The Lure of the Siren

[bustingout]

Hi Arsene, i like your new thread title.

And your attitude. :-)

I am struggling with something very similar regarding H coming to the house without set times. For the pat two years, H has been traveling almost non-stop. he spends more time away than he does in town. So I had been hesitant to put boundaries in place because he has such little time with them as it stands...and the kids are heartbroken enough as it is.

I would like to think that I will know when its time. At least I hope I do.

[25yearsmlc]

Arsene

I admire your goals and agree with the reasoning about not wanting to use D8 as a way to punish w. Besides, she already has lost so much time with her mom and it punishes d8 who doesn't deserve it.

But is asking for some advance notice, really so unreasonable? It would give you a chance to GAL or at least pretend to, and work on detaching from w more.

Let them have their one on one time and GET OUT of there FOR YOU...

and maybe b/c your w can figure something out about life without you and with periodic visits with her d...

I have a hard time believing she won't miss it a lot. But as Denver said, SHE has to figure this out and she cannot do that with you cooking and dancing around in the kitchen in front of her.

To me that's NOT GAL. You have to be around your w LESS.

Agreed? Then figure out a way to do it asap.

IF your w wakes up then her words won't be so inconsistent.

But remember to stay quieter when she talks, SHE KNOWS HOW YOU FEEL...for sure.

No need to repeat it again. IF she ASKS you a question, answer.

If not, no more volunteering your feelings. They're clear to her. Very...

and your words come off as pursuit which comes off as controlling.
So you know what NOT to do.

Let's go GAL and find some things you LIKE TO DO.

Good luck

[dbmod]

Contact is inevitable as we have D8 and I always told W that she could come around as often as she wished.

Arsene, I would strongly advise you to rethink this. This shouldn't be this open-ended, and without more structure. Your wife needs to feel the consequences of her apparent decision to break up her family, and yet you're giving her total unfettered access to probably the single best aspect of that family.

I'm NOT saying to unreasonably restrict access to her daughter. I'm saying it should have more structure to it, and be more respectful of YOUR time with your daughter.


Starsky

I disagree.

Children should be encouraged to be involved as much with BOTH parents, with as little visibility to the division as possible. Structure related to either of you should not be a power play.

Do what is RIGHT for the kids.

Both of you support THEM (the children) in their all their endeavors, even if you can list 20 things that supports your spouse is an undesirable influence.
Both of you show up to whatever they have going for them.
Liberal visititation/and flexible visitation regardless of your DB / divorce stance.
Avoid anything negative about your spouse or their OP (On your behalf: they make up their own minds. Related to THEM: Any thing you say about your spouse, they take internally, because your spouse is half of them. This is true even if you are the only one who ever sees them and your spouse is across the ocean and never sees them. )







If your spouse is really truly an undesirable influence: a crackhead, drug dealing, mob-related, serial murderer:

Let them show up to support your child
Allow flexible if supervised visitation
Don't talk bad about them (they 'hear' the bad about themselves not your ex)



If your spouse treated you badly:
Your kid will understand in the end even if you don't speak it. They will understand BETTER if you don't speak it.

[dbmod]

Additionally -
When I say I disagree--it's as I understand Starsky. He is a long respected poster and I understand he has the best interest of the children at heart. I'm not looking to disagree with Starsky here. Looking to support the child.

[MKB23]

I don't think he was saying to discourage visitation. Merely to set some boundaries so that it is productive and positive rather than being something that makes one parent feel uncomfortable. My H knows he can visit or take them at any time he would like. However, I do ask he give me a days notice and let me know when he will pick up and drop off. That is what I would ask of ANYONE. Not just H. I don't think that just allowing the spouse to come and go as they please with no real expectations is really good for anyone.

[tori2012]

Arsene, your new thread is already growing!
Good approach. However, I agree with MKB and others that it's good to establish some structure in your and your D's lives.

Giving you at least a few hours advanced notice when she visits should not cause trouble. She might act as though she is offended, but she'll learn those are the consequences of her actions.

Also, the advanced notice will allow you to leave so your W can actually see the difference. She will notice you are not there anymore. See how it goes. If the new approach doesn't work, then you can always change it.

[Denver_2010]

I mostly agree with dbmod, but still, there needs to be structure. Children need and crave structure. Also, you are only putting off the inevitable. Such liberal parenting schedules are simply not possible if there is a divorce. IMO, might as well show your W what the reality is, and also, unfortunately, your D. That's my opinion anyway.

[Starsky309]

I don't think he was saying to discourage visitation. Merely to set some boundaries so that it is productive and positive rather than being something that makes one parent feel uncomfortable. My H knows he can visit or take them at any time he would like. However, I do ask he give me a days notice and let me know when he will pick up and drop off. That is what I would ask of ANYONE. Not just H. I don't think that just allowing the spouse to come and go as they please with no real expectations is really good for anyone.

This. ^^^


LIBERAL, yes. But also STRUCTURED. Open-ended, unstructured visitation isn't good for anyone -- even D8.


Starsky

[Arsene]

Thank you all for your comments,

First let me start by saying how this all feels wrong. W is here now, redeeming her "sleep-over coupon" and we aren't talking. They were at the pool when I got home from work and they just got home now. I said hi, was civil to W and playful with D8. They had dinner (I went to my room while they ate) and D8 got ready for bed. I put D8 to bed and W went in to tell her a story.

W has been distant. She is cold and even angry sounding. I even heard her tell the maid to make sure to leave the key out. I guess she's planning to go out later tonight. It's almost like I've taken a huge step back. Is this really suppose to get me my wife back? Isn't she going to think that she was right to leave me?

About setting more boundaries for visitation, for the time being I don't think it's necessary. I feel ok with the way things are for now but I thank you for your concern and your advice. So far W has given me warning and been more precise as to what time she was coming. She seems to be respecting this boundary so I'll leave it at that for now.

SIGH!!!! Is that what they mean when they say counter intuitive? This is going to be harder than I thought!!

[Arsene]

Well, she did leave the house once D8 was asleep and went to a nearby internet cafe. I saw her on FB and we exchanged a "few" words. She just got back and went straight to bed. I was in my bedroom so we didn't meet. I sure hope this gets easier.