep down, it's not working... If you can't imagine a future without the woman who is currently with another man, you've got some serious soul searching to do... ALONE... More on that later

I know and this is difficult to accept right now.

Yes it is... and it won't get any easier to accept if you don't take action to change the situation.

I have to disagree with you on this one. We went from arguing on a daily basis (or pretty much whenever we met) to actually talking and even enjoying each other's company. I know I'm not there yet but that is progress. I think my W has managed to get through her anger towards me and is starting to realise that there might be something worth thinking about. To me that is progress. As far as the FB stuff and all that you are right, I do let it affect me more than it should, considering what it is.

I do see where you might be coming from AT but with all due respect, our situations are very different and there is no one-size-fits-all solution. The issue of boundaries is one I have considered and one I am no ready to embrace just yet. Perhaps the day will come but that day is not today.

You're 100% right: Our situations ARE very different, and there IS no one-size-fits-all solution. But there most certainly are many tried and true theories that work ALMOST every time... Detachment being the key one here... So yes, there are no one-size-fits-all solutions.

BUT, that goes BOTH ways Arsene... meaning DB is a guide, a toolkit... not a crutch or a way to justify being treated poorly by your W because of signs of progress.

And you know what... you're right about the "progress" that's been made so far: She's probably past her anger (at least for now), you're not fighting and screaming at one another constantly, and you're enjoying one another's company...

But are YOU REALLY enjoying it?

IMO, it seems like it's a CONSTANT struggle while you're with her... I won't point out specifics, but almost every instance you guys are together seems to stir up some harsh stuff in your head right now Arsene...

But let's put ALL that aside for now... let's just go ahead and accept that there's been progress made and you're moving in the right direction in the sitch...

But where are YOU going Arsene? How are YOU growing here? All the signs of progress you point out are what you perceive coming from you W...

I don't know if I agree with you here either mate. When she stops showing an interest I'll be wondering. Right now, I like that she is interested, my issue is I don't like that I can't resist her. I want to keep her interested but distance myself from her emotionally and even physically.

Hint: A great way to keep her interested IS to distance yourself from her emotionally and even physically!

Again, not something I want to do now. I don't think this is the right time to set such a boundary as yours in my sitch.

So long as you're okay with her doing what she's doing with OM and coming back to you and your D when it's convenient for her, you don't need to set boundaries... But as soon as you decide that's not working for you anymore...

Yup mate. That I have to do. Total agreement with you on this. The toughest thing to do as well.
Much easier said than done when there is a kid involved as well as the constant contact which is now needed for me to stay in this country.

Any progress on finding OTHER ways to stay in the country?

I'm not trying to be harsh here Arsene, and I realize that it definitely is coming off that way... I just hate seeing you sabotage yourself and your progress while looking for signs of change in her... while she continues to do exactly what she's doing...

[DaddyLongShanks]

Arsene I really worry about you mate. You need support out there, even if it's just a friend to have a beer with and listen to your troubles.

Reading your posts this morning, made me realise something about you. Everything you do is with the intention of pleasing or meeting the needs of your D or your W.

What about You? Your existence on this planet isn't to just fulfil an obligation. Everyday of your life, every breath, is an opportunity to be happy, sad, make a difference etc...

You have a defense mechanism and you know what it is? DB.
DB is a toolkit, a strategy, a support mechanism, an online community.

We don't live in a DB vacuum, real life is going on all the time. Don't be scared of making decisions because of what a book said, that book isn't a literal one size fits all help book. It is there to help you, not hinder you.

One of the best things it says in the book, is to do what works.

Is it working? Are you just being a 'Nice Guy'?

You need to re-read these posts and find the courage to take charge of your life.

Do what Denver suggested, 'live for the here and now, not what might be'.

If you still think we are all wrong, and that we just don't get your sitch, think again. When your life is turned upside down and you lose things, people you held dear it hurts just the same.

Time to start living for you, not the past.

Bill

This is great. The great thing about DB'ing and taking the opportunity to have a HAPPY life, is that the right people will add to your happiness.

[Arsene]

Thanks AT. I understand your concern. As I said, though, I have to do this at my pace.

With regards to progress in me, as I mentioned earlier, considering where I started from, I think I've accomplished a lot in getting my life in order and achieving 180s. There is still loads to do and I am working on it. I just don't spend time writing about it. What you end up reading is the "big" stuff that's happening in my life, the stuff which affects me. There is a lot which doesn't quite make it here. That's usually the stuff that goes easily, without problems.

Then you ask me if I am enjoying the time with W. Well, there still isn't much between W and I that I truly "enjoy" right now, considering what I have to overlook everyday, but I feel like we're now in a much better place than we were a few months ago. Yes, she might still be with OM (she's spending so much time around these days that I actually wonder if he's still in the picture) . Yes, she still hasn't committed to working on the R. But at least now, we are in a position where this is a clear possibility as oppose to plain impossible.

I'm working on patience as one of my 180s and I've been told from the beginning that this would take a lot of time. I gave myself a two year plan which is to be re-assessed every few months. Right now, I'm trying to follow part of that plan until the end of December or until I notice that it isn't working anymore. So far, it's been working. I've managed to achieve most of my relationship goals, at great pain, yes but nonetheless, there is progress.

This week, W has been around almost everyday. She has even invited me out a few times (for dinner with D8), which I politely declined and today, as she has been invited to stay the night by D8 I made a point to get dressed and leave for the evening around the time D8 went to bed, leaving W to spend the evening by herself.

She's also invited me and D8 to an art exhibition on Sunday and I think I might actually accept this one since it is something she had complained about me in the past. She'd said that she was interested in local art but that I'd never really shown any interest in it myself and never supported her interest (I don't think I knew she was interested in it quite frankly). I'm still not committed to it but I'm considering it as a 180. I'll wait and see how the weekend develops before committing.

I don't think I'm sabotaging myself or any progress I might have made as IMO, I am still moving forward and sticking to my plan and although she "continues to do exactly what she's doing", she is also doing many new things which are steps forward (baby steps, but still steps forward).

Thanks again AT for your time. I really appreciate it.

[AlkalineThoughts]

Hey Arsene. I TOTALLY agree that you have to do it at your own pace. It's interesting to read your thread and the machinations you're going through now, as despite the fact that our sitchs are indeed different, there are quite a few similarities in the way we deal (or dealt) with them.

I'm 100% behind you. I need you to know that for sure!

Hell, it took months of me receiving similar posts to the ones you're seeing flood your thread now before ANY of them clicked for me at all... but one morning, I woke up and they started making sense. I have NO idea what changed, but something did.

One sentence in your previous posts sticks out quite a bit to me:

"considering what I have to overlook everyday"

This is the part that I refer to a self-sabotage. You putting aside your feelings and convictions in order to try to move along your sitch... IMO, that doesn't add up to a lasting change in the dynamics of a R... but that's just MHO

But I'm 100% in agreement with you in the "marathon" aspect and not rushing yourself in any way. I don't think that anyone here is trying to push you to DO something that you don't want to do. I know me personally... well I'm just playing the role of muse... not puppet-master! I think the people here just want you to see from a different perspective...

I can absolutely tell that you've had great progress on yourself and your 180s, and I'm sure that those will continue.

Have an awesome weekend Arsene! You deserve it!

[tori2012]

Arsene, I also agree that you need to take things at your own pace. I also had a very limited circle of friends, and after nearly two yeas, I finally have some friends (though it's still a work in progress.)

Things take time. I think you're seeing some positive signs from your W. She doesn't seem to be pulling away. I can't imagine how hard it must be to deal with the thoughts of the OM, but you are doing it and dealing with it the best way you can.

Sending you support and comfort...