DB Bootcamp - NASCARDaddy, ericsmant2 and various

[sgctxok]

Requesting a Vet/mentor for NASCARDaddy.


NASCAR-
Please briefly post your story and what you would like to work on with a mentor (eg, setting goals, specific DB skills, etc).

[NASCARDaddy]

Briefly my story is this. My wife and I have been married for fifteen years and have five amazing kids. I came from and abusive home and I have had my struggles with anger over the years, and this and a few struggles with pornography over the years eventually pushed my wife to her limit and she filled for divorce. Currently we have been separated for about a month, but because of a change in the divorce laws in the state of Utah the earliest the courts will consider the divorce petition is October 22. A more detailed account of my story can be found here.

I guess that there are three major areas that I want to work on. The first is goal setting. I have one really big, and probably somewhat unrealistic goal, which is to be back together with my wife by the end of September. The reason for this is that my second oldest son turns twelve at the end of September and that is a major milestone in our religion. In our church all men play some role in the priesthood of the church and 12 is when you are first ordained to be a member of the priesthood. I am not really sure what to compare it to in other churches, but I guess it is kind of like first Communion in the Catholic Church or a Bar-Mitzvah for Jewish young men. However, recognizing both the enormity and the possibly unrealistic nature of that goal* I would like help learning how to set more manageable and realistic goals.

The second area I would like to work on is keeping a positive attitude. W is completely closed off from me right now and I have to admit to thinking at least once or twice a day that things would just be easier if I threw my hands up in the air, gave up, and walked away. However that is not what I want, and I would like to have someone work with me to help me to develop the skills to keep going and keep positive.

The last thing that I want to work on, and what has proven to be the hardest for me so far is Do Nothing. The reason this is hard for me is because my basic personality is that of a Builder or a Fixer. When things are broken I want to fix them. I have always been service oriented and driven to help other people and the hardest thing in the world for me to do is to simply do nothing. So I need help learning to do that as well.

[NASCARDaddy]

Keeping a positive attitude and and developing and maintaining positive self esteem has been the biggest problem for me, at least this week. So right now this is a big thing that I would like to have someone help me work on.

[ericmsant2]

Keeping a positive attitude and and developing and maintaining positive self esteem has been the biggest problem for me, at least this week. So right now this is a big thing that I would like to have someone help me work on.

Why don't you have a positive attitude? What is it that you feel?

In terms of self esteem...what don't you like about yourself? Be honest...looks, smarts, sex...what is it dude?

Eric

[NASCARDaddy]

Well as far as what I feel, I pretty much feel sad and afraid. Sad because my relationship with W seems to be steadily deteriorating in no small part thanks to my inability to detach and let go. Fear because I am afraid that I will never get her back and that I will never be able to find someone else. And I am afraid that I will be stuck in this rut that I find myself in for the rest of my life.

Smarts and sex are okay. I was able to pass law school with a C+ average and barely opened a text book the whole time I was there. I'm sure I could have done better if I had tried. Unfortunately the D means that I don't get to go back. Sex is not happening but I believe that sex should only be between husband and wife so with W out of the picture it is not something I am focused on. As a man I do think about it sometimes but not often.

Big problem is looks and ability to make friends. I have never really been happy with my appearance, and the fact that I have put on over 60 lbs since we got married hasn't helped much. Of course over the last few months a healthier diet and steady exercise have helped give some of it back, but I still look back at old photos and wonder if I could ever be that thin again.

I also struggle with meeting new people. I was a pretty geeky kid growing up and my family moved around a lot and so I never really had many friends or learned really how to make them. So I have a hard time getting out and meeting new people.

[ericmsant2]

The problem is that I don't know where to begin. I think that one of the first things I need to change is my self talk.

Honestly dude….where to begin is sitting in front of a mirror with yourself and being honest about YOU. I also think that TRUST is a key component….trusting YOURSELF that is.

On a personal note….the biggest thing was in one way the smallest thing…….I made myself a promise….a promise to be the BEST that I could be. That is how is started dude.

Well as far as what I feel, I pretty much feel sad and afraid

I know these feelings well man. Chit I huge out with FEAR and SADNESS for a LOOOOOONNNNGGG time. So please know that you are not alone buddy.

Sad because my relationship with W seems to be steadily deteriorating in no small part thanks to my inability to detach and let go.

(((hugs))) dude…but look that line up there ^^^^ sounds like it is coming from a defeated man. And Dude YOU and defeated!

I want you to know something…I want you to sit back, crack open a beer and thinking about this……

YOU NASCARDaddy….saw when “it’s over”. That’s right buddy…she can serve you papers, leave the house, move all the way across the country but YOU Nascar and ONLY YOU…say when you are done! Yep – you have that power buddy. I know you may think I’m crazy right – I’m not.

Fear because I am afraid that I will never get her back and that I will never be able to find someone else.

FEAR buddy is a FEELING…. It goes and it comes… Ya know I used to feel the same way..I’ll never find someone, I have three kids, who will want me, I am nothing, blah, blah, blah. F*CK THAT! I did find someone…they love my kids and the best thing that happened NASCAR….was that I learned to FACE FEAR. I learned man, that I only can control me! That something are out of my control and that….THAT IS OKAY and really is a part of life.

“fear I may not get her back”……Hmmmm…you will NOT if you have that attitude. YOU will not UNLESS you can learn about YOU, UNLESS you start to peel back the layers of your soul that are holding you back, UNLESS you learn how to face the fear. Let me give you an example….

YOU FEAR that you will lose her – YET you have not.

YOU FEAR that you will not find anyone else – F*ck dude ya have not even tried yet (not that I am suggesting that).

YOU fear Nascar what you do not control – a lot of us did/do….guess what though…change how you look at things and accept your feelings.

I was able to pass law school with a C+ average and barely opened a text book

Damn dude…you must be smart. My GF was going to go to law school (and trust me….she is smart) but decided instead to go for her MBA. She said law school was too hard. So KUDOS to YOU man!

Big problem is looks and ability to make friends.

All things that are fixable! I was 238 when I heard the BD…I am now…205, after initially going down to 175. So if you do not LIKE your looks what do you want to change?

I also struggle with meeting new people

So did I man….guess what….allow me to introduce myself, My name is Eric XXXX (don’t want the mods to get mad at me), I am a 42 year old Puerto Rican male that lives in CT. I have three wonderful kids and a great gf. I am a kick as* dude and some of the best people in my life I met on these boards. I love to watch basketball, cook and have now become a winery lover. So…nice to meet you Nascar. What else can you tell me about you?

[NASCARDaddy]

Well lets see My name is David. I am a 39 year old transplant from California living in Utah. I have five kids that are the most wonderful part of my life right now. My oldest is starting football this year and playing wide receiver. Obviously from my username I am a big fan of NASCAR. I like cooking, basketball, and football.

[NASCARDaddy]

And yeah, I am afraid of losing control. I feel like everything in my world is spinning out of control and I don't even begin to know where to start to make sense of it.

[NASCARDaddy]

Here are the other threads I have going on right now:

Thread #2
Thread #3

[ericmsant2]

I like cooking, basketball, and football

College basketball or pros?

Here are the other threads I have going on right now:

Can you please try and stick to one thread. It is a little easier.

Let me know which one you want to keep.

Keep posting and let us know what is going on.

Eric

[NASCARDaddy]

Both college and pros.

[ericmsant2]

Nascar...

Are we gonna stick with this thread?

How are you feeling today?

Eric

[NASCARDaddy]

Yeah, I am gonna stick to this thread. Mostly today I feel confused. Confused as to whether I should stick things out and try and make things work with W or just move on and try and find another relationship. Confused as to whether I believe W when she said that she would take me back after I got myself together or when she said that she will never let me back into her life. I just don't know which way to turn right now and it is making me crazy.

[NASCARDaddy]

I guess I just don't know whether to believe her when she says that it is over and begin looking for someone else or if I should keep trying to find ways to fix things with W and continue to look towards R.

[ericmsant2]

Mostly today I feel confused

Normal dude…your actually probably still in a little shock. Add to that FEAR has a grip on your emotions right now…

Confused as to whether I should stick things out and try and make things work with W or just move on and try and find another relationship.

The choice to stick it out can only be made by YOU. What I will say is that whatever you decide make sure you have no REGRETs. As for another relationship…I think you are crazy to even consider that. It seems like you cannot be ALONE and that you are RUNNING into the arms of someone else – not much different that a lot of the other WAS. Is that what you really want?

Confused as to whether I believe W when she said that she would take me back after I got myself together or when she said that she will never let me back into her life. I just don't know which way to turn right now and it is making me crazy.

Dude, I have to run to a meeting and then pick up my car at the shop so I want to give you a few things to do….

1) Take a step back for a second and POST…what kind of MAN YOU WANT to be. Be as specific as possible.
2) Ask yourself the hard question….what does a committed R look like to YOU.
3) What do YOU want in your life to make you HAPPY.
4) What goal other than you W do you really have. BE VERY SPECIFIC.
5) Outside of sports….what else do you want to do in your life that is fun
6) Finally, what is your W like….write down 10 GOOD qualities she has.

NASCAR….marriages are not fixed in a week or so…nor are the destroyed in a week or so. Give yourself time.

.....In sickness and in X
.....For Better or for X

God Bless,
Eric

[ericmsant2]

I guess I just don't know whether to believe her when she says that it is over and begin looking for someone else or if I should keep trying to find ways to fix things with W

Do you ALWAYS do what YOUR W says?

NASCAR....right now you have an opportunity to stand up for what YOU want in YOUR LIFE. Your W does not decide that YOU DO.

[ericmsant2]

One more thing to consider....

S 14, S 11, S 9, D 7, D 5

Okay....gotta run..

[NASCARDaddy]

Dude, I have to run to a meeting and then pick up my car at the shop so I want to give you a few things to do….

1) Take a step back for a second and POST…what kind of MAN YOU WANT to be. Be as specific as possible.
2) Ask yourself the hard question….what does a committed R look like to YOU.
3) What do YOU want in your life to make you HAPPY.
4) What goal other than you W do you really have. BE VERY SPECIFIC.
5) Outside of sports….what else do you want to do in your life that is fun
6) Finally, what is your W like….write down 10 GOOD qualities she has.

NASCAR….marriages are not fixed in a week or so…nor are the destroyed in a week or so. Give yourself time.

.....In sickness and in X
.....For Better or for X

God Bless,
Eric

1) Honestly I have not given much thought to that. I have been so focused on changing what she says that she doesn't like about me that I have not ever thought what I want for myself. I guess what I want is to have peace in my life and in my soul, to have a career that I can feel proud of and help other people, and to make enough money so that my wife doesn't have to work and can stay home with the kids like she has always wanted. As far as what I want to be like, I want to be kind, wise, compassionate, happy, and hopeful.

2) A committed reconciliation to me is one where we are both happy, I have moved back home, we spend time with each other and we feel love for each other again. My children are happy and feel secure, we spend time doing activities as a family and we have a happy life together.

3) That is an easy one. I want my family intact. That is what would make me happy. However, personally losing another 30 lbs and getting back into school would make me happy on a personal level.

4) I don't really have a lot of things that I like to do for fun. Listen to music, watch movies, cook, and read mostly.

5) She is kind, independent, friendly, strong willed, spiritual, generous, compassionate, patient, hard working, loving, a great mother, and a great friend.

[NASCARDaddy]

Confused as to whether I should stick things out and try and make things work with W or just move on and try and find another relationship.

The choice to stick it out can only be made by YOU. What I will say is that whatever you decide make sure you have no REGRETs. As for another relationship…I think you are crazy to even consider that. It seems like you cannot be ALONE and that you are RUNNING into the arms of someone else – not much different that a lot of the other WAS. Is that what you really want?

It is not so much that I can't be alone; it is more that after fifteen years it feels weird to not have anyone in my life. I have gotten used to having someone that I could talk to or even someone to just be there in the same room with me.

[NASCARDaddy]

I guess I just don't know whether to believe her when she says that it is over and begin looking for someone else or if I should keep trying to find ways to fix things with W

Do you ALWAYS do what YOUR W says?

NASCAR....right now you have an opportunity to stand up for what YOU want in YOUR LIFE. Your W does not decide that YOU DO.

That's the problem, I don't know what I want to do. On any given day I wake up wanting to get back together with her, spending half the day wishing I could just talk to her, and go to bed never wanting to see her again. Honestly I do want her back but some days it just seems like too much work and I am not sure that I am strong enough to do what it takes.

[ericmsant2]

I have been so focused on changing what she says that she doesn't like about me that I have not ever thought what I want for myself.

focused on changing what SHE says that she doesn't like...Hmmm... that line tell you something?

I have not ever thought what I want for myself.

Now is a GOOD time. My only advice though is that if you want to think about what YOU want for YOU...it usually means that YOU DO NOT involve someone else. If you do, then it usually means you spend more time thinking about THEM, especially in a new R.

and to make enough money so that my wife doesn't have to work and can stay home with the kids like she has always wanted.

How about...to make enough money to do things that I want to do for MYSELF and for my family.

As far as what I want to be like, I want to be kind, wise, compassionate, happy, and hopeful.

THen do it. Start today.... everyday wake up and say I will be kind, wise, compassionate, HAPPY and HOPEFUL. No better time to start then today. Right?

However, personally losing another 30 lbs and getting back into school would make me happy on a personal level.

Then FOCUS ON THIS ^^^^ you have CONTROL over THIS ^^^^. What is your plan for the weight loss? Do you have a plan for going back to school?

She is kind, independent, friendly, strong willed, spiritual, generous, compassionate, patient, hard working, loving, a great mother, and a great friend.

THen remember that before you throw in the towel.

I have gotten used to having someone that I could talk to or even someone to just be there in the same room with me.

I love to talk....only problem is I am on the other side of the country so I can't do the room thing.

Eric

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Nascar,

I hesitate to step in here, got enough on my plate and I get the feeling you might be the type that makes me want to push my head through a brick wall. : )

That being said:

Anyone...ANYONE can do the 'better' part of for better or worse, yeah?

But willing to bet cash money, that you said 'for better OR worse'...

This is the worse part.

Live up to your word, at least do your best in that regard.

[NASCARDaddy]

I have been so focused on changing what she says that she doesn't like about me that I have not ever thought what I want for myself.

focused on changing what SHE says that she doesn't like...Hmmm... that line tell you something?
Eric

Well to be honest, there is a lot that she doesn't like that I don't like about myself either. I want to get rid of the anger that I carry around with me all the time and when I do get upset I want to be able to deal with it better. I don't want my kids and my wife to be scared of me anymore. And I want to ditch the porn because I just get angry at myself when I do view porn and then the cycle of anger just starts all over again. And I do want to be the type of man that makes a woman feel safe and respected. Basically I want to be the type of person that I could respect.

[NASCARDaddy]

Nascar,

I hesitate to step in here, got enough on my plate and I get the feeling you might be the type that makes me want to push my head through a brick wall. : )

Don't. I have never done it but I did put my fist through a cinder block wall one and that did not feel very good so I imagine that it [censored] to put your head through a brick wall.

[quote}That being said:

Anyone...ANYONE can do the 'better' part of for better or worse, yeah?

But willing to bet cash money, that you said 'for better OR worse'...

This is the worse part.

Live up to your word, at least do your best in that regard. [/quote]
Actually, being LDS, our wedding ceremony is a little different. Instead of for better or worse we say "for time and all eternity" and that is still what I want. It is just difficult at times because I never imagined that this would happen to us and I never saw it coming. I left for law school in January and things were good and then I come home five months later and within a few weeks she is telling me that she is not happy, she doesn't feel love for me any more, and that she doesn't think our marriage is worth saving. This isn't something that I saw coming for years, it just came out of the blue and I am still trying to process it all.

[NASCARDaddy]

Just got back from a meeting with my bishop (the equivalent of a pastor in the LDS church) and he basically told me that NC is the way to go right now. He also met with my W after services on Sunday and said that he feels that she is struggling emotionally with the decision to file and that based on their meeting together he is not sure that she will follow through with D. He also told me that she told him that things started to go bad about 8 to 10 months ago, which is a much different story than she is telling me.

Just for the record I did not ask him about any of this. I was meeting with him for a different purpose and he volunteered the information to me. I have shared information with him about how I am doing in the past; I feel that I owe that much since the Church is the one paying my therapist. However, until he volunteered this information I have not talked to him about my W without her present. I am not really sure how to process this information or how to make it square with what W is saying to me. I know that one of the 37 rules i ". Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see," but do I weight this information heavier then what I am getting from my W, do I disregard it, or what do I do with it?

[MrBond]

You don't discredit the information, but you just file it away and use it if an opportunity presents itself. The WAS is like a hurricane, you really don't know which way they'll go and they are in constant motion.

Continue to DB and see how her reactions are to you. That's the best way.

[NASCARDaddy]

Okay, so this is a pretty serious question and I something that I have been struggling with this morning. What do you do when the silence get too loud, the space begins to make you claustrophobic, and all you want to do is call her so that you can hear her voice even if she is yelling at you and telling you how much she hates you?

Also my MIL contacted me via Facebook and wants to know what happened between me and my W. She says W "was so much in love with you on your wedding day and she was so happy. What on earth happened?" What should I tell her? How in depth into our problems should I go?

[ericmsant2]

Nascar

I want to get rid of the anger that I carry around with me all the time and when I do get upset I want to be able to deal with it better.

I want a new Jeep dude….but if I DO NOT DO THE WORK (i.e. save money) well then my dream will never be realized. That said, what are YOU doing to get rid of the anger? What is your ACTIONABLE plan?

Actions NOT WORDS.

I don't want my kids and my wife to be scared of me anymore

WHY where they SCARED of YOU to begin with? Psst….it may be one of the reason SHE does not want to TALK. Trust is earned dude and it takes time.

And I want to ditch the porn because I just get angry at myself when I do view porn and then the cycle of anger just starts all over again.

Then JUST DO IT. Period. Make a promise to YOURSELF to change that part of YOU. It may seem that I am making everything appear easy dude – it’s not. One step at a time…and maybe the first step is to start a plan for how you can change some things.

And I do want to be the type of man that makes a woman feel safe and respected. Basically I want to be the type of person that I could respect.

Great GOAL. Can you tell me…what does RESPECT mean TO YOU? How do you DEFINE it? How do YOU FEEL IT? What does someone need to do for YOU to FEEL RESPECTED?

It is just difficult at times because I never imagined that this would happen to us and I never saw it coming.

DBing is not for the faint of Heart. YOU say that you want her BACK….SHOW it buddy. Show it in YOUR Actions! Maybe Nascar she wants RESPECT too (see comment above)…maybe HER definition of RESPECT is TIME and SPACE. Can you give her that? Can you let her go and really FOCUS ON YOU?

she doesn't feel love for me any more,

Ya know I almost broke up with my GF last week…cause how I was FEELING. Guess what? My Feelings CHANGED. SO could hers. A lot of times dude, we the LBS’s need to ride out the storm so that we RESPECT our partners and give them what THEY need. As Jack said…this is the “worse” part.

He also met with my W after services on Sunday and said that he feels that she is struggling emotionally with the decision to file and that based on their meeting together he is not sure that she will follow through with D.

I call that ^^^ HOPE. Look to be honest with you, your M may not make it; however NO ONE knows for sure. What I do know is that DBing, if done properly (properly is defined by each person’s sitch) gives YOU the BEST shot. The key thought that many do not realized and FOCUS on is the ISSUE they had. Many times people just look at the WAW and bi*ch and moan about how F’d up they are or what they are doing to the LBS. The LBS get “stuck” in the pity party woa is me mentality and DELAYS OR AVOIDS dealing with their own chit. Nascar, don’t be that guy. Please dude, FOCUS ON YOU and YOUR LIFE. BECOME the MAN YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO BE.

What do you do when the silence get too loud, the space begins to make you claustrophobic, and all you want to do is call her so that you can hear her voice even if she is yelling at you and telling you how much she hates you?

YOU DO NOT CALL. YOU do something else, you FOCUS ON YOU. YOU RESPECT HER SPACE.

Nascar, hearing her voice right now is just gonna cause you PAIN.

She says W "was so much in love with you on your wedding day and she was so happy. What on earth happened?" What should I tell her? How in depth into our problems should I go?

Please dude…keep the in-laws out of it. The more you tell them the more your W will feel like you are manipulating her. Trust me, telling a WAS mom and dad usually does not do any good – at least not yet. That time will come buddy. As for what you should say….I would thank her for her concern, express that you love your W and that the two of you are just trying to work through some stuff. Then keep it light buddy. Turn the convo back to your MIL and see how SHE is doing. Keep the convo short.

[NASCARDaddy]

My action plan for getting rid of my anger consists of four steps, 1) identify, 2) therapy, 3) self awareness, and 4) prayer.

1) Identify: I will identify the sources of my anger so that I can understand what triggers an anger response in me. Some of these sources are things that I have recognized for a long time. Being a child of abuse I have been carrying a lot of anger since I was a young man over the abuse and neglect that I suffered as a child. Others have taken time to understand and I am certain that there maybe more that I need to identify. For example it is only in the last week that I realized that one of the reason I would get so angry with my wife is because she would continue to push me to talk about things that were bothering me when I wasn't ready to and so I would lash out because I felt backed into a corner and felt the need to defend against what my old brain perceived as an attack.

2) Therapy: I am currently in therapy with someone who has had a lot of experience working in anger management. Like I said, I have recognized a lot of the sources of my anger for a long time, but I made the mistake of thinking that because I knew why I was angry I could deal with that anger on my own. By working with a therapist I have been able to understand that not only is that a self destructive attitude in and of itself but that by doing so I was only feeding my anger because I would direct more anger inward every time I failed to deal with it or keep it contained on my own.

3) Self Awareness: This is where I am beginning to work at now. By recognizing that a situation is likely to trigger an anger response with me I can short circuit that response and react in a different way. Every time I can break the circuit and react in a way that is different than my W expects is one more step on the road to showing her the changes I am making.

4) I am a spiritual man and so I feel that there is no harm in asking the man upstairs for help now and then. If nothing else, prayer gives me a way to talk about my problems with someone who is absolutely impartial.

WHY where they SCARED of YOU to begin with? Psst….it may be one of the reason SHE does not want to TALK. Trust is earned dude and it takes time.

It is mostly because I don't handle my anger well. When I get angry I will yell, throw things, pace around the room, and slam doors. Although I have never harmed anyone when I have been angry my W is afraid that I might one day and has expressed this fear to my children so that they have adopted it to.

Great GOAL. Can you tell me…what does RESPECT mean TO YOU? How do you DEFINE it? How do YOU FEEL IT? What does someone need to do for YOU to FEEL RESPECTED?

To me respect means that someone takes my feelings into account when making decisions that impact me. It means that they keep an open mind when I am talking to them and don't simply reject my ideas out of hand. It means that rather than trying to force one viewpoint or the other that sometimes we just agree to disagree and move on. It means being trusting and honest with me and that if I need space that you give it to me. It means talking to me when you have a problem rather than going behind my back and telling your best friend what a rat you think I am. And it means that you respect who I am and don't try and pressure me into things.

[NASCARDaddy]

A lot of times dude, we the LBS’s need to ride out the storm so that we RESPECT our partners and give them what THEY need. As Jack said…this is the “worse” part.

This is the hard part for me. Patience has never been my strongest virtue and so I am struggling with the idea that the best thing to do right now is nothing.

[ericmsant2]

Hey Nascar...

Sorry been a little busy dude. I just posted to someone else and right now I'm taking my kids to the pool. I will check in late tonight.

Stay strong. I have a few things to say.

Peace,
Eric

[NASCARDaddy]

No prob.

[MrBond]

"What do you do when the silence get too loud, the space begins to make you claustrophobic, and all you want to do is call her so that you can hear her voice even if she is yelling at you and telling you how much she hates you?"

Then you do whatever it takes to get your mind off of her. GAL!

"Also my MIL contacted me via Facebook and wants to know what happened between me and my W. She says W "was so much in love with you on your wedding day and she was so happy. What on earth happened?" What should I tell her? How in depth into our problems should I go?"

This is a very very fine line to walk. IMHO, I would thank her for her concern and that you are trying your hardest to get things to work out and honestly don't know the exact reason why your W left since her reasons change. I don't think you need to give her exact reasons. If your W finds out, she's going to twist whatever you tell her mom so that you look like the bad guy.

[NASCARDaddy]

That is essentially what I told her. The reason MIL contacted me to find out what happened is because my W will not talk to her about it. My MIL was divorced by her husband one month after W was born and did not remarry for 29 years, so she has been trying to talk W out of getting the divorce. I have tried to discourage this, but I can only control what I do. I am just hoping that MIL doesn't make things any worse.

[MrBond]

If your MIL is all for saving the marriage, count that as a plus in the positive column. It's way better than having an IL that is against you.

Be sure to thank her for her support.

[lillystillinlove]

Nascar,

I like this:

To me respect means that someone takes my feelings into account when making decisions that impact me. It means that they keep an open mind when I am talking to them and don't simply reject my ideas out of hand. It means that rather than trying to force one viewpoint or the other that sometimes we just agree to disagree and move on. It means being trusting and honest with me and that if I need space that you give it to me. It means talking to me when you have a problem rather than going behind my back and telling your best friend what a rat you think I am. And it means that you respect who I am and don't try and pressure me into things.

Thanks, it's helping me figure out what I think respect is. Good luck with your journey.

[NASCARDaddy]

Thank you Lilly. I wish you luck on your journey as well.

[NASCARDaddy]

Tonight I am going to the temple for the first time since my W and I separated. It is not going to be easy for me because I usually go with my W but it is something that my bishop and I agree is a key part of my spiritual healing. (For more information on why temples are important to members of my church read this article.) Anyway, I am not sure what is going happen this evening. Either I will feel better about things when I get back or I will have a complete emotional breakdown. But one way or the other I think it will be good for me.

[NASCARDaddy]

Well how about both an emotional breakdown and feeling better when I got done? On the down side she wants me to go with her tomorrow and sign some papers so she can file them with the court. She says that they are just to show that I have seen the divorce papers. I really hate this. I wish that she would stop being in such a hurry to get the divorce over with and just give things a chance like she originally said she would.

[NASCARDaddy]

So what do I say when I see her today? What do I do when she asks me to sign these papers she has? I don't mind admitting that I am scared right now. I am scared because she is the love of my life and I am watching her slip away from me faster and faster every day.

[ericmsant2]

Nascar

On the down side she wants me to go with her tomorrow and sign some papers so she can file them with the court. She says that they are just to show that I have seen the divorce papers. I really hate this.

I am sorry man. I remember the pain, hurt, fear…emotions that took over me when I went through this. I am really sorry man. I found that what worked for me was nice long walks where I would examine myself…where I would make promises to MYSELF. The gym helped, the boards helped….Keep yourself busy dude.

I wish that she would stop being in such a hurry to get the divorce over with and just give things a chance like she originally said she would.

Right NOW she may feel that this is what she needs to do.

So what do I say when I see her today?

Say as little as possible. I know you are probably thinking “what say nothing – WTF”. It is best to NOT speak when emotions are high. I would greet her pleastly and keep the convo very light. If she asked how you are doing…please do not go into a long rant about how sorry you are, how much you promise to change, etc. What are the D laws in your state? How long will this take?

[NASCARDaddy]

I did not talk to her much. The only thing I did say to her about the R was to ask her what she means when she say she doesn't "see kindness in my eyes." On the other hand, she did leave a sales receipt on my seat "accidentally" and I do find it quite interesting that she has bought a bunch of new lingerie after accusing me of just treating her like a sex object. I am beginning to question if anything that she has told me was on the level.

As for the divorce laws in Utah, there is a 90 day "cooling off period" that you have to undergo before the court is even legally allowed to consider the divorce petition. That means that unless I sign a waiver agreeing to give up that period, which I have already made quite plain that I will not, the first day that the court could consider the petition is October 22. And even though I am not contesting the divorce there will still have to be divorce education classes because we have kids, at least one hearing, and some other things happen. Based on how backed up the courts are that could put us into November or December before the divorce is actually final.

[NASCARDaddy]

I did go and talk to her grandma today to try and talk out some of the problems and feelings I have been having, especially the the fact that she is buying sexy lingerie for the OM that she would never have agreed to wear for me. And before anyone starts lecturing me about recruiting her grandma is dead, so talking to her seems pretty safe. And yeah, although I did not believe it before I am convinced that the only reason to buy stuff like that is because there is an OM.

[ericmsant2]

was to ask her what she means when she say she doesn't "see kindness in my eyes.

When did see say this?
BTW – do you have a lawyer?

On the other hand, she did leave a sales receipt on my seat "accidentally" and I do find it quite interesting that she has bought a bunch of new lingerie after accusing me of just treating her like a sex object.

Do you think OP is involved?
Do you know what the laws are in your state regarding infidelity?
Why did you move out of the house?

[ericmsant2]

Nascar

How often do you see the kids?

Do they spend nights over your house? If so, how often?

What does your W do for a living (if I recall you are looking work).

[NASCARDaddy]

do you have a lawyer?

I have informal legal council but I don't have a lawyer representing me. Neither does my W. That was the one good thing about having to sign the paper today is that she is still listed as representing herself Pro Se, which is the legal term for representing yourself. I also have two years of law school under my belt so I feel comfortable that between myself and the lawyer that I have been working with we can handle most of the legal issues that come up. Particularly since in discussions with my attorney friend we have decided that I am not going to contest the divorce if it goes that far.

When did see say this?

She has told me that she doesn't see kindness in my eyes on multiple occasions. The last time was on Sunday during a big argument that we had when I asked her when I was going to get to see my kids this week. I decided that I would wait until a time when we were not fighting to try and find out what she meant. When I asked her today her answer was "Just that, Why do we have to talk about this?" I told her that I would like to know what she meant but that if she did not feel like talking about it now that we did not have to and ended the conversation.

Do you think OP is involved?
Do you know what the laws are in your state regarding infidelity?

After going for a long walk to clear my head, I have begun to question if there is an OM. Here is what I know objectively. W has been posting profiles on dating websites, she went on a lunch date with a guy last Monday, and she was shopping for lingerie yesterday. Although there being an OM does fit the facts as I have them; I admit that it is not the only possibility or even the only reasonable possibility.

Why did you move out of the house?

I moved out of the house because at the time I felt that some space would increase the chances of us being able to reconcile. That is actually still the only decision I have made in this whole process that I have not second guessed. Even if we don't get back together I have needed the space for myself to get a grip on what I want to change about myself and be able to start the healing process.

How often do you see the kids?

Do they spend nights over your house? If so, how often?

It varies but I usually see them a couple of times a week. I have been going over to our house to watch them two to four days a week while wife is at work. Once school starts in a week that will decrease significantly. Once they are back in school I will probably see them one or two nights a week.

What does your W do for a living (if I recall you are looking work).

Wife manages a fast food franchise and so she works 50 to 70 hours a week. I am convinced that the stress of her working so much has magnified our problems in her eyes. She, of course, doesn't agree with me but in more objective times before she started down the "I have never loved you or been happy in our marriage" road she said that she thought that things were going pretty good in our relationship right up until about the time last year that she took that job. We had struggled a bit when I first lost my job about four years ago, but according to her the last year had been good until about December or January.

[NASCARDaddy]

Sorry, missed one answer. No, the kids don't sleep over at my house. I am living in my brother's guest room right now and there is not enough space for my kids to sleep over.

[NASCARDaddy]

Honestly, I sometimes wonder if the problem in my marriage is not that I have been to aggressive but too passive. I mean honestly applying for the MPA program is the first thing I have done because it is what I wanted to do in a long time. Mostly I have just gone with the flow and did whatever other people have wanted me to do. The first time that I put my foot down with my W is when she asked my to sign that waiver and it felt good. It upset her a great deal that I did that but at the same time it felt good to say no to her. But even then I have waffled back and forth over whether I actually did the right thing.

I wish I could learn to be more assertive, I think that a lot of my anger comes from me not ever saying no to anyone and then getting angry at myself because what I did not want to do what I agreed to do. Although at the same time I don't see how being more assertive would help right now.

[NASCARDaddy]

What I really want to do is go find her, push her up against a wall and kiss her until she kisses me back, tell her that I love her and that I am not going to let her leave me, and scoop her up in my arms and carry her off into the sunset. You know, like you see in all those romantic movies she loves to watch. But the very idea of doing that scares the living crap out of me because I am afraid that it will push her so far away that I will never get her back and maybe land me in jail too.

[NASCARDaddy]

The big question I have is when I make all of these changes that I need to make in my life, if she never sees them then how does it help our relationship? I understand that they make me a better person and I am all for that; however I am also all for saving the best thing that has happened to me in a long time with one of the most amazing people I have ever met.

[NASCARDaddy]

Sometimes the hardest thing in the world to do is nothing.

[NASCARDaddy]

After reading the six stages of a mid life crisis I have begun to wonder if that is what my W is going through. But at the same time as I understand it, 34 is too young to be having a MLC.

[MrBond]

No she's not too young, but usually a MLC is set off by a "trigger". Death of someone close to them, loss of a job, monumental birthday, etc. Something that has them re-visiting their life choices.

[~ kd ~]

What Bond said, and really... you need to look for confusion. That may take time to see. Things like extremely contradictory statements or severe "memory loss", which could appear as though lying or deceit.

You're still early here. If you know what you want, the move towards that goal. If you are still unsure, keep working on yourself.

[NASCARDaddy]

Your right and it is probably just wishful thinking on my part. I guess I am just trying to make sense out of all of this and understand how we can go from "I love you and can't imagine my life without you" in April to "I am not your wife," and "I will never let you be with me again" last week.

[NASCARDaddy]

Well I woke up this morning pretty much ready to throw in the towel and say that it just wasn't worth it to keep trying. But after I thought about it some and prayed about it, and I am going to keep trying to work on myself and look for opportunities to try and reach out to her.

[DaddyLongShanks]

Well I woke up this morning pretty much ready to throw in the towel and say that it just wasn't worth it to keep trying. But after I thought about it some and prayed about it, and I am going to keep trying to work on myself and look for opportunities to try and reach out to her.

Let go of the "reach out to her" part for now. If you can get excited in being able to get into yourself, and not worry about her for now while SHE sorts out what life changes she's doing, you will make it out ok. You will not convince her of anything at this point, it's why I said it won't be productive to even think about it or try. Like I said, have a really good weekend that you will enjoy.

[NASCARDaddy]

I received an e-mail just now that let me know that I have been accepted to the MPA program on a provisional basis. So at least one thing is going right to day.

[Rick1963]

Congrats on the MPA. Why provisional? Didn't think they did that in grad school.

Try not to make sense of any of this. It makes it more difficult. I have had a hard time letting go. I GAL till I collapsed many many times. Sometimes it helped sometimes it didn't. This is different for everyone. What screwed me and still does at times, is stinking thinking. Meaning that all is lost. How irrational isn't it? Keep living my friend. Smile be happy and let God. It all works out.

[NASCARDaddy]

Congrats on the MPA. Why provisional? Didn't think they did that in grad school.

It is provisional because I need to maintain a 3.0 GPA for the first two semesters. It's because I only had a 2.37 GPA in law school. I would have had a much better GPA but I did not take the work as seriously as I should have and only cracked a text book more than once every couple of weeks.

[NASCARDaddy]

However, I think they were willing to give me a chance because I graduated in the top 10% of my class in undergrad, and had letters of recommendation from the head of the humanities department at the university I was applying to, the associate dean of faculty affairs at my law school, and another law professor who used to work at the Justice Department as their top litigator and who used to clerk for the chief justice of the Supreme Court.

[NASCARDaddy]

Wow, depression is really setting in big time this morning. She is all that I can think about right now and even the things I normally do to get her off of my mind aren't working. I am just so afraid that we will not be able to work things out. I am more afraid that if we can't work things out that I will backslide and go back to old behaviors.

I have been keeping a journal since the start of the month and as I was writing in it I began to see that I have not been trying to change and do 180s I was trying to get her to see that I was doing 180s. For example, my therapist gave me a packet to work on about identifying sources of anger and strategies to deal with anger and the only time I have worked on it is when I have been at our house with my kids. Also I had put pornography filters on our home computer, but not on my laptop. And I was getting upset that she had posted profiles on dating websites but I had posted a few myself "just in case."

So last night I downloaded anti-pornography software to my laptop, canceled all my dating profiles and set the anti porn software to block dating websites as well, and then had my brother password lock the filter so that I can't override it. Lastly I located a pornography 12 step program in my area that is run by my church that I am going to start attending next Wednesday. I have not told her anything about any of this, the closet I have gotten is to tell her that I can have the kids over to the house any night but Wednesdays.

The reason I am afraid to lose her is that she inspires me. She believed that I was a better man then I thought I was and pushed me to become that better man. This is one of the many reasons that I love and respect her and don't want to lose her. Of course I fell short of the mark and hurt her. That is all she can see right now and I am scared that is all she will ever be able to see again.

In my mind the ironic thing is that she has been waiting for me to see the light and change and now that I am actually in that place she says that it is too late. I guess that the only thing that I can do is make the changes and hope that she comes around. If not then I will be that much of a better husband when or if another woman comes along.

[NASCARDaddy]

And yeah, I am pretty unsure of my dating skills if it comes to that. My W is the only person that I ever seriously dated and we met online so I didn't even have to overcome my shyness to find her. I feel like if I lose my W I will never be able to find someone else and I will end up alone. And that is a pretty frightening prospect for me.

[adinva]

Then your first job is to be someone who stands on his own as a valuable and good man. Forget your W or doing it for her, or for the next woman in your life. You need to be a whole person happy and content with yourself or you will not be a healthy addition to anyone else in a relationship. Search for all the things you don't like about yourself and fix them for yourself. Use this horrible circumstance with your W as the spark that sets off amazing life change for you and makes you into someone you are happy to be.

You CAN do that, and you CAN be happy.

[NASCARDaddy]

I have been doing more self reflection this morning and honestly I can say that I am beginning to see why she would feel like there is nothing worth saving in our marriage. I have behaved like an egotistical, self centered spoiled brat, particularly for the last few years. I have been very inwardly focused and trying to find ways to make myself feel happy, but instead of finding things that actually made me happy or realizing what I already had that made me happy I instead just turned to things that gave me pleasure and good feelings at the moment. And when I stopped feeling good I got angry and took it out on the people closest to me.

And I guess that I have been pretty controlling through this whole situation. It was not a conscious thing I was doing but the more I think about it the more I see that it was there. I have been focused on what I needed to do to get her to change her mind. Every time I would say "I know if we can just talk about things I know we could work them out" what she was hearing and what I am beginning to believe I meant is "if we just talk about things I know I can get you to change your mind."

The problem is that identifying the problem is easy. But how do I change it? How do I focus on changing myself and yet at the same time work on becoming less self focused? How do I let go and ignore what she is doing when she and my kids are the most important thing in the world to me? How do I forget and let go when the only reason I am even here is to try and find a way back?

[adinva]

If your W and kids are the most important things to you, then stop trying to control them! You recognized you're trying to get your W to change her mind because it's what you want and to heck with what SHE wants. You fixing that mentality is NOT going to make things worse, trust me.

How to change: Your awareness is the first step to changing, and you're starting to have that, and it's huge progress. Next comes catching yourself and thinking of what you should have done differently. Then you'll find yourself doing things differently and you should note and think about that. Finally, they'll gradually become less conscious and more just how you are. That's been my experience, at least.

[doubleAA]

hi,

the forum is asking me to start a new thread. how do i do that.

also, does anybody have the 37 rules of DB. I need for a friend, and my self.

[NASCARDaddy]

The 37 Rules are here. To start a new thread go out to the main page for the section and click on the button that says new topic at the top of the page. If you are continuing an existing thread jut name your new thread the same as the old one but add #2, #3, #4 etc. Otherwise just name it what ever you want.

[doubleAA]

Thanks, Nascar..

My prayers are for you, me and all the others that do not believ on the devil of divorce, and want to save their marriages..

God bless you all..

[NASCARDaddy]

If your W and kids are the most important things to you, then stop trying to control them! You recognized you're trying to get your W to change her mind because it's what you want and to heck with what SHE wants. You fixing that mentality is NOT going to make things worse, trust me.

How to change: Your awareness is the first step to changing, and you're starting to have that, and it's huge progress. Next comes catching yourself and thinking of what you should have done differently. Then you'll find yourself doing things differently and you should note and think about that. Finally, they'll gradually become less conscious and more just how you are. That's been my experience, at least.

I did manage to short circuit at least one attempt at controlling behaviors today. A few weeks back I was at our house taking care of the kids and doing some cleaning and I found her diary sitting out. So like an idiot I read it. I know that it was wrong to do that but at the time I just wanted to know what was going through her head. Anyway, today I had to walk over to the college so that I could see how long it will take me to walk to school.

While I was over there I thought that since I was already over near the house and I knew that nobody would be home at the time it would be really easy to go home and read her diary again. However I stopped myself and reminded myself that was one of the types of controlling behavior that I need and want to stop. It's a small victory, but it is a victory.

[NASCARDaddy]

So, here is a quick update on what has been going on. Last Sunday, she and I got into it via text message and went the rounds for a couple of hours. Monday morning was the same thing and at the point I told her that I was going NC for the most part. After that I had no more contact with her Monday, did not talk to her at all on Tuesday, and didn't talk to her until about 9:00 and that was because she called me.

Tuesday I had a meeting with our bishop. He told me that he had met with my W on Sunday and his impression is that she is struggling with her decision and that emotionally he doesn't feel that she has the emotional strength to go through with the D. I also met with a member of the Stake Presidency (a stake is a unit in the LDS church that is comprised of five to ten congregations and the stake presidency oversees those congregations) and he told me that I should be patient because he felt that things would work out.

Wednesday I went to the temple and after I got done I checked my phone my W had called me. She wanted me to go with her on Thursday morning to sign some papers that said that I had seen the divorce papers and that I consented to the court having jurisdiction over the divorce. It was not exactly the phone call that I had wanted to have but she did seem happy to speak to me and seemed really happy to hear that I had been to the temple.

Thursday we met to sign the papers. There was a lot of tension between us and she did not want to talk to me much. I did ask her about something that she has said to me a couple of times, which is that she does't see kindness in my eyes. She said "why do we have to talk about this," and I just let it go for the time being.

Thursday evening she brought the kids by and I got to spend the evening with them. That was the highlight of my week. I took them to the park, we had pizza, and we played and watched television. At the end of the night I decided that I would let the kids have my small collection of Transformers to take home with them. That has been a source of contention because my kids have wanted to play with them and I had them as collectors items. However, I decided that the kids should have them because I would rather have the kids have them and enjoy them then keep them myself. When she came to pick the kids up I mentioned to her some library books that the kids needed to return and that was all that I said.

Friday and today were back to NC. I called the house to thank her for letting the kids come over and to ask when she would let me see them again. To avoid any kind of conflict I called when I knew nobody would be home and left her a voice mail. I have yet to hear back from her. Also Friday I got an e-mail letting me know that I was accepted into the MPA program I had applied for.

There you go, everything that has happened between us this week. It has been a rough week in a lot of ways, such as having to find out that my oldest went to his first dance this week by him posting about it on Facebook. I really wish that things would turn around soon because I really miss my family. I also have no idea how long I should wait to hear from her about when I will see the kids again before trying to call back. I don't want to seem like I am badgering her, but I do want to see my kids.

[NASCARDaddy]

One of the things that continues to trouble me is the fact that she is unable to talk about the divorce at all. She either asks why we have to talk about it at all or she breaks down emotionally and tells me that she can't talk about it because when she does she feels like she is dying inside. I just don't understand why she insists on going forward with the D if she is that conflicted about it.

[NASCARDaddy]

Okay, so I suggested to another person that in order to stop trying to control things that they can't that they should set a series of goals for themselves that don't have anything to do with their spouse or their R. It sounds like such good advice (and I think I may have seen it here somewhere or had someone else give it to me) that I have decided to set my own series of goal. I suggested to the other person to look at one, five, and ten year goals. So here are mine.

One year goal: To maintain a 3.0 GPA in my masters program and to get at least one A each semester.

Five year goal: To find and keep employment in an agency or organization that allows me to work to better the lives of abused children.

Ten year goal: To put together an organization that travels around the world providing free medical care to impoverished nations and fast reaction emergency care to areas stricken by natural disasters. I know that this sounds like Doctor's without Borders, but my idea is that rather than going into remote areas and setting up primitive hospitals that my organization would operate somewhere between three and five small hospital ships that would travel to ports in stricken nations and offer all of the services of a first class and fully functional hospital. Each ship would stay in one area for a few weeks at a time and travel a fixed route. However if there were a natural disaster they would also have the capacity to respond quickly and I would also like to have emergency supplies and a small fleet of transport aircraft that could operate in primitive conditions that could be used to respond quickly to disaster areas and begin treating people as quickly as possible.

[NASCARDaddy]

There are days when I just feel like giving up and I know that is what she wants me to do. For some reason my W keeps trying to push me to be the one to end the marriage even though she is the one that filed for D. Whether it is pushing me to sign the waiver that would allow the divorce to proceed, telling me that I need to find someone else, or telling me that I should go be with the woman who I became involved in an EA with after we separated (which I broke off contact with her once I realized what was happening) she wants me to be the one that puts the final nail in the coffin for her.

I don't understand why that is. If she felt so strongly about the divorce to file for it, why does she want me to be the one to end our R? Is this a test to see if I really mean it when I say that the only thing I want is her and our kids? Should I read this as a hopeful sign? I am so confused right now; I wish I could stop wandering in the wilderness and find the promised land.

[NASCARDaddy]

So I talked to my W today. No R talk, just called to see when she was bringing the kids by this week. I did call her, because she still had not called me back from Friday. I wish I could have talked to her for more than about 30 seconds but I am trying to maintain NC as much as possible except for when it involves the kids. I have not given up hope, although some days are harder than others. A long time friend of her family, basically my W's surrogate dad in a lot of ways, came up to me at church and basically told me that I had better not give up on her. I don't know if he knows something that I don't but he has always been someone I have trusted for wisdom and advice so his encouragement really meant a lot to me. I have also in the last few weeks had the husband of one of her friends come up to me in church and tell me to keep trying because things will get better. He went through divorce a number of years back so he could just be giving me generic advice but in light of someone else who knows her really well telling me basically the same thing I wonder if they know something that I don't.

[NASCARDaddy]

The last few days have been pretty rough for me. Last night I spent a good portion of the night tossing and turning and thinking about my W. A good portion of that was spent wondering if she ever thinks about me or misses me. I know that I need to let those thoughts go and focus on things I can control, but that can be very difficult at 1:00 am. I kept having one thought run through my mind that was weird though. I kept thinking about the part of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers." I don't know why that would be a reoccurring thought right now because I have not studied anything about the Sermon on the Mount in quite awhile. I am a religious person and I do believe that God does send us messages through dreams and thoughts and stuff. If this is a message I just wish that he could be a little less cryptic.

[Breakdown]

One thing that has helped me was trusting that God has a plan, that the hardships we're facing are necessary because of changes that are needed. At first, I thought they were just changes in me, because that much seemed obvious. As I continue to grow, I think there are probably changes in my W that need to happen, maybe they are experiences my kids need (i.e. don't give up, marriage is important, vows are forever), or maybe it's something we'll share with someone else years from now that needs it. It's probably all these things honestly. I have stopped trying to explain it and just trust that it's necessary...work on the things I can control, and try to be a better person for me and my kids.

[NASCARDaddy]

I am a strong believer in things happening for a reason and in trials sometimes being disguised blessings. I have had it happen to me before. Back in 2000 I lost my job because I had a supervisor that didn't like me and got me fired. That was in August and I was pretty bummed even though I found another job in just a couple of weeks. In October the company that I had worked for announced they were closing the factory I had worked at and were laying everyone off just before Christmas. When that happened I realized that being fired when I was had really been a blessing because I had been able to get a new job before all the other workers flooded the job market and made it that much harder to get a job at that time.

[NASCARDaddy]

Okay, so this is probably a dumb question but once you go NC how long do you stay that way? I was reading a book that basically said that you go NC for a month and then you invite them to have lunch or something simple with you. However I have seen other places where it says that you go NC until they contact you. I am still waiting to get money to get copies of DR and DB so I am not sure what they have to say. Since we have kids and I see her when she drops them off and picks them up I know I can't go completely dark, so how do I handle that? What do I talk to her about when I see her? How do I tell if it is working? These are all questions that I have been struggling with.

[DaddyLongShanks]

One of the things that continues to trouble me is the fact that she is unable to talk about the divorce at all. She either asks why we have to talk about it at all or she breaks down emotionally and tells me that she can't talk about it because when she does she feels like she is dying inside. I just don't understand why she insists on going forward with the D if she is that conflicted about it.

I could talk to her. She knows it's wrong and has guilt, and believes if she moves forward and "forgets about it", that it wont hurt. It hurts even more!

I learned the hard way and can explain to someone going through the same tunnel. She won't feel good about herself, for lying to herself in this situation. She feels intense feelings about the affair, and coming home is going to cause her pain, guilt and remorse.

However what she doesn't know is this pain, guilt and remorse is alot less than what's going to happen if she moves forward. Perhaps she can talk to someone who has been in the same position.

If she knows for a fact that she's going to be ok coming home, that it's actually les pain, less bad feelings once she works on it . Also that she's going to feel those bad feelings, but the reward is she's going to feel a WHOLE BUNCH BETTER if she just comes home and gets over it.

[NASCARDaddy]

Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread but it is helpful for me to write down what I am thinking and feeling so I will continue to post. Today was my IC and we spent a lot of time talking about where I am at and some of the things that my W has been doing. My therapist said that perhaps one of the reasons that she keeps trying to suck me into the same argument over and over again is because she is trying to reinforce her commitment to the D. I have thought similar things in the past, but to have someone else say the same thing was both a surprise and a relief.

I am doing a lot better personally as well, I have finally reached a point where I want her back but I can say that I do not need her back. I am gonna be okay regardless of what happens. I can still think of lots of reasons why we should get back together, we have similar goals, she is the mother of my children, etc. but if that doesn't happen I will be okay. My life will go on and I will be happy regardless of what happens.

[Drew]

I have finally reached a point where I want her back but I can say that I do not need her back. I am gonna be okay regardless of what happens. I can still think of lots of reasons why we should get back together, we have similar goals, she is the mother of my children, etc. but if that doesn't happen I will be okay. My life will go on and I will be happy regardless of what happens.

That's a big step.

Just realize that it's only the first of many ....

[NASCARDaddy]

I am well aware that it is just the first step of many. It was a pretty big admission for me to make though. Today was a particularly difficult day. I started out doing pretty good and feeling like I could handle NC. But as the day went on it has been harder and harder not to miss her. I haven't had an urge to call her or anything, but I have struggled not to think about her and beat myself up over everything that has happened.

[NASCARDaddy]

This morning I got some positive news. I am going to start working on Monday. It is only a six month job training program, but at least it's a start. Besides, next year at this time I would just have to quit any job I had so I could start working on the 300 hours of internship that I need to graduate from the MPA program. So that is two positive things that have happened to me in the last two weeks. They say good things happen in threes, so I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[NASCARDaddy]

I am wondering if I should tell her about the job and the masters program since I am trying to maintain NC with her except as it relates to the kids. I am not sure how to approach the situation and I could really use some advice since I will see her tonight when she drops the kids off.

[Drew]

I am wondering if I should tell her about the job and the masters program since I am trying to maintain NC with her except as it relates to the kids.

Didn't you just answer your own question?

[NASCARDaddy]

Well I totally blew it tonight. When she came to pick up the kids she handed me some papers. She is petitioning to have the court declare that I have forfeited my right to visitation until I attend some mandatory parenting classes. According to her I told her that I refused to attend the classes. This is an out and out lie and I am filing a response to the petition saying exactly that. Unfortunately I broke radio silence and called her demanding to know when we had talked about this and when I told her that I refused to attend the classes. Of course, not only did I blow any benefit I had accrued by going NC, which clearly wasn't much, but I am also sure I just reinforced the anger issue with her. I am not sure where to go now, other then to file the paperwork with the court tomorrow. If she is going to be willing to perjure herself to try and bully me into signing the waiver and let the divorce proceed before the legally mandated waiting period is up then I think it's a safe bet that reconciliation is off the table for right now.

[NASCARDaddy]

Yesterday I had a quite enlightening talk with my W. She said to me that she knew that I hoped that she would change so that I could come home because she talks to the same people that I talk to (not sure who that would be since the only two people I have said that to are my bishop and my therapist and as far as I know she is not speaking to either of them). The she went into her usual comments about how she had changed and that did not include taking me back. But then she said something that she has never said before and that I wished I had caught and commented on at the time. She asked me "why would you want to come home anyway?" I missed that at the time because she jumped right in with asking me if I had even told my brother that we were getting divorced.

However, the more I think about it the more I am beginning to feel that statement actually has some significance in understanding where her mind is at right now. Before she was at the "I hate you" and "everything is your fault" stage that she is in now she told me that she felt that our marriage was not working because she had done things in her past that she had never told me about and that because of those things she did not feel worthy to be my wife. Now I could be reading too much into her statement (one of the drawbacks to have been a cop and having been trained as a lawyer is that you are always looking for clues to what people are thinking in what they say and do) but I have began to wonder if all the anger is just to cover for the fact that she still feels guilty for what happened and that she is trying to push me away because she doesn't feel like I could love her after that.

[NASCARDaddy]

Today has been a pretty rough day. While I have accepted that my marriage is over and I have accepted moving on without my wife I still struggle with feeling alone. Most of the people that I know have never been through something like this and so while they can tell me how sorry they feel and how much sympathy that they have for me they can't really help me because they don't know what it's like. So even when I am with people I feel alone because it is hard to find people who understand just what it is that I am going through.

[NASCARDaddy]

It is also hard because even though I accept that my current relationship with my wife is over, I still hope for a new healthy relationship with her. I don't know how that would be possible right now but it is still something that I hope and pray for.

[DaddyLongShanks]

It is also hard because even though I accept that my current relationship with my wife is over, I still hope for a new healthy relationship with her. I don't know how that would be possible right now but it is still something that I hope and pray for.

NASCARDaddy,

Look forward to a great relationship with YOURSELF. Once you have forged a great relationship with yourself, you can let in those who want to positivly share in life with you. The woman in your life may or may not be W. You might find you don't even want that anymore.

[NASCARDaddy]

Well I guess that you should never ask how much worse things can get, because you will find out. It turns out that my wife went ahead and filed the papers for the 90 day waiver and either forged my signature or had someone else forge my signature on the papers. Plus my financial aide was declined for school so I need to file an appeal to get the money to pay for school.

[MrBond]

So what are your options? Obviously the forgery or possible forgery is a criminal offense.

[NASCARDaddy]

I don't know what my options are at this point. I am waiting for my attorney to call me back. My gut instinct is to file a statement with the court stating that I did not sign the documents and let the court decide what to do from there. What troubles me is not so much the fact that she forged the documents but that she is so angry that she would go to this extreme. Things are definitely over at this point.