I managed to fully accept and allow that hug, zig... {{{{{zig}}}}} back at you.
Many MLCers don't know what is going on with them or may deny they are MLC. Some WAS may use MLC as an excuse or reason for their behaviours. "It's not you, it's me. Maybe I'm having a MLC."
This though:
"spoke to my dad and got the name of a good acctant - here it is. when you call ask him his rates and don't forget to tell him that you and i are friends and that you know my dad"
Speaks pretty clear of his... "confusion"... My W hasn't really said much like that. What she DOES do is forget things. She recently wrote me an email about the kid schedule. The next morning (like 8 hours later) she writes another email and says, "I don't remember what I wrote in my last email."
errm... maybe she could simply look in her sent items to refresh her memory?
Our journeys are about us. Our enjoyment... our happiness... is contingent on US... and how we react... which is based on our fears...
We ACT on desire... We REACT on fear...
So may your future have more actions... and less reactions...
GRIN - thanks for accepting the hug ! and thanks so much for the one you gave me. i remember the last one you gave me - i was teetering bad, this time i'm good !
KD i am aware that both h and I could be using MLC as an excuse!!
it still doesn't deter from the fact that he's doing what he's doing, no matter how he or i explain it. it's a recent trend - him telling my friends about this mlc - as if in - please don't think bad of me, i'm having a crisis...
i have seen his confusion - all along - DEEP confusion even when he is in the throes of spewing. and others around us have seen the same.
this man has not walked away - he intended to, he has tried desperately to, but he is not letting go. if anyone is letting go, it's me. and not so much as letting go as turning in another direction.
he said to me at one point - "zig, i'm really in love with you and i know that but i am going to fight as hard as i can to deny those feelings and MAKE them go away", then a few minutes later "i feel too vulnerable with you, i can't bear it"
all that in between telling me for 2 hours all the reasons why we can't be together.
the above is what i heard also....
Our journeys are about us. Our enjoyment... our happiness... is contingent on US... and how we react... which is based on our fears...
We ACT on desire... We REACT on fear...
So may your future have more actions... and less reactions...
thank you for your blessing KD - i am, with all the help i am getting here, learning to get to that place.
and GRIN - are you telling me I "reacted" to starsky?????
about your wife - my h does the same - what's the point of pointing out their difficulties? it only adds stress. i don't want to be associated with the additional stress that h would feel if i pointed those things out, so i have always chosen to take the other way where i just gently reply again, or give him the info again. it makes my life easier, and i think his also. as it's been said before - it's not our job to point out where they are at and how they are not doing so well.
hey - i'm going to have to name one of my turtles KD - you realize that, don't you?
it's a huggy day so here we go again
((((( KD ))))))
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
Zig, Just wanted to say, like others, that your thoughtful, open and insightful account of your position in relation to this issue is so helpful.
I am receiving a lot of encouragement on my thread to wake up to the fact that my H is gone (he is living with OW now) and pretty much have nothing to do with him.
Like you, for me, going NC seems to make things worse.
I'm now acting on my gut and practising my new-found (and wobbly) philosophy of unconditional love and kindness garnished with a healthy dash of 'look at (sexy, capable, non-needy) me'. I still get the occasional trigger that throws me right back to anger and mind-reading, but overall, like you, I feel like I'm in a better place.
It's been inspiring to hear your take on this conflict between the 'kick em to the curb' and 'seduce them' camps (to put it in its most simplistic terms).
The idea of trying to keep our balance on that constantly shifting ground really worked for me. That's how I'm going to think of myself for now.
Thank you so much.
If only that picnic rug was a magic carpet ... we could all fly away to another, happier, place.
I think what's clear with your H is that he is not intending to cake eat. He actually sees being with you as cheating on the OW. Even in his confusion of not wanting to be with you, yet not leaving, he is living as though he is single, in relation to the OW. That is very similar to what my W has been doing. She would not D me, yet she "does not feel M" and likes things the way they are, in regard to our R.
Did you react to Starsky? IDK. It READ like you reacted. Then again, when you said you stepped back and thought about his post, did you ground yourself and state how you really feel about yourself and life and YOUR path?
If so, then you were simply self affirming that you are living a genuine life that you wish to lead. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is your choice.
One thing is for certain. Starsky did R and by all his accounts, their M is much better than it's ever been. He DID confront his W and it appears that after much thought, she realized her A was much less important than being with him.
Why? IDK. It could have been because he manned up. It could have been because she finally "saw the light". It could be because she felt her hold on the OM was slipping, so she decided to give Starsky another chance. Only she knows why she decided to work on the M.
Zig, you and I one of "those" that are cut from a different cloth. I believe you, like me, have for the most part lived our lives from the perspective of "live and let live". It's just who we are.
Personally, I will not "convince" someone to like me. I will not "compete" for someone's affection. Unless I feel that someone genuinely wants to be my friend, hang out with me... have raunchy, one night stands with me... then hey... awesome...
What I really find interesting is that by the end of my M, I had become so much a person that I did not want to be. And I am somewhat shocked at my reaction to the loss of my W and the nuclear family.
Believe me, I think it really stinks that my kids will grow up without married parents. I believe they have been and will continue to be in some ways, negatively impacted by that.
And...
If my W does not want to be with me... so be it... *shrug*
And...
I WILL be and AM the best ME that I can be. I... like... me... I have a feeling that someone will like me one day, in "that" way, too...
Keep being who you are, zig. And if what you are doing is working for you... that's freakin' awesome...!
but i'm beginning to see feel and live that picnic blanket as my magic carpet...
I'm now acting on my gut and practising my new-found (and wobbly) philosophy of unconditional love and kindness garnished with a healthy dash of 'look at (sexy, capable, non-needy) me'. I still get the occasional trigger that throws me right back to anger and mind-reading, but overall, like you, I feel like I'm in a better place.
NLW - that's a great way to put it - especially the wobbly part - oh do i feel wobbly , once in a while
It's been inspiring to hear your take on this conflict between the 'kick em to the curb' and 'seduce them' camps (to put it in its most simplistic terms).
now there's some tact i need to learn - my sag mouth blasted off as usual - still have to learn that. lessons from you? i'll take them willingly:)
even though i haven't posted i've been keeping up on your sitch everyday NLW - you are getting great solid advice and you are taking it. 25 and busto have your back and the best part is that you are getting to a better place each and everyday. as a fellow picnicker - i am glad to see you go with it.
(((( )))) zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
I think what's clear with your H is that he is not intending to cake eat. He actually sees being with you as cheating on the OW. Even in his confusion of not wanting to be with you, yet not leaving, he is living as though he is single, in relation to the OW. That is very similar to what my W has been doing. She would not D me, yet she "does not feel M" and likes things the way they are, in regard to our R.
ah KD , yes - he is NOT cake-eating at all. and i really have come to respect him for that. and yes he does see being with me as cheating on OW. how frustration his that!!! so you say your wife is similar. and the question that comes to mind -does she show how tortured she is? does she admit to being agonized? my h has said all along that he likes things as they are - but lately - no - he is not liking things as they are turning out to be.
Did you react to Starsky? IDK. It READ like you reacted. Then again, when you said you stepped back and thought about his post, did you ground yourself and state how you really feel about yourself and life and YOUR path?
Yes - i felt I did. It was many hours before I responded - though i realize that time is not the qualifying factor in whether i did that wholly or not.
If so, then you were simply self affirming that you are living a genuine life that you wish to lead. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is your choice.
One thing is for certain. Starsky did R and by all his accounts, their M is much better than it's ever been. He DID confront his W and it appears that after much thought, she realized her A was much less important than being with him.
Why? IDK. It could have been because he manned up. It could have been because she finally "saw the light". It could be because she felt her hold on the OM was slipping, so she decided to give Starsky another chance. Only she knows why she decided to work on the M.
I also read your post 3 minutes after you wrote it and have been mulling over what you said since then.
I also saw Starsky's reply. and then i started to think. Did i just do what i always do? defend myself, or did i truly wait and see where I was at. you got me on a vulnerable point here, pointing out to me that starsky successfully reconciled with his wife - implying that maybe his approach is worth listening to.
on the other hand - i did ask for further dialog with him, but he has chosen clearly not to continue the discussion. his reply made me feel that in saying what i felt, in the way i said it, i stepped over the line and it was not okay for him. so here i am left with a similar response as my h's - when i try to "make myself heard" - and what that seems to lead to. is what i am still doing wrong here? what is there, in the way i respond that hurts and offends others. was it because i clearly said what i didn't like?
I want this to be a truly open discussion - that is the only way to learn. so if you or anyone else is seeing something, that i am not seeing - including you starsky , if you are reading this - i am open to all you have to say.
Zig, you and I one of "those" that are cut from a different cloth. I believe you, like me, have for the most part lived our lives from the perspective of "live and let live". It's just who we are.
oh you picked up on that, did ya? (grin)
Personally, I will not "convince" someone to like me. I will not "compete" for someone's affection. Unless I feel that someone genuinely wants to be my friend, hang out with me... have raunchy, one night stands with me... then hey... awesome...
I do feel the same way
What I really find interesting is that by the end of my M, I had become so much a person that I did not want to be. And I am somewhat shocked at my reaction to the loss of my W and the nuclear family.
elaborate? as in that you don't care any longer or something else?
Believe me, I think it really stinks that my kids will grow up without married parents. I believe they have been and will continue to be in some ways, negatively impacted by that.
i feel the same also - but couple with the above..
And...
If my W does not want to be with me... so be it... *shrug*
I don't know if i'm totally at the "shrug" stage yet - but i'm a heck of a lot closer than i ever was
And...
I WILL be and AM the best ME that I can be. I... like... me... I have a feeling that someone will like me one day, in "that" way, too...
hey you know - i feel like that too!! Keep being who you are, zig. And if what you are doing is working for you... that's freakin' awesome...!
the only ting i know that is working for me is that i've never felt this good about myself - EVER - and in the big pic, KD - that trumps h wanting to work it out!!
you're a good friend KD - thanks...
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
I apologize - for offending you. let it never be said that zig doesn't own her stuff.
I do still believe the things i wrote , but i don't think i was able to put them in a way that didn't cause you offense, and for that I am deeply sorry.
you came here to help - and instead of asking and listening - i went off on my spiel.
I asked a lot of questions - not because i was being defiant, but because i really want to know. I am sorry they came across that way. i was sincerely hoping you would answer them - they were not to make any sort of point.
I am fine if you don't want to answer this post, I wrote it more from a place of wanting to be honest more than anything else
I will hope that you could find it in yourself to continue the conversation - not just for me but for the others also who are trying to find firm ground in this area
sincerely zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
{{{{{zig}}}}} back at you. 
