Bringing this here for continuity and so that your other thread can be officially closed (you know, you can click notify on the old thread and put "please lock" in the message).
So let's do some "hindsight" work:
Originally Posted By: TSquared2
W has always needed time to digest and process new info or changes, so I really shouldn't be surprised.
Possible introvert? I used to be an introvert, but I also find that over my life, I've moved from one to the other. Right now, I'm quite extrovert... not afraid to "put my stuff out there".
If you believe she needs time to process, allow her that time... and try not to overwhelm her with more, until she can handle it (ie. has processed what's already in her head).
It might be an artefact of her MLC or it may be who she was or who she will come out as, on the other side... file that for later reference...
Originally Posted By: TSquared2
Like your W, she is a "seat of pants" kinda person, which used to in the early days, and, still can, balance us out (a lot of that will be due to my changes, for the past few years it has been a contributor to my frustration...I choose to see it differently now, and being in late 40's and male...I don't need the stress of expecting someone else to necessarily see things the same way anymore...I have embraced my "type B" side...lol).
I am an A type... pretty much always have, although again... I did move to the more mundane, analytical B type for a while... yeah... no fun... I'll pass... lol
Anyhow, when my W and I met, it was all about the fun... And what I didn't do at the time (the hindsight work) was that I didn't step in and provide the security and stability that she needed... that she craved... being that "rock"... because while I'd be that for a while, I'd go back to my A type adventures... I was confident that things were stable, but didn't realize she felt out of control...
And then... she TOOK control... and I didn't like it, because I don't do shackles and chains... well, not outside the bedroom... lol... no, jk... TMI...
Originally Posted By: TSquared2
If she is in MLC, and I think so, I think she MAY be in the later stages...based on behavior (spewing at me/because of me has pretty much stopped, and most of the blaming, except where warranted) and what she has shared so far (clarity in certain issues, etc).
Yes... anger is an early phase, although it is one of those things, like the depression, that is seen throughout... but you are correct that the anger is probably more rational, logical, and warranted now... you f'd up... she'll mention it and you will KNOW it true...
And yes, there is apparently more clarity (well of course, it stands to reason) as they near and enter the liminal phase and move towards the end... now is the time that replay CAN occur... you may need to nudge... but you need to be careful they don't run back and hide in replay... but that they apparently DO go back and re-visit the prior stages as they integrate what they have learned through the process and make the parts they want to keep as their own and close the doors for good...
huge hat tip to HB and all who have gone before to help make sense of this...
Originally Posted By: TSquared2
I did what I would have done if she had just disappeared or died, but still found myself surprised at the lack of reaction...meh, oh well, not my problem...I feel good for me and our kids.
"Blade of grass"..."feral cats"...rofl...that cracks me up! The metaphors and humor that the people here create is truly priceless...and mind saving!
T^2
Metaphors I think work really well for MLC because in a way, the entire MLC is one big metaphor of the MLCer's past life and what ever meanings they may take that will put them on the path that they are choosing for the next stage of their life...
Really, her non-reaction is a good thing... and in some ways, I think that might be an artefact of liminal (or at least depression) as well... she's processing first, rather than reacting... whereas before, she'd react and/or bolt because they met someone who had the same name as you...
Still... that will happen more and more... but the reacting will still happen... just hopefully less and less...
-I am a mix of types A/B...type A for work, house projects, etc, but approached in a type B way... So to let go of control, I had to shift over more type B way...what I know I can control, then type A can play ...
-I was the "rock" throughout or R and M...W even described me to IC as "a good man" and "a rock" in between the first round of MLC and this one and her replay dive...I always wonder if I hadn't have been so freaked out when she started replay (I didn't know anything about MLC at the time)again almost exactly 1 year from the end of the first EA...that if I knew about MLC that I could have remained the "rock" and not slipped in previous changes that this could have been avoided or at least short-circuited...but she saw the rock crumble, I forgot about her "proving desirability" issue and replay escalated to BD because I showed her such a non-confident man.
But we are where we are, God/Universe/whomever had some more lessons to teach me, since they did not stick the first time.
-She wasn't allowed to express anger growing up, and so repressed it. The things she was angry at all these years that I was clueless about...man...
Well she has been expressing it for about a year now...lol...and during one of our recent converations where she talked about this, I told her that I am okay if she gets mad at me, that I am not her dad. I think I have shown it during BD, spewing, etc...so hopefully I am PROVING it to HER, that I am safe to be angry at, which is what matters.
Quote:
Really, her non-reaction is a good thing... and in some ways, I think that might be an artefact of liminal (or at least depression) as well... she's processing first, rather than reacting... whereas before, she'd react and/or bolt because they met someone who had the same name as you...
Thank you for this insight...I hadn't thought of it that way. On the "funny" side, one of her and I think latest cyber or real OMs name is the french version of one of mine (I know this only because she leaves things laying around on the kitchen table and the alt... ). Funny because if she left I would probably avoid dating anyone with any of her names, or at least be overly cautious .
Anyway, thank you for your well thought reply, KD, I like to read yours posts wherever they occur.
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
A quick question regarding after you opened the cage door for your H...when he didn't leave right away, what was going through your head at say...one week...? "hmm, maybe he isn't going to go"?
And when he did, was it a surprise at all?
Thanks!!! T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
T, Keep in mind, I took this door opening tactic on before I joined the board, so I wasn't aware of dbing. Once I had stated that I thought he should go at that time and not after Christmas, he sat on the sofa and cried like a baby. I listened to him telling me that he was confused, etc. I then offered to help him pack his belongings to go. He said he wasn't leaving that night. So for a couple of weeks, we continued on as if nothing was wrong and then one evening, he made a comment to me over dinner that he couldn't understand why I wasn't upset w/everything. I told him that I wasn't the one that was threatening to leave and that I was quite content w/my life in both my professional field and at home. He never said a word. That weekend, he was out looking for a place to rent. He found excuses for every place, either they didn't have Anderson windows, the intercom system in one home didn't work, the paint wasn't the right color, etc. (I actually thought about finding him a place myself, just to get him out on his own.) While he was out looking for a place, I took down all of the Christmas decorations and put them away. That hit him the hardest when he returned home for apt./house hunting. He then commented that Derek, my nephew, would miss them. I told him that he is only 2 yrs old and wouldn't be coming here to visit during that period since his parents were going away on a vacation. He never said a word. The guilt ate him up and I knew it wouldn't be long and he would flee the cage.
The sunday just prior to his leaving, he kissed me goodbye when he left for work that morning and that was the last time he was somewhat normal. He never mentioned to me that day that he was planning to flee the next day, so I had no idea that December 13th was the deadline and he still didn't have a place to go to. He stayed in a motel that first night and then "bummed" sleeping space at his co-workers' homes until he found a place in late January.
T, bottom line, I got sick and tired of his veiled threats to leave whenever something didn't go his way or he was unhappy w/anything I said or did. I wasn't the least bit surprised by him leaving, but more so in how he did it. I walked on egg shells for 7 months and once he left, there was peace and calm and in my home. I have never regretted opening the cage door helping him fly.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I have been laying low...lots of action and stress at work, so not much left in me by end of day. Missing the comfort of a smile and hug when I come home after days like the last couple of weeks. Interesting how my ideas regarding intimacy have changed...hugs and touches mean sooo much more than they used to...I will never minimize them again.
W has been going between flipping out trying to control small things (because she has difficulty controlling herself???) and withdrawal...I feel a change in energy, things are churning in her head, she is making sure SHE lets me know what is up with her after a less than ideal interaction between us. I listen, validate. Then, let it go.
It is really finally getting in my thick, stubborn skull that this is her journey, and now that I have fixed a lot of my contributions to the difficulties in the M, that it has little to do with me now (she has even said this, in a feral cat sort of way).
She has to find her peace, resolutions, within. I am hearing new vocabulary from her such as, "I am projecting...", so I know she is making the effort to answer, figure out her answers. I'd like to tell her that the answer is the question...but that would be too much, and too much "old me" that made her feel inferior somehow. I can STFU and save that for my own ponderings, no problemo.
Another thread here reminded me to stop all pursuit, as W was always the distancer. Dim is working for me, most of the time.
Lots of "as if" practice for me...
I have decided to keep wearing the ring, though it might be construed as pursuing behavior:
-I am still married. -The kids need to know that I haven't quit. The ring is symbolic of that promise I made to them. -I find it a reminder to never, ever, take anything for granted ever, ever, again. -I don't want to "advertize falsely", as I am still standing. -It feels right, for me.
So, lots of feral cat and blades of grass action here.
I can think, I can wait, I can fast.
Let God, the Universe, do their work.
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
I also realize that because I am so tired and burnt-out from work, $, this sitch, that I am very vulnerable to temptations atm...need to change something up within, for me.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
T- when u said, " I have been laying low...lots of action and stress at work, so not much left in me by end of day. Missing the comfort of a smile and hug when I come home after days like the last couple of weeks. Interesting how my ideas regarding intimacy have changed...hugs and touches mean sooo much more than they used to...I will never minimize them again."
I TOTALLY understand what you mean! This has been a crappy week at work for me too and it would be nice to come home and hug my spouse and let the worries of the day melt away.... Unfortunately neither of us get that luxury right now... And well it's no fun, and adds more stress. I just keep telling myself there is light at the end of this long horrible tunnel... Don't know what it is but God has a plan for all of us and it may not be what we want, but who knows. Hang in there T there are brighter days ahead.
). Funny because if she left I would probably avoid dating anyone with any of her names, or at least be overly cautious 