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One step forward, one step back, one step forward...

Ready for the abuse, so let me have it...

Saturday was a rough day for me. When I was leaving work on Friday, they asked if I could come in on Saturday because they were making some big changes and needed me there. I had to get my SIL to watch my Ds for me since I had to be in early on Saturday. I ended up putting in a ten hour day.

Shortly after I got home, W calls me. She said she is just getting off work (which is an hour and a half later than normal) and wanted to know if I wanted to grab a drink and something to eat before she picked up the Ds as Saturday is her night. Such a rough day, I decided to say yes this time after saying no for two weeks.

We stopped for a drink and had a really good time together. Talking and laughing a lot. We decided to have dinner and did a lot of talking. She talked about how it was when we first starting dating. How she was seeing someone else and I won her heart. She apologized for how things have been and what she did was wrong. (OMG, finally). But didn't say she was done with OM (WTF).

In the talks, she told me how W and OM argue a lot and how we never argued. I told her how I was going to tell her no tonight because I am too good to be her Plan B. She reasoned that there is nothing wrong with hanging out as friends and how people do it all the time. I told her that until we are done, that isn't a good idea for me.

She went back to how she fell in love with me the first time. She liked how I won her over. She explained to me how she is older and is confused on what she wants. How she wants to do things with me, etc. I told her that there are a millions things I want to do with her, but while the OM is around, I will not do it.

She complimented me a lot. How much better I was looking due to my working out. How much nicer I was dressing. She told me she isn't having as much fun going out anymore. (When she first moved into her apartment, she was all about going out every night).

She called her mom and told her she would pickup the Ds in the morning so she could hang out with me late.

After dinner, we had more drinks and did a lot more laughing and talking. We went to a late movie, but couldn't make it as it didn't interest us. We bounced between movies and finally decided to call it a night shortly before 1:00am because we had to be up early for our trip to the amusement park.

I paid for everything as I am old-fashioned and believe the man should pay. She said it was refreshing. This is because OM is a loser and she ends up paying all the time.

It ended with a hug. Nothing physical. No kissing.


Today at the park, we had a decent time. It was about the Ds as the amusement park we went to was for little kids, not much for adults. No R talk. No M talk. I didn't pursue.

On the way home, all the Ds were asleep in the back seat. She talked more about how nice it is to do things together. I reminded her why we won't be doing things and once the OM is gone, things will be different. She said "what is wrong with competition?" I told her I wasn't going to do that.

My plan is still to detach/GAL. I am not changing my plans to go out of town next weekend. I read it in DR, it says to say yes to some invitations, so I didn't see anything wrong with saying yes on Saturday.

But...
I think back to the reasons the W gave for why she wanted to get away/OM:
- I didn't show her any affection, she felt neglected
- I let myself go
- I never wanted to do anything, she felt her life was going nowhere
- I was depressed and in a funk

So how am I doing on this list?
- I didn't show her any affection, she felt neglected

She wants me to chase her. She wants me to win her again.

- I let myself go

She told me repeatedly that I have made tremendous gains here.

- I never wanted to do anything, she felt her life was going nowhere

She commented on how what I am doing sounds fun and wants to do them with me.

- I was depressed and in a funk

She said she can tell I am much happier.


I really think my W wants to feel desired. She wants me to court her again and win her.

I have no doubt in my mind that OM would be gone within a month if I decided to 'win' her. But I also think if I stay detached/GAL, OM will be gone soon regardless.

I know the 37 rules.

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

She wants me to pursue and chase her. This is the confusing part.

OK, I am ready to get beat up by you.


M-40
W-33
D3, D4, SD13
T 9 YEARS
M 5 YEARS
ILYBINILWY APRIL 2012
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Seriously?? What is wrong with a little competition?? I think I would punch my H in the face if he said something like that to me. That is VERY disrespectful if you ask me.

She still sounds like she doesn't respect you. This is a game to her and I would show her you're not playing until she can end things with OM. Don't just TELL her, SHOW her.

How can a person treat the father of their children this way? I'm confused at what she thinks M is.

I think you're doing well and it's obvious that she's still attracted to you but you need to really commit to keeping your distance while OM is in the picture if you want to gain back that respect from her. A little bit of cake eating is what I'm seeing.


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


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Yeah, I am not going to do it. I am sticking to my guns here.

She knows what she is losing. It is up to her as she knows what she has to do.

She told me last night how my attitude has changed. She said she knew how bad I took it at first, but now I am a lot more confident and happy.

Going to stay on path with detach/GAL. It is working. A month ago, I would have been a wreck after spending time with W. Now I am fine. No anticipation. I am happy with me.


M-40
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D3, D4, SD13
T 9 YEARS
M 5 YEARS
ILYBINILWY APRIL 2012
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Posted by zig on scaredsilly thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2255217&page=1

"it is often written on this board about how, if they sense us withdrawing even the slightest - they move a little closer - all they are doing is checking to see if you're really still there - when they feel you are, then they can happily withdraw again -

it's only when you finally detach that they really start thinking about what they are doing. but the detachment doesn't come easy or quickly - it takes a long drawn out process."


The beauty of this forum is that you can find answers in other people's threads.

This is exactly what my W did to me this weekend and I fell for it (again!) like a fool. She saw me detaching and moved closer to see where she stood with me. She saw that her hooks were still in, so I anticipate she will withdraw from me again.

At least I have identified the main issue I have left to work on and can work on keeping myself out of these situations.

Going to keep on my path. I fell down this weekend, but I am going to pick myself up and will keep moving forward. My recovery time is getting a lot better. In the past if I took a step backward, I would dwell on it and let it consume me. Today, I know I just need to get up and keep moving forward.

It just really svcks when you are looking for any reason, any indication, any sign that things are improving because you want your W back so bad. I can't believe I even considered competing for my W. I saw it as a way to spend more time with my W but when I take a step back, I can see how stupid that is. I cannot allow that to happen.

A big thank you to everyone who posts on these forums. Whether you respond to my thread or another, your words are helpful.


M-40
W-33
D3, D4, SD13
T 9 YEARS
M 5 YEARS
ILYBINILWY APRIL 2012
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Posts: 293
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How long does it take, once you've detached, for the other person to start getting a little bit closer? It has been two weeks for me, one week of NO contact, and we are getting more and more distant from one another. There has to be, like, a breaking point, right?

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I can tell you the history for me and you can see where I screwed up and made this last longer than it should:

Middle April 2012 (3 days)
I find out about the OM. At first I try to stay together in the same bed and do more things with the W. She doesn't stop seeing OM. I go stay with FIL, we don't talk.

3 days she asks me to come home.

May 2012 (3 weeks)
She gets an apartment. I think it is going to be good for us, give her space. She uses it to go out all the time and spend a lot of time with OM while still wanting to spend time with me. I tell her I won't spend any time with her anymore while she sees OM. Step into what I thought was LRT. Tell her she has until August before I file (mistake!!!!).

Just under 3 weeks she asks me to meet for a drink and we have D3's birthday party. The next week she wants to goto a movie, have more drinks, etc. OM still around. I debate spending time with her but come to my senses and stay away.

June 16, 2012 (two weeks)
Haven't done anything not family related since D3 birthday. She asks me out just the two of us. Was a good time. I can tell she sees I am detaching.



My W is going about every two weeks between checking her position with me. I keep falling for it, but between each time, I go darker and GAL more. I have to force myself to say no to her more, let her think I won't always be there.

She is noticing the changes in me and admitting them. I no longer initiate any contact. I do not invite her out unless it is family related as I don't want to deprive my Ds of experiencing certain things without their mom present.

I do not plan on the W needing to check her position with me for a few weeks, so just going to GAL. Going out of town this weekend. Working on plans for the next weekend.


Detach/dark/dim/GAL does work, if you let it. Just get over the fear you will lose them. You may lose them anyways, so concentrate on yourself. Be selfish.


M-40
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Just get over the fear you will lose them. You may lose them anyways, so concentrate on yourself. Be selfish.

Just wanted to highlight that great advice.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Originally Posted By: sophiedaphne
How long does it take, once you've detached, for the other person to start getting a little bit closer? It has been two weeks for me, one week of NO contact, and we are getting more and more distant from one another. There has to be, like, a breaking point, right?


Sophie, I don't know if you quite understand what detaching really means here. It's the point where you (the LBS) don't care one way or the other whether you stay with your spouse or not. You're indifferent to the situation. So therefore, anything you do, you do it because YOU want to, not because it will change your spouse's mind about you.

It's a level of acceptance and gaining back your self-esteem. Knowing that you're a person worth being married to and if your spouse doesn't see that then you really are ok with not being with them anymore. Because now you see that you've made all of this progression and you're not the same person you once were.

It's when the changes are real and they've become who you are as a person. Making you better than you ever were before. This takes A LOT of time to accomplish. Changing habits and behaviors is not an overnight/two week deal. It takes months.


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


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Sophie, I don't know if you quite understand what detaching really means here. It's the point where you (the LBS) don't care one way or the other whether you stay with your spouse or not. You're indifferent to the situation. So therefore, anything you do, you do it because YOU want to, not because it will change your spouse's mind about you.

That pretty much sums it up. I had to stop doing what I thought my W wanted and start doing what I wanted.

When I found out about the OM, I had to know everything. I started to do things I thought the OM was doing because I thought that is what my W wanted. I wasn't doing them for me, I was doing them because I thought that is what my W waned.

Hypothetical:
I do what my W wants in a H. What has she done that I want in a W besides being with her? Where in that situation does my M or R get better? Where have we addressed the problems in our M that led to this? If we never address the problems in the M, what is going to prevent it from happening again?


I struggle with my desire just to be with my W again and working on my M.

I could easily be with my W again and HOPE we can work on the issues that led us apart.

Or we can identify what led us apart, work on those issues and then see if we can rebuild our M.

Neither scenario guarantees we make it.

My M is over. I finally realize that. What I am working on now is IF we start a new M. The old M is gone. I have let it go. I don't want to go back to the old M. There were problems we never addressed or knew existed. If there is a new R/M, it can only move forward if we work on those issues/problems.


M-40
W-33
D3, D4, SD13
T 9 YEARS
M 5 YEARS
ILYBINILWY APRIL 2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 186
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Update:
Doing good. Doing a better job with trying to eliminate any expectations and just concentrating on myself and my Ds.

On Monday, W mentioned to me found bedroom furniture on Craigslist for D3 and D4. My W has been in here apartment since May 6. She had an empty room and half a daybed. When my Ds were over at her apartment on her days, D13 would sleep on the floor and D3 and D4 on the couch or in the bed with W.

After paying for her apartment in May and half for June, I decided her OM could setup the daybed since he was over there more than me. Anything that needed to be done, he could do. Needless to say, nothing has gotten done.

I want my W to experience what it is going to be like financially without me, but I can't have my Ds suffer. I told her I would pay for half of the bedroom furniture and help her pick it up and set it up.

Yesterday morning when I dropped off D3/D4, I brought the mattress for the daybed and set it up for her. Now D13 has her own bed.

Yesterday after work, I helped W pickup the furniture and set it up for D3/D4.

On the drive to/from/etc, I told her that I was doing this for my Ds. She made a comment about how she has been paying her way since May on her own. WTF? I reminded her that I paid for everything in May and half for June. How the F can she rewrite this history? We didn't fight about this, we actually joked about it and she finally realized I did pay a lot for her.

On the way home after dropping off the truck, I asked her if she had everything she needed for the Ds (sheets, etc). She said no. I told her to stop at the store so I could buy my Ds what they needed. She said she didn't want me to spend my trip money. I told her I would rather spend money on my Ds. My W likes to spend money and picked out sheets, pillows and a lamp. No problem for me as I actually have more money since my W moved out.

She asked if I wanted to stay for a bit and have a glass of wine. I told her no because I had to go. She gave me a long hug.


I know I am not supposed to support her decision financially, but I did this for my Ds as their sleeping arrangement was not ideal. Is that my responsibility? Am I still doing too much for her and trying to justify it as it is for my Ds?


Couple of points of interest from yesterday:
- She commented on my physical changes again and touched my chest. She said "wow, that's nice".
- She asked me to research places to go on my trip. I told her I was tired of giving her ideas so she can take someone else. (She always has to pick the date ideas and pay with OM). She told me she was going to go to the same place regardless. Then she added "with a girlfriend". I responded with "Just like you said you were going to XXXX with a girlfriend and the other time you said you were going to XXXX with a girlfriend...." She said no, this time I am really going to go with a girlfriend.
- She seems to ask a lot of questions about my trip out of town
- She thanked me for all the help as I was leaving. I joked "It's because I am a hero. Get yourself a hero and you know the rest." She laughed "And lose that zero".


I have seen a huge change in my W since this began. When this first started, W seemed to be more concerned with going out and being a part-time mom. Now, she is being a great mom again and not going out much at all. Mainly stays in and watches movies on "her" days.

We also joke around a lot more. It used to be very serious and tension filled, all business. Still no texts/calls, just when we meet for handoffs. My fear? She just wants to be friends....

I will be dark until Monday night as there won't be any handoffs of the Ds until then. I won't reach out to her.


M-40
W-33
D3, D4, SD13
T 9 YEARS
M 5 YEARS
ILYBINILWY APRIL 2012
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