this rocky path WILL smooth out

[zig]

thanks labug. i'm okay now -

friend came over (the wife of the guy who's h's closest friend right now, who reconnected with me a few weeks ago)

seems she's determined to hangout with me. i spoke to her about how if she felt that it was too uncomfortable then she needs to let me know and i'm ok with it.

after she and her daughter left here, they were going to meet her h and were invited over to see my h's new house. i think ow is still there...

the odd thing is that she really took the time today to shudder and tell me that ow was a piece of work. so far as to say something pretty derogatory as "she looks like she's been used up and hung out to dry, even though she is really young" she's cute but extremely short and worn out - as if she used too many drugs or slept around too much. i asked if her h had said that and she said yes.

now why did i need to know that ?- it's not as if i asked!!! friend offered to take a pic of ow and i said no way, i do NOT want an image of her in my head on top of everything else.

besides, i really don't care in a way - if h wants to do this, i can make it on my own. sure it hurts, but other things hurt too and eventually you work through the hurt and let it go.

this time is for me - and i think todays gentle kick in the backside was to remind me of that precisely - i can agonize over this, or i can start to see more clearly where i'm at and what i need to do. and what i need to do,is just keep putting gone step ahead of the other and move towards being who i am and what i'm about. for now, i'm just leaving him in the dust. if he feels like he can stand up, dust himself off and move forward

so yes labug - i'm feeling pretty positive here, because finally i am beginning to really trust and have faith - that no matter which way this goes, i DO trust that it all be just fine

hope you're doing well.

luckily it hasn't rained yet, so hopefully we get to play some more frisbee this evening after dinner

zig

[zig]

sorry missed your post earlier, brit.

i don't know if i felt tricked as much as woken up. i think part of me was still "day dreaming" that it wasn't as serious as i thought it was. though of course i don't know how serious or not serious it is - i don't know anything - and i needed to become more aware of that: i don't know anything, and it's okay not to know or know. the significant thing is what am i going to do with myself and how am i going to move forward.

it's odd you know - for the last couple of weeks h's horoscope kept saying "how much of something should you tell someone else - how much should you keep to yourself" i puzzled a bit over it, and figured it was probably a short trip - never occurred to me that she would be here for over a week.

oh well. my horoscope this morning said that the universe was going to give me a gentle kick in the a$$ to wake me up. figured it woke me up good - not in a harsh way but rather gently.

i know this sounds strange but i'm looking in my eyes and at my face in the mirror today - there's a new softness there that i have never seen before and much more sweetness. i've seen that relaxed lovely look on others - and i think it's part of the agape state - it's okay , i find myself thinking - everything is as it should be....

[Brit45]

i don't know if i felt tricked as much as woken up. i think part of me was still "day dreaming" that it wasn't as serious as i thought it was. though of course i don't know how serious or not serious it is - i don't know anything - and i needed to become more aware of that:

VERY VERY TRUE! I need to remember that.

[vera be fierce]

((( )))

[zig]

Just be careful not to own the problem. As soon as you own the problem, you've taken on his meaning as your own and you will then get into expectation mode and then become upset when he DOES NOT do something about it.


yes i see how that works KD


Your H will do something if it serves him. Let him learn the difference between saying something just to say it vs. doing something to serve his own needs or desires vs. saying something as a way to have someone rescue him.

so here's my current dilemma - and i am struggling between what is "expected" of me and what i can expect from h in terms of "not expecting anything"

i want to bring this up right now, because i think it's a boundary issue and i simply don't know how to handle it. i understand now, the concept of no expectations in terms of how i view h , and i feel that i'm there but things get really muddled and murky when it comes up in the context of co-parenting.ihave been making an effort to "go with the flow" in terms of parenting - waiting for him to bring up stuff, as i have found that me bringing it up first is too confrontational and pressuring for him.

but the issue i'm having now, is where in all this do my needs and boundaries lie in this situation. i got 2x4'd a few weeks ago for bringing up my needs in the situation, so now i am confused about how to handle the current situation.

i'll try to be brief about it.

basically, i have always told h that i will fully support him by taking care of s while he works. he stated clearly that he would split his paycheck with me, and it seems only fair, that while he's at work and s is not in school that i take care of s, even when it's h's turn to have him.

now as things have started to change, and i am trying to get back into working and establishing my own financial independence (and i am very far from that right now - my own issues that i have to work on), i'm in the position where i am still financially dependent on him, but taking care of s all day while he works, doesn't allow me to work myself - talk about a double bind!

the current situation: h has not let me know whether he has started teaching summer school (8.30 to 3 pm) today or not. last thursday he still didn't know whether the course was happening or not due to inadequate enrollment.

all of last week he was "unable " to converse with me about any of this in a manner where anything whatsoever got resolved. i realize now that it was due to the presence of ow here with him. it seems as if he is "frozen" somehow when he's with her and absolutely cannot deal with anything from "this" life at those times.

in the beginning of last week he asked if s could stay through this weekend - the only time he's asked to change the week to week schedule is when he's seen ow - other times, he's told me what he was doing. i didn't question why but just replied sure no problem.

then last thursday i asked - when will you be getting s? sunday or monday? he got all funny and then very reluctantly said - well, actually not until tuesday night. i was very taken aback - that's 4 days extra, with no indication beforehand and not saying a word to s about it or to me. i replied well, i had some plans but i guess i will have to change them

he got a bit aggressive and said quite strongly - what plans. i didn't reply, just said it's okay i'll readjust my schedule. then i asked him what he was going to do with s when he started teaching today. he looked shocked - as if he hadn't thought of it at all - and just said very strangely - i don't know, i haven't thought about it.

don't know if it's just me here, being sensitive, but i'm a little amazed that he hasn't bothered to even check with me that it's okay for me to take care of s all day for the entire month of june. it was different during the school year because it was just a couple of hours in the afternoon.

am i being taken for granted here, and should i set a boundary. can i not expect that even though i should have NO expectations, that we could at least clearly discuss what is taking place, whether or not ow is in the vicinity.

can i push him on this issue right now - or wait until she leaves today or tomorrow or whenever.

this is the first time in the sitch that he has changed the "rules" of how we were doing things. until now, things have been very clear from week to week, in advance. but suddenly now, it's as if he's not going to bother.

know it's already done, but should i have insisted that last minute changes were not okay with me and set the boundary last week? i was trying to just let whatever happens happen and not fight anything.

i can't help feeling that inadvertently i gave him the opportunity to see how "easy it is" to have ow here and i'll take care of stuff in terms of s. granted i didn't even know she was here.

this situation really [censored] - i think the issue for me is realizing that i don't even know for myself what the boundaries really are, that in NOT having any expectations, i still don't understand how to "co-parent " in this situation and still be able to have healthy boundaries with him for myself.

i really need feedback on this - i feel that we've reached some sort of crucial turning point here. i just realized yesterday that ow has been here for 10 days - that's a long time. i need to figure out what i am doing or not doing that will allow him the ease of settling into having it all - her being around and me picking up the slack with s?

do i, at the expense of s, insist that he just take care of s, during the week he's with him, and i'll take care of my own responsibilities with s when he's with me? i'm sure he'll throw the financial thing at me then.

i should also point out that summer has always been a huge financially stressful time for us because he's a professor and there's not paycheck for 3 months. he's trying to teach this summer course to make some money so we can live.

yes i know, i'm going to get 2 x 4'd here for why haven't I in 10 months gotten myself together enough to cover my own expense? well - i haven't, and am only realizing now, how "helpless" i have been acting, and need to step up and get my [censored] together on this issue. i have too many "excuses' about why it hasn't happened, i'm ashamed to say.

so i guess when it comes down to it - my questioning my position on this issue, is not about whether i take care of s or not - i think i should, if i'm still financially dependent on him. the issue is how can i make it clear that he doesn't get to just decide whatever whenever schedule wise without any discussion whatsoever.

wow that was quite a mouthful there - sorry it's so long.

thanks for any advice or 2x4's in advance. i feel i'm due the latter big time here!!

zig

[zig]

i guess i want to make clear, that this 'issue" hasn't just come up because i found out about ow being here and it's my reaction to it.

i was already very perturbed last thursday about the way he changed things, and at the time decided to wait and deal with it at the appropriate time.

now i'm trying to figure out how to deal with it.

[zig]

just had a conversation with a friend who helped me see that i don't need to push the boat here.

i'm still reacting, sadly - not as "detached " as i thought i was.

it's a simple concept of "h , i need things to be clear in terms of how and when each of us are taking care of s each week, as i would like to be able to arrange my schedule in advance and know what to expect"

she pointed out to me, that i need to show my own strength and self respect, by making it clear what is okay for me.

she also helped me to see that replying "i guess i'll have to change my plans" as a response was passive aggressive and controlling. that it would have been more appropriate for me to say - especially if i was side balled by the suddenness of it - "let me think about it, i'll get back to you on this issue"

then have time to think what was appropriate for me and do-able. she suggested that i could have said - "i already have plans for monday, but i can keep s monday night and tuesday - you'll have to arrange otherwise for s during the day on monday"

i can see where i put myself in this messed up situation more clearly.



another thing that i did, and which i don't know how to rectify, or whether i should is that last year in november i told h that i didn't want to carry his secret any longer about his affair, and that he needed to arrange his meetings with ow so that i didn't need to know about it.

at the time i though i was protecting myself - what i didn't know didn't need to affect me so much, and then it didn't affect s and the rest of the family.

well, now i feel that it's sort of back-firing on me. the universe seems to have a very strong need to make sure that i know , that i find out, each and every time!!

the problem though is that h is now stuck in a position where he can't tell me because i demanded that, and so situations like this come up, which land up leaving me probably more upset - because he has to maneuver and manipulate them hiding it from me.

am i keeping us in a double bind because of that? if i am, how do i rectify it?

because this is long-distance A and we share s, it's just about impossible for him to take off without it being obvious that he's going to see her - especially since he needs to ask me to keep s. and now of course also when he's here and she comes here - like this last week.

i want to tell him that i don't need that boundary anymore, and if he needs to give me that kind of info, it's okay.

that requires talking about ow and her presence in his life.and i don't care to have a conversation about her, really.besides there the issue of DB'ing and bringing up OP? not sure what to do here.

and if we do have that conversation - what stand do i take - "i accept that you are with OP and am happy for you" or "I am not happy that you are with OP and i have to take care of s while you spend time with her" or "I am not happy that you are with OP but will happily keep s while you are with her" or " "I accept that you are with OP and am happy to keep s while you are with her, i just want things to be clearly stated so that i can make my own plans" (WOW, do i sound like a total nut here?)

on the other hand - is there no other way for him to conduct this affair so that he can keep it out of my life? do i NEED to have this information? i don't want it - am i being unrealistic here in terms of how i'm viewing and dealing with this situation?

i feel like i need a 2 x 4 for every aspect of how i'm dealing with this.

this problem has been there for months and i have just shoved it under the mat, not knowing how to deal with it, and i see my pattern here - the same as during the marriage - i shoved things away in spite of being fully aware that things were pretty bad between us, but because i didn't know how to i told myself i'll deal with it later. now i've done the same with this sitch regarding where s is when he's with ow - knowing i should do something about it but too scared and apprehensive to make any concrete moves, because i simply don't know which are the right ones to make.

is staying still just letting things be, letting him leave s with me even though i know what's going on? that's what i have done, and been happy to do it FOR SON, but i can't help thinking of some of starsky's posts which encourage people here to NOT allow the WAS to get too complacent and comfortable in their situation.

then on the other hand there are the mlc'er vets who say to just let things be, no pressure etc and let them play out while working on yourself and moving forward.

Add s into the mix: if i shrug and say - it's your turn this week, you'll have to keep him, i run the risk of him getting pissed and just bringing ow into s's life when it may not happen if i just let him decide about how things are.

i don't even know what i'm saying anymore - all i know is that this is coming up for me because i am still feeling helpless, manipulated and not all that detached, and how much i need to work on myself in finding my own true place in this.

i started reading LITB's thread from the beginning last night - his stance was so clear and decisive from the start - i lack that terribly - and am finding out only now after all these months, how many issues i have in terms of self esteem, helplessness and knowing what my true feelings are. and that is why it is so hard for me to see clearly where i stand and what it means to be me and function as me. (was on the live strong site for 2 hrs this morning)

i really hope that people will jump in and give me some feedback no matter how hard it is for me to hear. i know my posts are terribly tediously long, and i really apologize for that.

i'm not doing what;s working - i need to figure out what works for me in this and i need outside perspective. i feel as if i'm the one in the fog and can't see.

thanks
zig

[vera be fierce]

Ah zig, take a few breaths here. You don't need a 2x4 for EVERY aspect!

Your friend is wise and spot-on with her assessment of the situation (does she know about DB??). I concur with what she suggested.

I think part of "rectifying" the situation about having H not tell you about his OW plans is to act as if you don't care about what he's doing. You admit yourself that you are not really detached in respect to that. That is a good place to focus to start.

Add s into the mix: if i shrug and say - it's your turn this week, you'll have to keep him, i run the risk of him getting pissed and just bringing ow into s's life when it may not happen if i just let him decide about how things are.

This is kind of exactly what you need to say - it's not your place to fix his scheduling issues especially when he is trying to change a schedule that you already had in place. You can try to set boundaries wherein you say that it is not acceptable for H to introduce S to OW right now b/c it will be harmful to him. However, you cannot control what H does or be concerned with his reactions - this is at the heart of detaching.

[AlwaysTrying]

((zig))

I can really identify with being paralyzed because of being completely unsure what the right thing to do is. I have also wished that I had a clear straightforward philosophy about how I was going to react so that I could act decisively and with few regrets.

But it's all so messy. You can't actually follow all the advice you get. Even simple straight-forward things like LRT take a little finesse. Consider ces who did a fine job with LRT for so long, but really started to make improvements when he opened up lines of communication.

I have agonized over decisions and let the anxiety eat me up inside, but it is probably better to just make some decision and go with it. You can't know what the right best thing to mend your marriage is, but it's probably a lot easier to figure out how to best treat yourself with respect.

You're probably right that it is not time to introduce OW into S's life. You should explicitly set that boundary.

I think by being flexible with your schedule, you are enabling H's affair, and that is not something you should be putting yourself through. Maybe you can set a schedule and make it clear that sticking to the schedule is best for S, and that H needs to respect your time and schedule.

I think you can handle the affair with grace without aiding and abetting it. It's not OK. I don't think there is any reason to legitimize it. He should feel guilty and sheepish about it every time.

[AlwaysTrying]

Oh, also, I meant to add that it sounds like you're dealing with a lot of anxiety and scattered thinking.

Mindfulness can be really helpful with this. I can especially recommend "Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World" by Mark Williams.
http://www.amazon.com/Mindfulness-Eight-Week-Finding-Peace-Frantic/dp/1609611985