and i think you're right KD - it's east coast - i forgot i lived there too - for 5 years.
ooh i was young and dashing back then....
just looked in the mirror this morning and noticed that i look almost as young as i did 20 yrs ago - got it confirmed by my therapist who saw me in the throes of the worst of the movement disorder - when i looked 80 (not exaggerating)
poor h - that's what he left. now i'm confirmed one sexy young looking' chic and starting to have a ball!!
KD - glad you're into caner too - or are you?
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
here's something to spark off a discussion,i imagine.
to preface - can't really understand yet why this was put on my plate today, but i'm giving it at least 48 hrs!!
i was at IC today and we started off with me telling her about what i saw as my progress and the things i was working through and the insights i've been making. also talked a lot about the significant reduction in my anxiety level, once i had gone to the root of what really caused it and acknowledged my deep feelings.
can't remember the whole thing and how the conversation got to this - oh yes - i mentioned briefly that i was starting to struggle with not having sex - this came on the tail end of the sexual issues with my first husband , and how h and i don't have sexual issues, but they BOTH insisted that the amount of sex we had was only because i had been sexually abused and how it pissed me off that they put it all on me. but i talked about how ml was always wonderful between h an i.
so then i mentioned how in a month and a half it would be a year, and how not having any sex was starting to get to me.
the next thing that came out of IC's mouth just about had me on the floor stunned. it was the last thing i expected her to say - beyond the last thing, as it simply hadn't occurred to me. she says - well why don't you go to your husband and say, it has been a long time and my sexual needs are not getting fulfilled and i would like to do something about it with you. that it was my right as a wife to ask that of my husband.
she explained - that it was not a strategy to get him back - she thought i was in a strong enough place to do it, but she said that if i had any expectations that it would lead to something else, then i shouldn't do it - or if it would make me feel terrible that he didn't come back in spite of ml with me. she said it was a no strings attached thing. that she believes in women's empowerment, and that it would be very empowering for me to ask directly for what i want and get it. i responded - like he's taking what he wants and i should do the same?
i asked if she knew anyone else who had done this and what the results were - and she said it happened all the time, and it was a way to gather data about the real state of the marriage. it could be we both found out that we really still had a deep connection (she said the sex life is like the cement of the marriage), or that one of us couldn't actually do it,or both
i said - if we put it in the context of him being in an mlc, how does doing something like this fit in? (in my mind i'm thinking - is this serious pursuing, or if i make it clear there are no strings attached, then its just getting something i can't get from anywhere else, because i intend to stick to my commitment until it is legally ended)
i told her that my first response was immediately - i don't want to sleep with him when he's with someone else. and i was actually quite uneasy when we were discussing this.(maybe the influence of this board and MWD's theories). she said that she wanted me to stop walking eggshells around him. i told her that i have just finally managed to stop doing that
after i described his withdrawal behavior in the last few days - she then said - no you can't do this - you guys are not in a place for that.
and to top it off she pointed out that ow being here for 9 days boded really badly for the outcome of this, i said, there are a ton of people where the WAS lands up living with the ow and they manage to R.
but she said that the fact that he has now brought her up here into HIS life for 9 whole days, makes him realize that he can have this really.
then we ended with me a little upset because we talked about s's b'day party and that i had agreed to do it at in-laws house as usual with h. and how i didn't want to continue to give everyone the picture that we were both okay with the separation - it's our bash of the year party that our friends and kids talk about for months - and how i really did not want to do it - but felt i have to do it for s's sake. s was really upset when i suggested a couple of weeks ago that we'd have smaller party here at my house. then i gave in and changed my mind after pressure from mil.
so oddly enough, after running errands and coming home, i'm a bit like - oh whatever - i'm not really attracted to h right now, i realize, but have to admit that just the thought of possibly even doing that has now been planted in my mind, and as i said in the beginning - wtf? why did i need that
can't help thinking - here's an opportunity that's been given to me - for what? to test my endurance, my patience, my true feelings about h, my true feelings about under what conditions and whom i would like to ml with?
so i imagine the db response to be certain things -surprise me!!
anyone read or heard of anyone actually doing this>
zig
ps. i wish i'd thought to ask her: he's clearly telling me that he does not wish to be my husband right now, so why would i ask him to do what a husband does?
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
First off - probably a good thing to give it 48 hours to think about.
Second - my DB coach has specifically said to not feel bad about, ahem, using H for my own pleasure (and to frame it as, well, you're still my H, I have needs, it's no big deal, etc.). I'm not mentally capable of doing that right now, so I understand your resistance. My concern for you is that if your H is having, ahem, relations with OW, would you want to put yourself in the position of exposing yourself to something that could affect your health, ahem if you get my drift. That [censored] to think about but if it's a possibility then you want to make sure YOU are protected in this situation.
So... no helpful direction here, really, just something to think about and letting you know that the idea maybe isn't as crazy as it sounds.
this is why i posted - to find out if this is part of the db'ing.
have to admit that i am surprised that it is. if one is ready to handle it well. could you say more about what your coach said?
also as far as the std's , i didn't bring it up with IC but i did think about it in my mind. in the very beginning h slept with me before he told me - and then i found out that he hadn't used protection - i seriously lost it - i was quietly angry - but very very angry. he apologized.
apart from not protecting me and himself - what a stupid a$$ thing to do with someone you met on the very first day and TRUSTED them that they were using contraceptives?
ach!! pure frustration!!
thanks vera - i'm glad you responded
this is definitely not something that is openly discussed not he boards - could it be?
zig
fil did the same to mil with each of his affairs, and his affairs were with men. so i guess that sort of disrespect runs in the family.
but if i did choose to do that i'd use protection - which of course he hates!!
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
poor h - that's what he left. now i'm confirmed one sexy young looking' chic and starting to have a ball!!
I thought the same thing. H has said I'm prettier. I can see that for my self. She's 3 years younger than me and looks 9 years older. She's not very into fashion or very "girly" and H is a bit of a snob I find myself being amused by what he must be thinking on some level about her friends. But.....his choices are his choices. We are sexy looking young chicks!!
TBH I think Brits say it. I was just joking that the Queen wouldn't say it!
I say, in the words of Amy Winehouse, NO NO NO. Look it's been chemically proven that women form a connection based on chemicals released at orgasm. This is the opposite of setting boundaries and detaching. Trust me, I used to be one of these you can have no strings S, it's not true.
Also I think one of the big reasons I had trouble with H is that after he'd had 2 dates with GF I seduced him. Totally did it to try and get him back, but told him it was just for old times sake and maybe I wanted to know he still found me attractive. one big massive Mind F*ck is what it was. I don't think you can detach if you're getting naked. just my thoughts. And what if he says NO?
But the choice is yours and I would put it this way....would the person you are striving to become do this? If yes, then go ahead. If no, then buy some toys and pick up a copy of 50 shades of Grey!
Also you IC seems to be giving a lot of opinions, IMO. Mine would say things like I've seen all sorts of things happen with couples and would never say if she felt one way or another. The only positive she said is that it sounded like were still very fond of one another and that she'd seen couples in MC with her who didn't like each other that much.
zig - what she said is pretty much what I typed up there. I think it's really dependent on the individual situation. I like Brit's thought - would your best self do that? My gut says no, I'm not really into it. Would it be a 180 for me? Definitely. But it's not a 180 I'm comfortable doing (and I don't mean, it's uncomfortable to talk to someone at a grocery store uncomfortable).
thanks brit for responding. girl - if i was on the other side of the pond, i'd want to meet you!!
I say, in the words of Amy Winehouse, NO NO NO. Look it's been chemically proven that women form a connection based on chemicals released at orgasm. This is the opposite of setting boundaries and detaching. Trust me, I used to be one of these you can have no strings S, it's not true.
i totally agree - i found myself sitting there thinking - how the hell would i detach while doing THAT!! how can i have sex like that? i want to ml with him in a beautiful way - not just have sex.
besides - i tend to fall in love with the person i sleep with (or should it be the other way around grin!!)
after he'd had 2 dates with GF I seduced him. Totally did it to try and get him back, but told him it was just for old times sake and maybe I wanted to know he still found me attractive. one big massive Mind F*ck is what it was.
oh yes - you don't have to convince me. i actually forgot to post about that. i sort of did the same. i asked h to ml that night saying that just when i was really finding myself sexually he was taking off, and could we just have sex. he agreed and it was great for me.
the next night - we were talking for hours - I had really absolutely no expectations to do it again, and suddenly he turned to me with the most raw look i had ever seen form him - he had never shown me his wanting me that openly and we had the most amazing sex. again i had no expectation. then found out about him not using a condom and got mad. withdrawal for a few weeks,a nd then the next time he was pissing drunk. and that's when it turned into a mndf*ck for me, because after that he came and told me really kindly that HE was going to stop it because it was "better for me"
that was a serious mind f*ck and took me a long time to work through. also the last time when he was drunk - he actually turned away from me and i said - you feel like you're betraying her? and he said yes, and we lay there quietly and i said there's no way we need to do this. then he turned to me and started furiously. i was so mad at myself for continuing with him. i should have stopped it there. i remember feeling that he was just having sex with me - in this callous cold way as if i could have been anyone there - and doing it to prove to himself that that's what it was
later over the next few weeks - occasionally it would be too much for him and he would come and kiss me passionately and tell me how sorry he was and then all of that stopped.
i think - that why this has really come up is not for me to make the choice but to deal with what happened that night. he turned what was the most beautiful thing for us into something that made me feel bad about myself sexually and as a person - and i think i've been carrying that for all these months and haven't been able to deal with it directly.
of course, now i see where before i saw those as signs of hope, sadly now i see that it was his way of confirming that i was still available. should have never let him touch me. i gave so many mixed messages then- asked him to move out until he was done with the affair, but then slept with him and let him his.
sheesh was i a mess back then. NO self-empowerment whatsoever!
oops have to rush off to pick up s but will write more later
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
