DB Bootcamp - sweetbaby red with AJM

[sgctxok]

I've been separated for just over a year now. My H had to deal with his son moving away because his stepdad joined the army, had his work contract end, and limited contact with me while I was in India for 5 weeks.

According to the MC that we saw, he was so upset at losing me, that he decided it would be easier to let me go on his own terms than ever have to deal with the possibility in the future. In the last year we've also had depression and a possible MLC to deal with.

I definitely need help setting short term goals and being held responsible for DBing the proper way. I have a tendency to think that my M is different and I can do things my own way. I need to stay on track and follow the program.
_________________________
M-34 H-33
M-4.5 T-6.5
4/11 H is confused
5/11 ILYBNILWY
6/11 OW discovered
7/11 I move out, OW is gone
5/12 2nd OW, now gone, H wants D to explore his options
Trying to let go and let God--not easy!

[sgctxok]

that quote was from sweetbabyred


We need a vet:

I SUGGEST someone who will help her follow the program (male or female)....and work through the steps (either in DR or KLA, but definitely goal setting)

Someone with experience with the military situation might also work.

[AJM]

Is SweetbabyRed on this thread?

Goal setting and military are my bread and butter. Happy to oblige....

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

That would be awesome AJM. I guess I get lost because I'm not sure if I should be working on 180s or moving into LRT/NC.

I don't really know if I need much help with the military sitch because that is my stepson's stepfather's job, so I don't really have much to do with that.

I've been working crazy hours this week, so I haven't posted much, but I have been reading as many posts as I can.

I'm a planner and organizer, so if I could have a some concrete goals to work on, I'd find it easier.

[AJM]

Ok. How about starting with a full description of what's going on? What you're doing?

Part of this process is to set the goals, see what's working and re-evaluate. I think that starting at the beginning and seeing how things are going, what's working, what's not, and what your goals are would help get the ideas out.

Sound good?
AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Ok, I'll start from the beginning but try to keep it as short as possible.

Last April, one day after coming home from a five week volunteer trip to India, I was told by H that he wanted more kids (he has a S10 from previous R) and that if I didn't want that, we needed to D.

I was about to start grad school, he was in between jobs, so we had no maternity coverage, and we still had a ton of projects we wanted to complete on the house, so we were in no way ready to have kids.

Not to mention that with his best friend living with us, his S didn't have his own room, so where would we put a new child?

After a few sessions of MC in Dec/Jan the MC thought that H was so scared over the possibility of losing me (because we had very limited communication while I was gone-no electricity often so no email and unable to call US for days at a time)that he never wanted to go through it again and decided to break off the M.

About a month ago, I read through our skype chats from my last week in India and I really agree with the counselor's assessment. He told me to come home immediately, because he didn't know how he'd live without me and didn't like the thoughts in his head.

He spent most of the summer going out all night with new friends. I was unable to sleep or eat for days on end.

H wanted to live separately, so it was decided that he and his friend would stay in the house while it was on the market and I would move to an apartment in July.

By this point, I'd realized that I was in my mid 30s and did want children, so I couldn't put it off forever. I told him so, thinking that maybe he wouldn't feel the need for a D, but he said he wasn't sure he could believe me.

[sweetbabyred]

continued...

H had visions that maybe we'd date each other while separated, since there were some other issues we needed to work on, but we never really did that.

His S moved to NY in August, and has visited in December and March, so we've been in contact about him since I still want to be in his life. We've also had to communicate about the house since it's still on the market, although I think it may be sold by the end of this month.

This whole time, at least until this May, he's been saying that he's confused and doesn't know what he wants, but he doesn't want to go back to the old R. I've changed, and know that we have a lot of things we could improve, so I don't want that either.

So he's been going out and acting like a single man, has had two girlfriends (both young and completely inappropriate for him according to all of his friends), but hasn't actually filed the papers.

This may, he did pay several hundred dollars to get the do it yourself forms, but hasn't started to fill them out yet.

When that happened, H told me that we needed to be divorced so we could move on, since no one really wanted to date him until he was officially divorced. (Poor H!) But after we moved on, then maybe we could get back together in the future.

I can't figure out why you'd D someone that you still think that you might want to be with in the future? Shouldn't you work hard at it until you're sure that it's not meant to be?

He stopped going to MC because the MC told him that he was saying he wanted a child, but that he didn't want to be with me because I was too responsible and wouldn't go out with him all of the time. She said that those two things couldn't happen at the same time and asked if he wanted to be married.

According to H, that meant that the MC felt that it wasn't going to work between us, even though she had stated that if two people wanted a M to work, it could, even if there had been infidelity, abuse, or any other number of problems. So I feel that it was a complete cop out.

[sweetbabyred]

continued...

H started drinking more heavily by April and I really feel that he was in another depressive episode, so I was really worried about him. By the end of May he started to go to IC, so I think he is starting to improve at least a little on that end, but he still has low self esteem and tells me that I can do better. He says that he doesn't understand why I still love him and stick around him when no one else will.

I've known him for 6.5 years and know how loving and caring he is, so how he can compare me to 20 something strippers and other new "friends" who are just using him baffles me.

His LL are words of affirmation and gifts, so while I've been trying not to do any gifts recently, I do make sure to thank him anytime he does anything nice or anything I need.

One of his complaints was that I never initiated ML, so I've done that a little, but told him that I understand it's not going to bring us back together and it's purely physical. He keeps reminding me of that, but wants me to spend the entire night at the house when I do go over.

I thought that might be a good sign, but then I read Brit's post about using H to help her get over loneliness, so maybe that's all he's doing.

Once the house is sold, I won't really have any reason to contact him, other than about my SS10. I don't often contact him now, but I do still hear from him almost every day.

I'm an introvert who works with people all day, so at night, I'd usually just want to relax even though H wanted to go out at the last minute. Now that I'm by myself, I take every opportunity to go out with friends, so that's a 180 and GAL in itself.

I know that I get jealous when he goes out with friends, most of whom are girls that I don't know, so I need to work on not letting that show. H knows that I don't mind female friends, as long as I know them and would be invited along if I wanted, but I'll have to work on that if/when we decide to work on our R.

I'm torn between trying to show him that I'll always be there for him, especially because of his depression, and going low or NC to show him what life will really be like if he chooses to divorce me.

I don't really have any concrete goals right now, so I think that's why I'm really confused and can't tell if things are improving at all.

In three weeks, Retrouvaille is in town, and I think I'd like to go, but I'm not sure how I'd bring it up to him without scaring him off by thinking that I'm trying to stop the D.

[AJM]

I can't figure out why you'd D someone that you still think that you might want to be with in the future? Shouldn't you work hard at it until you're sure that it's not meant to be?

He has some growing up to do if you ask me. He is confused even if he isn't saying it. He wants "something" but he isn't sure what it is. He's searching, no? The depression is part of it in my opinion.

H started drinking more heavily by April and I really feel that he was in another depressive episode, so I was really worried about him. By the end of May he started to go to IC, so I think he is starting to improve at least a little on that end, but he still has low self esteem and tells me that I can do better. He says that he doesn't understand why I still love him and stick around him when no one else will.

Really? You don't understand that statement? "I've treated you horribly and you're still here!?!??"

I thought that might be a good sign, but then I read Brit's post about using H to help her get over loneliness, so maybe that's all he's doing.

there are others that restored their marriages and did exactly this during the crazy phase. You are not crazy, but this may be part of it. You won't know until much later, but it is your choice to figure out what you want to do...

I don't really have any concrete goals right now, so I think that's why I'm really confused and can't tell if things are improving at all.

In three weeks, Retrouvaille is in town, and I think I'd like to go, but I'm not sure how I'd bring it up to him without scaring him off by thinking that I'm trying to stop the D.

I hear goals in your post. For example, you'd like to restore your relationship with your H. You'd like to be there with him. You'd like to have him go to R'ville with you.

What I'm not getting is what YOU want out of this.

My thought is that since you can't make sense of what he wants, or says, or does, you may need to step back and figure out what you want with or without him. Honestly. Actions and feelings aside from the recent past, what is it you want?

My other thought is that he has some issues he needs to deal with. You may not be able to help with them.

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

I can't figure out why you'd D someone that you still think that you might want to be with in the future? Shouldn't you work hard at it until you're sure that it's not meant to be?

He has some growing up to do if you ask me. He is confused even if he isn't saying it. He wants "something" but he isn't sure what it is. He's searching, no? The depression is part of it in my opinion.

He's definitely searching for that one experience or woman who can make him happy. And of course that hasn't happened, even when he has found other women he's interested in. I know that he won't be happy with anyone until he's happy with himself, but he doesn't see it that way. I'm just not fun enough or similar enough for it to work according to him.

H started drinking more heavily by April and I really feel that he was in another depressive episode, so I was really worried about him. By the end of May he started to go to IC, so I think he is starting to improve at least a little on that end, but he still has low self esteem and tells me that I can do better. He says that he doesn't understand why I still love him and stick around him when no one else will.

Really? You don't understand that statement? "I've treated you horribly and you're still here!?!??"

Okay, I do understand that. But I think a big part of that relates to his father leaving his mom for OW when he was about 10 years old and pretty much ignoring the family from then on. His dad felt it was H's job to keep in contact with him and H still has a lot of resentment over that and abandonment issues. Understandably. So if his own father won't stick around, why should anyone else?

I thought that might be a good sign, but then I read Brit's post about using H to help her get over loneliness, so maybe that's all he's doing.

there are others that restored their marriages and did exactly this during the crazy phase. You are not crazy, but this may be part of it. You won't know until much later, but it is your choice to figure out what you want to do...

I think I'll take this on a day to day basis, just like everything else. If I feel that H is just using me and is completely done, I'll stop. Right now it could be helping him see some of my changes, so I'll stick with it.

I don't really have any concrete goals right now, so I think that's why I'm really confused and can't tell if things are improving at all.

In three weeks, Retrouvaille is in town, and I think I'd like to go, but I'm not sure how I'd bring it up to him without scaring him off by thinking that I'm trying to stop the D.

I hear goals in your post. For example, you'd like to restore your relationship with your H. You'd like to be there with him. You'd like to have him go to R'ville with you.

Yes, I'd like to restore/transform my relationship and I think R'ville could help, but I'm not sure if those are goals, or just hopes! I think I need much smaller things to work on that are actually within my control.

What I'm not getting is what YOU want out of this.

My thought is that since you can't make sense of what he wants, or says, or does, you may need to step back and figure out what you want with or without him. Honestly. Actions and feelings aside from the recent past, what is it you want?

I have lots of goals that don't directly concern H.

1. My biggest goal right now is to work on my budget and decide where I plan to live when my lease is up in Sept. Should get the new rental amount by the end of this week from my current complex and can actively work on it.

2. Continue to earn enough money from freelance/ independent contractor work to support myself and..

3. Pay for graduate school and finish in a reasonable amount of time. 6 credits done, 30 to go. I just can't let my emotions overwhelm me and slow down my progress.

4. Continue to work out regularly to stay in shape and get in even better shape. I'd love to go back to boot camp again if I can fit it in the budget.

5. Spend time GALing and being with friends as much as possible. It's not as much fun to be a homebody when no one else is ever here with me.

I'm sure I have even more things that I'm working on, but can't think of at the moment. I'm a planner, so coming up with ideas and plans is never difficult for me.

My other thought is that he has some issues he needs to deal with. You may not be able to help with them.

AJ

I know he has things to deal with, low self esteem, depression, and abandonment issues being just three of them. It's hard for me to be on the sidelines and not try to help. That's not what he wants or needs right now, so I definitely need to detach myself from that at the very least.

AJM, you've given me a lot to think about. I need to focus on my own goals since I can actually control those. I also want to learn as much about relationships/communication as I can so that the next relationship that I'm in, with H or not, won't have the same issues.

I need to let H figure out things on his own and not pressure him to hurry up or point him in the right direction. As the saying goes, "those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still." So to have any chance, I need to lie low for awhile and just see what happens.

Logically, I know this, but it's just very difficult to practice.

[AJM]

It is very difficult to practice.

You have goals and it looks like plenty of them. School, work, getting a life.... You have a full plate if you ask me.

Your goals seem on target and you "know" what it is you need to do regarding your H. You also know what you want in terms of your restord marriage.

Here's something to consider though. Your marriage as you knew it, is over. That's important to realize. Whatever happens next is new and likely better - with or without your H. You are changed in that regard and so is he. It can be good though.

Keep at it. You're doing very well with your understanding and you have some solid goals around your life.

Are there some things you want to change about you?

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Yes, there are quite a few things I'm working on for myself.

As a planner, I have a tendency to think in the future and always be considering my next move. That means I don't always take the time to enjoy the present.

H is more present oriented and we should have rubbed off on each other more, but now it's up to me to work on that.

I was so busy planning our retirement and future together that I didn't enjoy the moments we did have together. I know now that I can't take anything for granted as the future isn't promised to me.

This led me to take on as many work projects as possible, to pay our house reno's and retirement planning, at the expense of spending time with extended family.

Now, I appreciate every moment I have. Each time I see H's family, I know it might be the last, so I made sure not to miss Thanksgiving, Christmas, or any other chance I had, even if I spent more time on the road driving there then I was able to be there. My priorities have changed.

Having money in the bank is important, but it can't keep me company at night. As Suze Orman says, "people first, then money, then things." I guess it just took something this extreme for me to realize that's not how I was living.

I've also spent most of my life being extremely logical, letting facts take precedence over emotions. I wasn't Spock, but pretty close to it.

H used to complain that I didn't express how I felt. I was always thinking and planning, not really feeling, so I never knew what to say.

So while I'm not happy about this sitch, when H first told me that he was considering a life without me, it definitely opened the floodgates of my emotions. What do you know? I am an emotional person.

Maybe if I'd realized that earlier, it would have been easier to show H that I did love him and need him. I can't change the past, but I can make sure I don't make the same mistake in the future.

It's still hard for me to express them, especially as I feel that it may be too late to make a difference for us, but I'm trying.

I also have a tendency to be sarcastic and perhaps even condescending. I think it's a way of trying not to show my feelings, especially when I'm hurting.

I don't intentionally try to hurt anyone, but it seems that I have. So I know I need to work on making sure that my next partner understands how important he is to me and that I'd never hurt him.

I've always wanted to show that I'm tough and independent, not needing to rely on anyone. And while I need to do that now, it's not the best attitude to have when you're in a relationship.

I need to learn how to show that I'm vulnerable. That terrifies me because I don't like to admit it.

When I started dating H, I felt that he was the one person who would never hurt me. I was worried that I'd hurt him. I guess I did, and he just couldn't put up with it anymore.

I know that I'm not perfect, far from it, but I tried to hide it. My self preservation ended up damaging my M which wasn't my intention at all.

Maybe this is how I can bring up R'ville to H. Explain to him that it is for couples, but I need to work on my communication and other skills. I can't go alone, so I'd appreciate if he'd go with me.

[AJM]

Actually, you can go alone to R'ville if I remember correctly. It might be worthwhile too.

Sounds like you actually have quite a few goals. Have you written them down in a single list? That makes them real

Being vulnerable is hard to do. You have to feel safe to do it. You have to work at it, but so does your partner.

I'm curious though. Why did you feel you had to be tough and independent and not show your emotions?

AJ

[AJM]

Hey SBR, how's things?


AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Why did I feel that I had to be tough? You know, I'm not really sure. I've been like that since I was a kid, but I don't know why it started.

If I seemed tough, no one could hurt me. Even if they did, I could hide it so they'd never know. I'm not sure why I felt like I had to do that.

This week has been a roller coaster. The first two or three days I had no communication with H, except a few texts about the house. On Wednesday, he texted to borrow the blender and said that I was welcome to come to the house and play board games.

Shocking himc , I'm sure, I agreed (I never play board games!)and had a pretty good time over there. I stayed up til 2 even though I had to wake up by 5 (another 180) and enjoyed myself.

The next day I went by the house to pick something up and H invited me to come back that afternoon to get lunch. I agreed.

Friday the AC went out in my apt, so H told me that I could stay at the house. I went over and was asked if I wanted to join him and his friends at one of my fave restaurants. I agreed and had a good time.

I was a little disappointed that he'd taken a pic of the guys at the table and tagged them in a FB post about being out with good friends. No mention that I was there, but I know I shouldn't let it bother me.

Right now, I'm just trying to get all of the last minute home repairs done to the house so it can close on the 30th. I've asked H to get some estimates and call the plumber, but he isn't working as fast as I'd like.

His S comes into town next week and he'll probably be starting a job soon, so I'd like as much of the work done as early as possible so he isn't overwhelmed. And I know that if he doesn't get to it, I'll be forced to do it since my name is on the mortgage so it's ultimately up to me.

It's really starting to hit me that the house will be sold soon and H and I won't have anything keeping us connected.

Even though I haven't lived there in a year, I still used that as my address for the stability. I don't like moving around and that's why I bought a house here as soon as H and I were serious.

I'll finally get to see if H will make any effort to see me when we're not living less than a mile from each other. I think I'm just afraid that I already know the answer to that.

Added to that is the realization that I really can't afford to stay in my apt for another year, especially after I use most of my savings to close on the house, so I've been apt hunting as well. It finally got to me today and I've been crying over the thought of not having a permanent place to live anymore that I can call my own.

I feel very down today and just want to get through all of these decisions that are weighing down on me. Tomorrow is another day and hopefully I'll cope better.

[AJM]

Good to hear you had a good time. Sounds relaxing.

If you were to find out (God forbid, but hypothetically speaking) that you had 6 years to live, would you be happy being known as tough and invlunerable? Would you feel like you missed out on "something" because of that wall? Don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for that. I'm just curious. I'm also curious to know how others would view you - thoughts?

Something to consider is that a house is just...a house. You can get another at a later date. You'll be surprised how easy that can be. And sometimes we have to lose it all to get something better, right?

Something I noticed in your posts. Try not to have expectations right now of H. The FB posts etc. Think of it this way: if you got what you expected, you might miss something better, even where your H is concerned.

Your plans are in motion and will be completed before long. Don't get discouraged. Time can be your best friend. As far as time goes, there are many on these boards that spent years in that state of limbo. It can be done (I'm in that group). It's not a good feeling, but it's not impossible and it has its benefits.

And you're right, tomorrow is another day and it's bound to be a great one..if you make it that way. It's all about perspective.


Peace!

AJ

[dbmod]

do you want this thread 'stuck' or is it ok to unstick?

[sweetbabyred]

I'm okay with it being unstuck. Either way is fine with me.

[sweetbabyred]

Thanks AJ for all your feedback.

I thought I was doing well, because I didn't have expectations that H would act like a husband, but that was because I just replaced them with expectations that he'd treat me as well as he treats his friends.

Right now, I'm in limbo, where he'll spend time with me if he has no one else around or at night when he's lonely. So I need to give up all expectations and take things as they come.

I don't act tough around my friends. I haven't told most of them much of my sitch, other than H is trying to figure out what he wants, so we're separated right now, but I've never tried to hide my feelings.

I think it's only in relationships that I'm worried that I'll lose myself if I'm not strong or independent enough.

My friends, guys and girls, all think that I'm a great person and aren't sure why H wouldn't want to be with me anymore. They know that I'm loyal and nice to everyone.

It's not so much the physical house that I'm scared of losing. When H first told me he wasn't sure what he wanted, I was the one who immediately said we had to sell it.

We've had so many projects to do, that after a year or so I seriously looked into selling it and moving into an apartment with H so we didn't have the stress of home repairs and could concentrate on our future.

It would have been an apartment we would have been able to afford for years at a time, so we wouldn't constantly be moving. I just want the stability of being in one place for awhile.

I consider myself a Buddhist and didn't think that I had that many attachments to stuff, but I am definitely attached to the feelings of safety and stability that I felt they provided.

I really like the idea that "sometimes you have to lose it all to get something better". Maybe that should be my new mantra.

I think I'm putting aside thoughts of R'ville for now. H is definitely not up for it and he'll have his son that weekend, so it would be difficult to convince him. It'll be back in town in October; maybe we can go then if H changes his mind. He wouldn't get much out of it now since he doesn't consider us a couple at this point.

I plan to go apartment hunting this week to see what my options are. I have almost two months to decide where I'm going, but only two weeks to decide if I'm staying where I am. I love it, but it's pricey and I really should be trying to save money now.

I have lots of decisions to make, but I get to be in charge. I found a plaque at a store the other day with this quote from Dr. Seuss.

You have brains in your head.
You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself
any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
And YOU are the guy who'll decide where to go

I may go back and buy it. It wasn't that expensive and might be good to have as a daily reminder on my wall.

Today is a better day than yesterday and I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

[AJM]

Buddhist? Isn't there a saying..If it hasn't happened yet, it isn't time for it to yet?

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

AJ, I haven't heard that saying before, but it's a good one.

I have a problem being impatient and wanting things to happen on my time table. Sitting back and letting things take their course just isn't natural to me, so I'm trying to 180 that right now.

I think I'll feel a little less stressed in three weeks when the house is gone and I will have already decided whether or not I'm moving out of my apt in Sept (have to give notice in 11 days).

[AJM]

When it comes to feeling less stressed, it's a matter of mind over matter. Mind less and it'll matter less right?

And there's no time like the present to be less stressed. There's always something that will distract you and allow you to say, "tomorrow I'll feel less stressed."

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

AJ,

Your advice is spot on. I'm always thinking that life will be easier in the future because of some difference in my sitch, but no matter what, it never gets easier.

I am feeling a little less stressed because I'm taking the steps I need to get things done.

I've met with 4 painting companies to get estimates to make the HOA happy when the house sells, and will soon decide which one to go with. I just have a kitchen table and some wall art in the house, so no packing for me.

H will have my SS10 beginning on Monday, so I hope that I'll get to see him soon. When he's around, I definitely spend time in the present and enjoy spending time with him.

It's been a while since I've watched Spongebob and it's hard to be depressed when I'm laughing at cartoon characters.

[AJM]

Keep up the positive steps!! Live in the present as much as you can with as much effort as you can muster!

Spongebob, eh?

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Yes, my SS still loves Spongebob and I admit that I think it's pretty funny now too. He's growing up fast, so I'm happy to indulge him in any kid's activities.

The last two days I've been able to work with some great people, so that took my mind off my sitch for a few hours and it's been easier to stay positive.

I've also sat down to budget and I then I can stay in my current apartment if I'm extremely frugal. With so many other changes, I don't really want to move right now.

In a year or so, I may decide to move to another area, but I'm happy with where I am right now and don't want to give that up just because I might be divorced soon.

[AJM]

You're amazing, Sweet. You have a very clear head and you've seen some ways to get a break from it all.

Keep up the positive attitude and don't let the good times get by you without enjoying those kinds of moments. Monetary things won't be as long lasting as the moments you described...

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Amazing? Thanks, but I don't know if I'd go that far.

I definitely haven't felt that way the last few days. Just another 10 days or so until the house is sold and that pressure is gone.

I did get to see my SS yesterday and I'll be taking care of him tonight until H gets back in town tomorrow night. So I'm going to enjoy that time with him and not think about the future.

I'm going to write down some more of what happened yesterday on my thread.

I just need to remember to stay detached and take it one day at a time.

[AJM]

I think it's amazing. You are doing very well. Keep it up!

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

I enjoyed my time with my SS, but it definitely wasn't long enough. I hope that I'll get to see him more over the next few weeks, but I don't know what the future brings. H knows that I'm not busy working this week, so I'm just going to lie low and see if he offers for me to see him.

SS's birthday is August 4th, and I did tell H to let me know if he made plans so that I could be sure not to schedule work if it's something I'm invited to. They may go back to H's hometown that weekend, but H said he didn't know yet. I'm not sure if that meant he doesn't know if he's going or he doesn't know if he's going to invite me. I decided not to ask and just take it one day at a time.

Next Saturday is the big move for the guys and I guess I'll spend Sunday making sure everything is finished at the house before the closing on Monday (I hope!).

I think that having the house sell has finally made the separation real to me. I've been out of the house for exactly a year now, but only lived a mile down the road, so I could be there when needed and was there quite a bit (invited, of course) when SS or MIL were staying there.

And I have spent quite a few nights there over the past year, so at times I could almost pretend that everything was back to normal.

Now we're not going to have anything to tie us together, except car insurance and a cell phone plan. But maybe this will finally make it real to H as well.

H always knew that I was just down the street too, so I think he could play the life of a single man, but then call on me when he was lonely or missed me. It's not going to be so easy for him anymore. Maybe this will make it easier for him to decide what he really wants in life. I'm not going to hold out hope that he'll choose me.

Next Monday will probably be tough on me, so I think I may try to schedule the massage that I purchased on sale a few months ago for Tuesday morning. That'll give me something to look forward to. Or maybe I'll see if one or two of my friends will come to my apt and drink some wine with me that evening.

I sure don't feel amazing. I'm just trying to take it hour by hour right now. I just hope I can keep it together at the closing and not start crying in front of everyone.

[AJM]

Crying doesn't keep you from being amazing, SBR. It really doesn't. It happens because you care.

I think you're doing a great job and keeping things real. It's not easy to do and takes time and effort. You seem to be putting both into it and I applaud that.
Peace!
AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Today didn't go so well. H and I are both so stressed with all the last minute hiccups of selling the house. And I finally realized that I have to come up with $8k on Monday just to get out.

H will pay me back eventually, but that doesn't help me now. And most likely I'll still pay half of it.

So we were both stressed and H said that he did love me, but he was bored with me and I was no fun to be around. That hurt, because I know I'm overly serious, but I do think a lot of that had to do with the hassle of owning this house. And I had hoped that once the house was gone, we could spend time together without dealing with all of those issues.

So I just needed to get through the last few days and act as if. H moves out tomorrow and the closing should be Monday. Instead, I fell apart and just kept crying. Then I sent emails apologizing.

I need to figure out how to enjoy life more and not take it so seriously. I've always been like this, but I don't want to be that way anymore. This was definitely a wake up call that playing it safe doesn't take away all risk.

Part of me still hopes that after H moves out and really sees what life is like without me that he might be willing to try again. But I may have undone all of my efforts the last few months.

If only there were a rulebook on how to let loose and just relax. But that's kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

I need to wake up in a few hours for work and hopefully I'll be busy so I won't think about the movers packing up all of my H's things.

Detach and have no expectations--that's so hard to do. I think I'm doing better and then seriously backslide.

[AJM]

Doing better and then backsliding...that's just part of the dance so to speak. Heck, if it was easy, wouldn't we all do it? Naturally?

Something kind of struck me in this: he said he loved you but was bored with you so he left? WTF is that? Are you a playtoy for the amusement of others? If you've always been like this, did he not know what he was signing up for? Did you change? Is it that he can blame you for his leaving? (he will, but he is presumably a grown man and can make his own choices for his own reasons; however unpleasant his choices. An adult doesn't blame others for their own actions.)

That it stung is something I think you should work out for yourself. Because if it stung, there may be some truth to it at least in your mind. But it sounds to me in this post that you are wanting to change to get him back. Or rather to hold on to the life you planned to have with him. I'm not convinced that's a good way to operate, ya know? Doing something to please somebody else so they will like you is going to end badly at some point in my experience. Am I missing something?

I can also tell you from experience that it's only money. It [censored]. But it can and most likely will be made back.

Are you waiting for something in particular to live your life? For things to be a certain way or to have a certain feeling first? Just asking...

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

I've learned enough from this site not to believe anything that H says. So I know that the reason he left is not because I'm no fun.

I'm 99% convinced that he's been scared of losing me from the beginning and my trip to India with very little contact pushed him over the edge. Because of that, he decided to leave on his own terms so that he never had to worry about me leaving him again.

That said, I've always been overly responsible and reliable. That makes people love to hire me to run their events, but I'm not the most exciting person to hang out with. I really am trying to work on letting loose and just enjoying life.

I'm going to have money struggles for awhile, but once the stress of the house is gone, I should be better able to cope. Ever since we owned it, there's always been one project after another in the works.

And they were never fun projects like remodeling the bathroom, more like repairing the foundation, replacing 30 year old windows, replacing carpet and flooring after a broken water pipe, and fixing broken ac units. So it was always difficult for me to spend money on "fun stuff" because I knew what needed to be done with the house.

Now, I'm always budgeting some fun money. It may only be $20 a month, but that allows me to have a girls night or hang out with friends. I'm never going to be wild and crazy, but I want more fun and spontaneity in my life. I had a counselor once call me "hyper responsible" and I don't want to be that way any more.

I want to change that so I can feel better. I think being a homeowner (who got completely taken by the home inspector!) just magnified my responsible side. I could never think about having kids in a house that seemed to be falling apart.

I'm not crazy enough to think that things will be perfect once it's gone, but that huge stress will be off my shoulders. And then if H and I decide to communicate, it can be about our own lives and not what needs to be done with the house.

Yesterday, when I was at work and the movers were at the house, H texted me saying that this moment was the saddest he's been in a long time. I think maybe he'll finally start to see what being separated is all about. And if that's the life he wants, it's his choice.

I'll be here making all the improvements to myself that I've wanted to do for awhile, instead of spending all my time and money improving the house.

AJ, I'm not sure if I'm waiting for something to happen to begin my life. It sure seems like I am, but I'm not sure what or why I feel that way. Maybe "life is what happens when you're busy making plans" should be my mantra. I'm so focused on getting to the next step, no matter what it is. I guess that is something else I need to work on.

[AJM]

Hey Red. I know it sounds a bit harsh, but in many ways getting rid of the house is a good thing from what you've said. It's symbolic in some ways of a large burden. All houses need work, but this one doesn't sound like it's worth it. Material things aren't really worth much, now are they...?

It might be good to take a breath and look at the world around you. What you describe, while successful in many ways for a lot of people, could also be a recipe for burn-out. You sound like a CEO in the making. I'm not saying that's a bad thing if that's what you want, but to be a great leader, you do have to learn how to round out your life and not just focus on tasks.

Even God took a break, right? Not because he was tired I'm sure, but as an example of how we should live our lives. It's not that you can't keep up that pace. Your body and mind will take a great deal of punishment. People will be in awe.

But as for you - that won't be the life you dreamed of as a little girl - I'm just guessing. Maybe you did

As for your H. I have seen similar in my own life. There were times it was as if my ex was afraid I would leave her and so she had to leave first. Except as she did those things, it wasn't quite "right" with her. Her issues may go deeper than MLC or they may not. Your H's issue may as well. I gave up trying to figure out those kinds of mysteries long ago. It wasn't healthy to try and figure out.

Instead, I let go. I let go lovingly even though I was met with all kinds of opposition. Even though at first, I was kept picking it back up or got baited back into the drama. But letting go and letting her make her own decisions (as if I had a say in it, right?) was the best thing I would have ever dreamed of doing.

I think for you the same is true. Let him make his choices and accept what they are in that they are his. You make your choices and expect the same from him. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And maybe figure out if you truly are waiting on something or if you have just not been noticing your life as much you'd like

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Thanks AJ.

You're not being harsh about the house. As much as it symbolizes the life we had together, I think I'm okay letting it go. If H and I have another chance, we can always buy another house (not that we'd want to after this one!).

I think it's tough for me because one of my big goals was to own a house by the time I was 30. And by that birthday I had a house and a fiance. And now, with my 35th coming up in a few months I don't have either one.

I saw H twice today as he came to get the last two truck loads of boxes/furniture from my garage. He didn't sleep at all last night and doesn't seem to be taking this too well.

I think he's starting to realize what is going on and doesn't seem quite sure how he got here. I've at least had a full year to try to work on myself and figure out what went wrong and H seems to just now be starting. It's sad to see him hurting, but there's nothing I can do.

I do feel bad that SS is finally getting a chance to spend time with his dad and H is so mopey and uninterested in doing anything right now.

Rounding out my life and not focusing on tasks? Hmm, I really do love my to-do lists and now they're even available online. But I should be focusing on the bigger picture, like my relationships with friends and family. And those things can't be checked off so easily.

I was good today at not offering advice to H when he was talking. I just listened, but didn't say anything. H needs to figure out what will make him happy. At least he's starting to realize what doesn't make him happy.

As I'm reading in other threads, I can't be a fixer or teacher as far as H is concerned. I need to keep that in my professional life.

[sweetbabyred]

I took a stand today. Several times, most recently yesterday, H has told me he's going to stop talking to his new friend because she uses him and doesn't treat him very well. I've heard it before, so I never really believe it, but I don't want to hear about it any more.

If he wants to spend time with people who don't treat him well and he recognizes that, he needs to figure out what to do. It's frustrating for me to hear it and see nothing happen to change it.

So today, after he dropped off SS for me to watch and mentioned that she might be coming to my apt complex to help him return a work vehicle, I decided that I wasn't going to put up with it any more.

I texted him and told him that he could be friends with whoever he wanted, but that I didn't want to hear any more about it. No late night phone calls when he's upset, no more listening to him complaining about people using him.

I think he was pretty annoyed by that, as he was at my apt for all of 10 seconds picking up SS and kept telling him to hurry. But I can't be his confidante any more.

This may mean that I'll hear from him less, but that's okay. Maybe if he doesn't have me to vent to, he'll actually do something about it.

[AJM]

Sweet, I get it. Truth be told you could be his confidante, but I think you do very much need to do what's right for you even more at this point. I think you did that by telling him.

You'll need to stick to that so be mindful of that boundary, Ok?

I think you're a very smart person, Sweet. Stay focused on what's important! The rest will fall into place.

I'm out for a while on vacation, but I hope to be able to check in while I'm gone. I hope things go well for you. I think they will

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

AJ, I think that months or years from now, well after we're divorced (if that happens), when I've completely accepted that we're never going to be together, I'll be able to listen objectively.

As messed up as it is, I still consider H my best friend and the idea that I won't hear from him for awhile, if at all, really terrifies me, but I know that I have to stop hearing about all of this. He knows that I feel he deserves better and that he needs to love himself. I wish I could be there with him to talk it through, but it's too frustrating.

The tough part will be to cut him off if he does call and start talking about it, but I've set a firm boundary and let him know, so I need to be strong enough to stick to it.

Thank you so much for continuing to read my story and encourage me. I really do appreciate the feedback and it helps to know that someone thinks I'm strong enough to get through this.

Have a great vacation! Have fun and don't worry about checking in on me. I'm sure not too much will have changed by the time you get back.

[AJM]

Hmm.. You know he has fears and issues. So does he. I think you are doing the right thing setting and enforcing boundaries. Being very clear and communicative. The rest is really up to him.

And I check in because I care, Sweet. I really do. I would rather you have somebody to talk to. I think it's important as you figure these things out. Somebody that's outside and doesn't know either of you may be able to help you keep some perspective, right?

I won't write a lot though. Vacation is vacation after all...

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Thanks for checking in. I do have quite a bit to update re: my boundaries, etc., but I'm heading out to a good friend's house tonight to drink wine and chit chat. My favorite type of GAL!

Hope your vacation is relaxing.

[AJM]

Awesome! Glad you're GAL'ng.
And thanks for the well wishes. Vacation has been AWESOME!! Went to the olympics (I didn't qualify (nor did I try) but took my son for his 15th birthday) - it's been a blast!!

Look forward to hearing about it.

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Yes, I had a great time with my friend and really do need to spend more time doing things for me. In the next week or so I'm getting headshots done, so I've got a facial and a few other things to look forward to.

I wrote a long post on my other thread, but extremely long story short, I did keep to my boundaries and while I'll do anything for my SS, H will most likely be on his own for a while.

I do still love him and care for him, but it may take him losing all of his real friends for him to rethink his decisions.

The Olympics? How fun! I went to a few of the events for the 96 games in Atlanta, but I'd do anything to go back to the UK.

[AJM]

The trip back was a bit rough, but it was a great time. Very interesting and really great to spend that time with my son like that.

Headshots?

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Yes, I work in marketing, so every few months or so I need new headshots so the companies know who is representing their brands. I can't get much work without good ones.

Right now I'm busy with my MIL and SS11 at my apt while H is out of town. Less than a week before SS goes home, so I'm trying to enjoy every day.

I promise to have better updates on my goals after this next week is up. I can't spend too long on the computer when my MIL wants to chat.

[AJM]

Gotcha. Keep that PMA and enjoy the days!

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

Ok, I finally have a free moment to update.

I've been doing really well on my boundaries. H kept trying to overstep, but I put my foot down and refused to allow it. He got angry, but I kept with it.

I also decided to state another boundary. No late night phone calls. H had a habit of calling me between 12-1 am to chat. He probably starting doing this again in the last 2-3 months.

At first, I would take any opportunity to hear from him, but decided that it was just interrupting my sleep. And either he'd say something that would upset or unnerve me, or he'd say something nice and just confuse the heck out of me.

Either way, it didn't make it easy to go back to sleep, so after a late call on Friday, I sent him a text asking him to keep all conversations to the daytime, unless it was an emergency.

I'm proud of myself for doing that. It would be nice to be H's last call of the night, but only if he really wants that and not because he's lonely or drunk. I deserve better than that.

It was great to have my MIL here for a few days. She was able to see for herself just how chaotic things can be when H keeps changing his mind and refusing to give us info. It was nice to have confirmation that it is indeed strange and I'm not the one going crazy.

It's been exhausting these last few weeks trying to keep all of this confusion from SS. He's a smart, sweet kid and I just wanted to protect him from all of it. He's on his way back to NY, so now it's time to concentrate on me for a change.

I've been keeping my PMA and being thankful for everything in my life that is going well. Every little thing counts.

[AJM]

Kind of nice sometimes to get that affirmation that you're not crazy, no?

Glad for the boundaries and glad you're doing well and focusing on you. Keep it up!

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

I think I've moved on and then something happens to upset me again. The other day I noticed two volleyball reg charges on my Amex card. I texted H to let him know, just in case he was double charged. He didn't respond and I didn't think much of it.

Today I discovered that his "friend" is now signed up on the league. So I really can believe none of what he says. I'm just so upset that he is taking her to places where people know that he's married.

If he wants to try to be with her (even though she thinks he's too old, her parents wouldn't like it, and she doesn't want a kid), he's free to do that once we're divorced, but right now his friendship is truly crossing a boundary.

So now I'm trying to decide if I'm strong enough to pull off the "after the lrt" that is mentioned in DR (my own copy of which, incidentally, arrived in the mail today), where I basically tell him I love him enough to let him go and go NC, so he can see that there will be no R of any kind if he continues with her.

H thinks that since she doesn't want to be with him, they're just friends and I should still be able to be friends with him too and accept that. I've tried to pretend she doesn't exist, but I feel like I'm acting like a fool. This isn't the H I married and I'm not sure if I could be friends with him after this is all said and done.

Should I stick with the LRT as I was doing it, along with my 180s, or should I just move into the ALRT? I don't want to over react, but maybe he does need to see that his behaviors have consequences.

H keeps saying that he's delayed filling out the forms because I'd have no reason to talk to him any more and he's afraid of losing me, so that's why I think this may be the way to go.

[AJM]

Just for the sake of argument, last resort is just that. Last resort. To be effective in any way, you have to be willing to walk away. It's for when you get to a point where you say enough is enough, regardless of the outcome, you're not going to live like this any longer. Period.

You do it for you and for you only.

He seems to want to stay connected. Why is that, do you think?

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

AJ,

Why does he want to stay connected?

Well, I know that he's told my mom that he was so happy to have me in his life because he hung out with a bad crowd before and I really helped him improve his life. He even told her that when we visited her at Christmas, just 3 months before BD.

So many of his friends who knew him before we met have told me how happy he seemed after he met me, that he'd really gotten his life on the right track.

Even his IC told him in late June or July that he really needed to keep me in his life because I'm a good influence on him and I really believe in him.

Maybe a small part of him does realize that his life is/was good with me in it. Even he has said in the last week or so that I'm the only who who has never hurt him or abandoned him when things got hard, like all of his fair weather friends. But they are fun and exciting, and "take his mind off of everything that is going wrong in his life" (his words).

But, as good as I may be for him, he really isn't showing me that he can be there for me. This week, when he was out of town, I got calls or texts every day. One text even said we should meet up for drinks some time because he still wants to be friends.

He got home Thursday sometime and I haven't heard anything from him other than a "have a good day" tm on Friday, the day he was supposed to be bringing me a check for $500 on bills I've paid. Now I may be getting it Sunday night or Monday am, although it was first promised to me on Aug 2nd. I'm definitely not a priority.

Oh, another good reason for him not to file is that he knows I'm canceling all of the credit cards where he's a joint user. He has horrible credit and needs at least one card for work. He keeps telling me that he doesn't understand why I need to cancel them, because I should trust him to keep paying. Can't trust him to keep his marriage vows, but the credit cards must be sacred!

I'm not sure if I can be comfortable with him just deciding to change the rules and just be my friend instead of my husband. Do I really need a friend who plays by his own rules? The best friend that I married would never have been so inconsiderate.

So he may have a reason to hang onto me, but if he doesn't change, I don't think I have a reason to stay with him. He's told me that he thinks he's in love with this girl, but I shouldn't be concerned because she doesn't want him.

I do love him, but even I am beginning to wonder if there is a way to come back from this and have a new M with him. I know it's a last resort, but I may need to do it. That way at least I would have some control over the sitch.

I'm confused, hurt, and frustrated. I like having a plan and living in chaos is so stressful.

[AJM]

I get it, sweet. I hear you.

I don't usually do this. I'm a proponent for marriage and for keeping one's vows. But honestly, after going through similar myself, I'm inclined to agree with you.

Why? Because you have to make decisions that are good for you. In a marriage you make those decisions with the other in mind. In this case, it might be good for him as well long term.

While I don't advocate divorce, I don't see how this is good for you either. At some point, you'll say enough is enough and be done for good. Sounds like that point is coming.

While nobody would blame you, I am just suggesting that you make sure it's what YOU want at this point. That you figure out when you can't live like this anymore.

If that point comes, and it sounds close, then have courage. If it comes to that, know that you had no other choices that you could live with.

I did the same thing. The difference was that I made sure to not help her with the divorce. I wouldn't have changed that for anything although I was ready to stop it all. I knew I had had enough and was willing to accept whatever came of my decisions. I knew I had tried everything and I do NOT regret any of my actions.

A clear conscience is a good thing.

Peace of mind is priceless.

AJ

[sweetbabyred]

AJ,

I haven't forgotten about this thread, but this past week has been extremely busy. I accepted an almost full time job that will begin sometime in October and had to do all the paperwork, etc. that went along with that, found out that my cat is pre-diabetic and requires twice daily insulin shots, and had my graduate courses begin.

I've decided, for the time being at least, to continue to stand for my marriage. I was very frustrated and thinking about the potential tax obligations of still being married at the end of the year.

I took time to actually sit through all of the options and decided that if standing for my marriage will potentially give us the chance to start over and begin again and possibly have years of happiness together ahead of us, owing a few thousand in taxes this year isn't such a big deal.

I'm stubborn and I don't like to give up. I know that he's hurting and I can't do anything about it, but I'm going to stop asking him how's he doing on the divorce papers. I'm going to be busy living my life and let him figure out what he wants to do. At some point I may decide to speed up his decision making process, but right now I'm going to take it day by day.

[AJM]

And that Sweet, is the best way to do it in my opinion. Day by day being you each and every step of the way.

Good luck and God speed,

AJ