DB Bootcamp - NLW with cat04

[NLW]

Hi Seeking,

I really appreciate how you've jumped in to help.
Thank you so much for your precious time and the sage advice and encouragement you're providing.

If there was one thing I could stress to the LBS of a MLCer is that MLC is a very long drawn out journey. It takes more patience, compassion, and understanding than you'd ever believe you had in you. MLC is often measured in years instead of months. There are also those MLCers that don't ever emerge from the tunnel. However, I have been told and read that most do eventually come out the other side.

I keep telling myself this, but it does help to hear it. I feel I've been on H's MLC journey now for about 4 years (the crazy spending, the OW on and off again), even though it is only around a year since BD. I guess I keep hearing a little voice telling me over and again "It's surely nearly over by now?" every time I keep re-setting my clock.


If your H feels bad about himself because you look like you're enjoying life, well that gives him something to think about with the choices he made. You have planted seeds for him.

Yes, I can see your point here. There really is no alternative for how to live my life/be in the world. Showing my sadness and hurt would turn everyone away.

MLCer's very seldom take any of the blame.

Thanks for reminding me of this too. It helps me a lot to hear from others who have gone through the same thing.

They think that they will find their happiness externally and that's why they run. Running keeps them from having to examine their internal issues. They can't or won't face the pain of wounds that run deep and were created long before you ever met them. That's where the saying comes from: You didn't break your MLCer and you can't fix them.

That's why the MLC journey lasts so long, because unless and until they figure out that their unhappiness is coming from within, they keep looking outside themselves and only being able to put band aids over those wounds.

If only there was some way to make them see the obvious! Ha, this is the sort of thinking that brings me down every time. Time and patience, time and patience.....

I have only commented on a few of your points above, but please know that I am reading and re-reading your words (as I am those of Cat) and they are giving me strength and direction in going on.

Again, thank you so much for dropping by and please feel free any time at all. I am so pleased to hear from you and very grateful to have Cat's guidance as well.
What a wonderful place this is!
Best, NLW.

[NLW]

I figure something I really need help with is my 'auto' response.

I am just rubbish at stopping my unthinking knee-jerk reactions to things my H says. Even after all this time..

Don't know if it's even possible to make any suggestions - other than: YOU JUST HAVE TO STOP & THINK BEFORE YOU BLURT.

Case in point.

H scheduled a business trip away on the day D16 was to have surgery. He forgot.
It was only wisdom teeth, but did involve general anaesthetic and admission to hospital.

She had the procedure done at 2pm and was home by 6pm.
H didn't ring me to ask about D16 until 8.30pm. I'd texted "D16 is out of surgery and OK" at 3pm, but got no response.

Anyway, when he rings, H says almost first thing: "Did she get the flowers?"

Now I am amped because i've recently found out that H is spending money like a mad-man on things like restaurants and booze, when the kids and i are scrounging to pay bills and buy food. He is maxed out on all credit cards and deeply in debt to me, his parents, my parents, etc.

SO, I say, without thinking, "What flowers - where did you send them?"
And there is a tone in my voice that indicates without doubt that I think he is crazy for sending flowers to someone who is in day surgery for 4 hrs (would be like sending flowers to the dental surgery).
He just says, lamely "They told me they'd delivered them to the hospital".

I pretty much felt sick at the thought of $70 or so going off into the ether, and ended the conversation.

My point is, I really judged him again. And this is one of his big points.

I just can't seem to stop myself blurting out when I hear something that i think is stupid (and, believe me, there's a lot that I think is stupid).

Any thoughts?

Maybe I should just remember to count to 5, literally, before I reply to anything he says??? I worry a bit that this might not even guarantee that i wouldn't 'judge' even then.

Maybe I am just a constant judger. Not sure I know how to disagree without judging. Maybe I just need to shut up more often.

Blah.

[Jannie]

Our situations are very similar it's uncanny. My H does not want contact though or at least very little. Plus he doesn't make plans with our kids. When I last spoke to him, no matter what was said, everything turned back to him. I just let him talk.

[cat04]

NLW,

I have been thinking about this a bit.

I too feel like a constant "judger" sometimes.

I think it's ok to have whatever thoughts you have, but I also think you need to examine where those thoughts come from before you react or speak.

Sometimes I will think someone has done something really stupid, and when I look at why I think it's stupid, most often it is simply because it is different from what I would have done or said...

That doesn't really make it stupid and I need to be very careful in my reactions to not make someone feel that is what I feel.

Thought stopping, the 48 hour rule (wait 48 hours before you respond and see how you feel then), snapping a rubberband on your wrist as a distraction...

Google thought stopping for different techniques. Some people visualize a stop sign...

Whatever works for you to help you keep your mouth shut, and gives YOU the time that you need to decide what it really is that you want to convey to someone else if anything at all...

How are you doing otherwise?

[cat04]

NLW,

How are you today?

Are you making any progress on your goals?

[NLW]

Hi Cat,
I'm OK thanks. Hope you are well and enjoying life!

I'm trying to focus on being more patient and not 're-acting' to every little thing.

Sometimes i'm better at it than others. I still have a tendency to react without thinking. I need to realise that there are other points of view and that every opinion does not have to be argued for its pros and cons.

Just another moment to practise acceptance, I suppose.

Another goal is to try to reduce the amount of time i spend thinking about my sitch. So exhausting and taking a toll on my working life.

Another minor thing is to try not to have an anxiety 'attack' every time i see that H is phoning me.
I've tried to let his calls go to voice mail, but he will not leave messages. And if i don't answer his calls, he retaliates like clockwork - so the next time I need to contact him (and it is only when there is a real need that I do this), he pays me back by not answering (and I'm not imagining it, he is very much like this).

Standing for one's M and DB-ing is so tiring. I sometimes think I'd just be better off encouraging him to disappear from our lives so we could just forget about him.

Obviously, I'm a little down tonight.

[cat04]

NLW,

I have to head out for work so I need to make this brief.

I understand those anxiety attacks. I still have them sometimes when I hear from X. It's like "what do you want now?"

Try to breathe through them and know that the interaction doesn't have to be bad.

I am sorry that he feels that you should be at his beck and call when he phones you.

I have learned that if it's life or death, he will leave a message or text or something...

It really is ok to live your life and not be available to him every second of the day. And the world isn't going to end if you choose not to answer him right away. I promise.

What are you doing to work on not "reacting"?

Have you tried doing anything to up your self care like I suggested?

You have to find the value in yourself sweetie. It isn't tied into whether he comes back or not.

Do more of what actually works for you instead of worrying about what is working for him.

I will elaborate more later (yes, I've been keeping up with your other thread).

In the meantime, try to have a good evening. Put the kids to bed, take a bubble bath with candles and some music and focus on relaxing.

Dbing and standing are exhausting. Which is part of why we have to care for ourselves and have patience with ourselves during this process.

It really does do a world of good.

[cat04]

NLW,

I wanted to pull some stuff back up to your bootcamp thread.

It sparked some very interesting debate and I think that is wonderful but I also believe that in some ways that has taken the focus off of what you are trying to work on.

Sometimes it just hits me how completely insane this limbo really is.

Is this how it’s supposed to be if one accepts one’s new reality, ignores the OW as a mere symptom, and gets on with acting ‘as if' and being the best you that you can be?

It feels so WRONG at times. And, in this sense, I get what Starsky is saying over on Zig’s thread (I think). I want to scream at my H – How dare you carry on an A and then come in here as if everything is OK and normal!!!!

This is what actually brought on the conversation re: boundaries and what followed.

I will reserve my thoughts about that here, and I will simply respond to this.

It’s ok to feel these feelings.

The limbo is weird, there is no doubt about that. It makes you wonder if anything you are doing is right or wrong or if you have lost your mind as well.

All of that is simply normal and a part of the process.

He is going to continue to be in my life as my children's father, and I want more than a non-speaking relationship with him in future.

You stated this and this may be the most minimal thing you can hope for but it is definitely a desirable goal.

Getting back to you other goals will help you to hopefully achieve this, if nothing else.

I need to think about him as a learning how to walk again. I need to have patience and remember that it will take a long time to re-build his trust and overcome his hurt.

Just as it will take time to overcome your own hurt and develop your own trust again.

Trust is the easiest thing to lose in a relationship and the hardest thing to regain.

More importantly, I want to see if I can overcome my previous knee-jerk reactions to the brutal reality of my situation.
I don't want to lash out in anger and I've got to realise I can't control another human being.
I've also got to be sure that my happiness depends on me and not on what someone else does to me or with me.
Unless I can work these things out there's not much hope for me in a future relationship.
And what better testing ground than in the crucible of this personal drama?

You stated this more than once on this thread and on your others.

What have you been doing to get to this point?

How is the thought stopping coming?

How is the self care coming?

Has anything happened that you have been able to not have a “knee-jerk” reaction to?

Not necessarily in your sitch but in your life?

Something that happens as we begin to make changes, is that those changes radiate into our entire lives and all of our relationships.

We begin to see that our overall behavior and thought process changes and the way we act with all people changes.

I want to keep you on track here so that in the future you are able to make choices regarding your sitch and more importantly your life that feel right to you.

Decisions that you don’t have to ask yourself a million what if’s about.

So, let’s get back to the goals.

How are they coming?

[NLW]

Hey Cat,
Sorry to take so long to reply - I lost a long post to the ether recently so have had to re-do.

The limbo is weird, there is no doubt about that. It makes you wonder if anything you are doing is right or wrong or if you have lost your mind as well.

All of that is simply normal and a part of the process.

Good to hear this view. It soothes my frayed nerves.

How is the thought stopping coming?

I'm getting better at this with continued practice.

How is the self care coming?

OK, but I'm so busy trying to run the house, the kids, care for my parents, and do my job.

Has anything happened that you have been able to not have a “knee-jerk” reaction to?

Yep. H announced that he was off to the UK for a 'business' trip. I silently flipped out thinking of what this would mean in terms of $$$, but to him, I just said "Wow, That's exciting."

A few days later he announced he was also going to Istambul. This was getting way freaky (there is absolutely no reason for him to go there - part from the fact that I'd been there before i met him and had always said how great it was and how we should go some day).
Again, I just responded enthusiastically. No interrogation, no taking the bait.
There's no point, I realise now. I can't control what he does; his life is his life.

Not necessarily in your sitch but in your life?

I'm much more compassionate to people in RL now. In my job, for instance, I have to deal with a lot of requests for extensions, special considerations, applications to re-sit failed exams and assignments.
I pretty much always treated these applications with a good dose of cynicism. Polite, but suspicious of those who couldn't just power through and do the business. I would never have asked for special consideration when I was a student.
Now, I know how life can bring you to your knees and make it pretty much impossible to concentrate and get things done to a timeframe. I listen and I empathise. I understand. I'm a better person.

I want to keep you on track here so that in the future you are able to make choices regarding your sitch and more importantly your life that feel right to you.

Great, thanks - just what I need at the moment (getting a bit lost in the cross-fire of the debate on my thread).


So, let’s get back to the goals.

How are they coming?

Ok, my biggest one is to get the constant focus off my H and onto me. This will be easier when he's away for 3 weeks soon.

Goal of moving on will be tested a bit today. H's family is holding a birthday lunch for his aunt and H told me i should go and take the kids. He will not attend.

At first i thought this was a terrible bind - seems like I am insisting on going and making it hard for H to attend his own family gathering. But then I just thought that I'd do what I wanted to do without worrying about him. So when MIL asked if I was coming, I said yes.
It'll be awkward because it's the first time I've seen BIL's family since BD 12 months ago.
But hey ho, I have to move on and live my life without second-guessing H's position.


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