Should I initiate R talk?

[MrBond]

"she does ask a lot of Qs about my growth"

Like what? If she asks you, you just tell her this ... "Going through all this has made me realize that there were things I didn't like about myself. So I decided to fix them to be a better father and a better man."

"and the work I've been putting in. How do you answer a direct question without lying?"

Why would you lie? Are your changes just superficial or for life? She has to understand that your changes are for you and for life. Or else she's going to be afraid to go back to the same old crappy situation she believes things to b.

[Denver_2010]

Ok MrBond but are you saying I should just ignore her questions? Or lie about where I've been(and with whom?). The thing is we are separated but so far, we have been communicating. As i said earlier, she does ask a lot of Qs about my growth and the work I've been putting in. How do you answer a direct question without lying? I mean if a neighbor asks a question, I'll either answer it honestly, be vague or simply tell them to mind their own business. I won't just walk away and ignore it.

With regards to the OM thing being OK, you are right. It isn't. I guess I was trying to validate instead of judge and this came out. When i saw her turn away (perhaps in shame or in sadness) I just had to say something and this came out (mental note: count to 10 before saying anything to W on tricky issues). I'm still working on detaching. That's part of why i came in NC for a few days.

So after a week apart with NC, I should just get there and say:"Hi there! Hope everything went well. How's D8 doing? Anything I should know? Ok Bye"

You are getting it. Bond is dead on correct here. IMO, if she asks you about personal growth, just respond vaguely... "I'm learning a lot from all of this" ... and leave it at that... for now anyway.

Denver

[Arsene]

Thanks Lilly,

I guess you are right. I've already figured out three ways I can go. I guess it's just up to me now.
The thing is, they say to go with what works and so far, the friendly approach seems to work. All I need to do is make sure that I don't put any pressure on her and that I do none of the pursuing behaviour.
I'm not sure what she'll make of my week-long NC or how she's been taking it so I'm going to look for some signs, positive or negative to figure out how to proceed next.
Friendly on arrival worked. How did NC work? It did for me )and it was meant for that). It allowed me to figure a few thing out and to (hopefully) manage to detach a bit more than i was.
I was hoping for a few more comments to get different perspectives before going back but I think I'll stick for what works for now and adjust if need be.
I'm off in a few hours so I guess time will tell.

Thx again Lilly. Hope tomorrow goes well for you.

[Arsene]

You are getting it. Bond is dead on correct here. IMO, if she asks you about personal growth, just respond vaguely... "I'm learning a lot from all of this" ... and leave it at that... for now anyway.
Denver

MrBond and Denver,

Thanks for the words. The changes are for me and I'm convinced of that, Mrbond. I guess I'm just torn between doing what I have always done with her, which is to be open when she starts a conversation, or to be vague and evade her questions.

With regards to "leaving it at that", my guess is she would show great interest and say:"Really so what exactly have you learned?"

If she asks you, you just tell her this ... "Going through all this has made me realize that there were things I didn't like about myself. So I decided to fix them to be a better father and a better man."

To this she's likely to say:"Really? what have you discovered? What are you doing to change them?" When she asks like that, my answer can hardly be taken as pursuing, right?
I mean, if she initiates this talk (which she has in the past in our FB correspondence) Is it ok to come clean and give her the details she asks for about what I'm doing to improve myself?

Thx every one for your advice.

[adinva]

Hi Arsene - don't let insecurity about whether you're doing the tactics of DB right cause you to lose who you really are. Hopefully you're not a liar, so don't start now. If you need to role play in your head how you're going to handle a direct question, do it. Practice things like, "I have plans with friends, gotta go." Or tell her where you're going, but keep your answers short and vague.

If she's very interested and asking questions about what you're doing to improve yourself, I think that's a positive sign. Just don't expect her to believe your changes aren't manipulative tactics to get her back, or that they'll stick. Don't expect any kind of positive result from what you TELL her. But you can answer her questions. I like to think of it like how you answer a little kid's questions about sex, you answer exactly what they asked, and don't add more detail than they asked for.

My H and I had a conversation this past winter about MC where he said he hadn't seen any point in it and it was a low priority. I shared the value I had seen in it and what I was working on as a result. For example I had learned things about myself I didn't like - that I imposed my viewpoint on others without respecting their own viewpoint, that I didn't communicate as clearly as I thought I did, and that working with the counselor was helping me learn how to improve in these areas. Since H hadn't specifically asked me, it wasn't so great that I offered this info, but these are the kind of changes I'm hoping over time he sees are consistently different in me.

So in my opinion, I'd say if she's asking, it's ok to answer her questions honestly.

Best,

[Arsene]

Hello Adinva

I see what you mean about talking to her a bit like you talk to a child. I can answer her questions directly but just keep it at that. I just don't feel right about becoming aloof or unresponsive to her questions. In my view, questions show an interest and I'd like to show her that I'm open to discussion. That this aspect of our old relationship is still there no matter what (and even improved), and that if someday, she decides to open up that she knows she can still trust me to listen.
Obviously, I try very hard not to be too hopeful about all of this and to take it for what it's worth. Words.
And if some of this backfires on me, then I'll step back and stop doing it, right?

Thx Again.

[MrBond]

""Really? what have you discovered? What are you doing to change them?" When she asks like that, my answer can hardly be taken as pursuing, right?"

Stop over-analyzing everything. Look, you're never going to be able to get an answer for everything she's going to or not going to ask. Just be yourself and be genuine.

[Arsene]

Yeah, MrBond. I feel like I'm over-analysing everything as well. In the end, like you said, I just got to be myself and if this isn't good enough then, as long as it's good enough for me it'll be ok. I guess I'm just afraid to make some major no-nos which might aggravate the situation further but bottom line, she's gone so how much worse can it get? That's what I have to accept. Once i do, it should be uphill from then on(with a few bumps I'm sure).

Thanks all. I'm off now so wish me luck.

Cheers!

[Arsene]

Well, here is an update on my sitch. I got back to the house after she'd dropped D8 to school. She was back in bed and got up to greet me. She smiled as I arrived and it was overall a good feeling all around.
We had some chitchat about D8 and how she managed in her first week at the new school and how she'd been at home with W. Then, as expected, the talk turned to me and since it was friendly, i did what worked in the past and was honest with her. I don't think it was wrong but i have to admit that I probably said too much. Nonetheless, she was very receptive and agreed with lots of what I had to say and was very encouraging, but she never offered anything about herself (which i didn't expect). We then went around town together to do some errands and had an overall great day, the 3 of us. It was almost like the way we'd been. When she left, to go to work, she gave me a nice hug which i returned and that was it. Or was it?
I'm actually having 2nd thoughts about the day. I got to get my head on straight and I'll get back to you.

[roughenough]

Hi Arsene-

You are getting some excellent advice!!!! I like the comment below by adinva.

“don't let insecurity about whether you're doing the tactics of DB right cause you to lose who you really are. Hopefully you're not a liar, so don't start now. If you need to role play in your head how you're going to handle a direct question, do it. Practice things like, "I have plans with friends, gotta go." Or tell her where you're going, but keep your answers short and vague.”


I do that all the time. I just had a dreaded “financial talk” over the phone with W. Just prior to the call I mentally rehearsed my “gameplan” for the call. My mental rehearsal went something like this.

Open the call with some brief chit chat about the kids, remain calm, make sure to have a caring yet confident phone demeanor, do a good job listening and validating, stick to business and don’t argue or be confrontational. Yet I need to be prepared to respond to any curve balls that might be thrown my way. Oh yeah, don’t forget to end the call first.

Talk about brain overload!!!! I see why it’s important to rehearse these things. THAT’S A LOT OF CRAP TO REMEMBER!