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#2249284 - 05/29/12 01:49 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: bustingout]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Glad to hear that was helpful! I went through the same thing and worked long and hard trying to understand it. I really felt like "number 2", that I had been easily replaced, and that I could not compete -- and I hated it! My W was emotionally intimate with OM in a way she never was with me -- and still is not.

What I pass along came from a great MC that I found who helped me with that. At one point I realized that I was not #2, and that it would never be a fair comparison. There's no way that a 16 year husband and father of 3 can compete with the excitement and secrecy of an affair. There's nothing I could do that would "woo" my W the way an exciting stranger can, simply because she knows me too well. There cannot be danger there, and without danger there is less excitement.

Interestingly enough, W didn't view it as a comparison either, she had really compartmentalized it and viewed it as "life #1" and "life #2" -- WAS logic I guess. In any case, she shared that she realized the affair was based on fantasy, and therefore knew it wouldn't work long term. In her words she said it was like a "popsicle" and our marriage was the real meal. All the same, she was addicted to it and did what she could to keep it going.

The addictive effect is really powerful and can't be underestimated. The saddest thing to me about DB is when a LBS really figures out how to DB effectively, but despite their awesome execution, they see no results because OP is still in the picture and the addiction is raging. There is literally nothing you can do -- the goal is not to make your situation worse, because you really can't make it better until things run their course. This is frustrating and awful.

I was very lucky, because I found out about OM right AFTER he had declared "no contact" and his W had found out what was going on. To his credit, he went "cold turkey" and has not reached out since. I say I was lucky, because I did not have to stand by and watch it happen like so many do. I did, however, have to deal with her grieving her lost love, which made her very angry with me. She said horrible things to me during that period, and I remember every one of them.

Once we started to piece, it became very important to me that W was "choosing" me for who I was, and not just because I represented the path of least resistance. Unfortunately, it's impossible to separate the person from "the package" they represent, such as intact family, improved finances, etc. That's another things that the LBS has to battle through and come to terms with.

In any case, I really do appreciate all the kinds words. My "love language" is words of affirmation. W is not willing to speak it, so it really does make me feel good when I'm able to help others.

I hope everyone had a great weekend of GAL activities and was able to take some joy from the break.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2249301 - 05/29/12 02:34 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: Accuray]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thanks, once again, Accuray! I do love hearing your words of advice! They make sense...I just wish it would click with the WAS quicker, or at all!

After all my GAL activities this weekend, now I'm home and feeling sad. I hate this roller coaster ride! At times, I really do want to just drop all of his things off at his new apartment and be like "here you go, it's done!"

Not that it would make me completely detach from him, but then I would in a way know I tried everything. I have been pretty much dark (except for seeing him Saturday for refi papers that was necessary) for 6 1/2 weeks and it has not done anything for our M. It has made me GAL and hang out with more people but at the end of the day, I don't feel that much better, because I still miss him so much!

Maybe dropping off all of his things would be a 180 for me...but then it's pushing him more towards divorce and having NO attachment to me.

I just don't know what to do anymore in terms of our M. I know that there really is nothing that I can do, because I only have control over me, so I do need to focus on myself and making a better me.

I really just wish I could sit down and talk to him as a friend and say "what is really going on in that head of yours? Why do you really think that there is no hope for us? Why are you so willing to throw everything away? What was so bad and what are you looking for in your next marriage/relationship that you couldn't get from us?"

The worst thing about a pending divorce is not learning from the 1st marriage. I have tried really hard to do some soul searching and digging to see how I could have been different, what I could have done...

Not that I am a perfect wife or person, but the only thing I can come up with is to be more open with his family. I was VERY open with them in the beginning of our R, but then they became too involved in our married life. I guess boundaries should have been drawn and a better 'schedule' to see each other's families???

Other than that, I really don't know what I could have done differently. I have even tried to ask friends and family what they think from an outside perspective, but they have not come up with anything. I feel as if I need part of this answer from my H...And he even wrote in a letter that he gave to his psychologist "I have a great wife...near perfect...I just don't have feelings for her anymore."

While married, I set goals for myself, achieved them, and moved onto the next one. I was happy with my life and happy with my H. Yes, this past year was difficult because he broke my trust, but I still tried to be happy and push through it. I had friends outside of our M and hobbies. I visited family when he was at work (worked nights and weekends). I did most of my schoolwork on the nights he worked, so that the days he was home we could hang out (he complained once that I did too much work when he was home.) I did all the cleaning in the house and occasionally helped him with yard work. I took care of all the bills. We went out to dinner and on vacations and hung out with friends and family. We had a good sex life.

I thought we had a balanced life and marriage. I thought what I was giving him was what every H would want. It turns out that it wasn't and that truly does scare me for the future.
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

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#2249465 - 05/29/12 05:41 PM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: hopingandpraying]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
HopingAndPraying,

If love were a science then you would have hit it out of the park. Unfortunately, people are so much more complicated and sometimes there's just nothing you can do.

Of the books I've read, catering to your spouse too much can create real problems for them. Among those problems are that if you are "too good" your spouse will feel inadequate by comparison, like they can't measure up, and then they feel badly about themselves. They can also feel trapped if they feel they are your only social outlet. Finally, if you're not out there interacting with others, there is less danger and risk and it's easier for them to take you for granted. Not that you should play jealousy games, but more to establish and maintain the fact that you're an independent person with a life separate from your role in your marriage.

One book to check out would be "The Passion Trap" -- see if any of it resonates with you.

From what you've said, H has a bunch of his own issues that really don't have anything to do with you. I'm sure the deployments put a strain on your marriage. He also has a trend of "ejecting" when things are starting to get too intense or too real for him. That has nothing to do with you -- that's his issue. Finally, he violated your trust, and you both spent a difficult year recovering from that.

You're looking at yourself now saying "what did I do wrong?" and "What could I have done differently to prevent this?" Part of DB is to examine who you are, own your shortcomings, and 180 the parts of you that lead to relationship problems. This is done, however, to provide YOU with greater happiness going forward, and to demonstrate to your WAS that their impression of you may not be correct.

The point is NOT to look back over the course of your marriage and pick it apart from the perspective of what you did wrong. It very well may be the case that you did NOTHING wrong, and that there's NOTHING you could have done to prevent what happened. We're human, we make mistakes, we hurt each other. Part of marriage lies in working through that together and understanding that times are sometimes tough for both of you. You can't hold yourself to an impossibly high standard, because you were only half of the relationship.

Rather than saying "what did I do wrong?" a better question to ask is "What am I going to do right in my next relationship? Either with H or with someone else? What have I learned about myself, and about marriage in general that will give me a much better prospect for success in the future?"

Answering the first question is demoralizing. Answering the second one is empowering.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2249960 - 05/31/12 12:10 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: Accuray]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thanks, Accuray!

Yes, I have looked into the book "The Passion Trap" and have begun reading it. I do see both of us in different up and down positions. I honestly do not feel that I did not have a life outside of my H because I did. I went out, joined committees at work, and went to school at night to earn my Masters.

I guess the hardest part that I'm having is...if he thought it was so bad, why he did not communicate anything with me until he dropped the bomb and then I feel as if it was too late.

A part of me thinks that if I had someone I was interested in or was interested in me that things would be a little easier (I know...validation right?!?) BUt, I know it would not be that much easier because I'm still attached to my H.

Yes, I have been dark for almost two months now...except for signing papers the other day that needed to be signed, but I am still not emotionally detached from him in the sense that I still miss him and think about him often.

ANswering your last few questions are very hard..haha! I do know that I need to be more forgiving, but I really am not sure what I would do differently. I guess not be 'so available' for my SO.

IN R, I understand that the R goes through different phases of love, my H did not. That is one thing that he complains about...that we did not have this romantic love anymore (well at least not all the time). I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!

I'm just getting the summer blues maybe...I have summers off, so I know I'll have more free time to GAL and I'm not sure what I am going to do with it all since not everyone has summers off. I was really looking forward to spending my first summer off with my H and doing things on his days off and even our summer vacation that we started planning!!!

Now, I'll have to plan more GAL activities that obviously do not involve him.

I did just talk to a friend in which her H hung out with my H and he mentioned that we saw each other this past Saturday and my H said he was surprised that we were cordial to each other and that we were acting so normal! I just wish that was the magic potion that would change his mind..haha!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
#2250005 - 05/31/12 02:30 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: hopingandpraying]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I guess the hardest part that I'm having is...if he thought it was so bad, why he did not communicate anything with me until he dropped the bomb and then I feel as if it was too late.


I can shed some light on that, as one who has been having WAS thoughts himself. The reason that the WAS does not tip their hand is fear. Telling you that they are unhappy with the marriage feels like stepping off a cliff from the other side, because your response could easily be "I'm not either -- bye!" and that's a scary prospect. As a result, it's much safer for the WAS to work everything out FIRST, and then drop the bomb, they cushion their landing, such that if you have the worst possible response, they're still going to be okay and have somewhere to land. That's why a few websites advocate a policy of "brutal honesty" in your marriage, because if you deal with dissatisfaction as it happens in the moment, then you'll see the trend and won't be surprised if the train is off the track.

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
Yes, I have been dark for almost two months now...except for signing papers the other day that needed to be signed, but I am still not emotionally detached from him in the sense that I still miss him and think about him often.


There's nothing wrong with that, and you're doing great! Honestly your ability to execute the LRT is amazing, you are among the best!

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!


No, it's not, it's supposed to be work, but the work is supposed to yield a payoff where you both get your needs met. He knows that, to claim otherwise is just an excuse.

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
I just wish that was the magic potion that would change his mind..haha!


He noticed! You're laying on the best magic potion you can, keep it up!

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2250048 - 05/31/12 08:12 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Accuray


I can shed some light on that, as one who has been having WAS thoughts himself.


Accuray, are you thinking about leaving your W???
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2250052 - 05/31/12 11:00 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: hopingandpraying]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
...After all my GAL activities this weekend, now I'm home and feeling sad. I hate this roller coaster ride! At times, I really do want to just drop all of his things off at his new apartment and be like "here you go, it's done!"

Not that it would make me completely detach from him, but then I would in a way know I tried everything. I have been pretty much dark (except for seeing him Saturday for refi papers that was necessary) for 6 1/2 weeks and it has not done anything for our M. It has made me GAL and hang out with more people but at the end of the day, I don't feel that much better, because I still miss him so much!

Maybe dropping off all of his things would be a 180 for me...but then it's pushing him more towards divorce and having NO attachment to me.

I just don't know what to do anymore in terms of our M. I know that there really is nothing that I can do, because I only have control over me, so I do need to focus on myself and making a better me. ...

The worst thing about a pending divorce is not learning from the 1st marriage. I have tried really hard to do some soul searching and digging to see how I could have been different, what I could have done...

While married, I set goals for myself, achieved them, and moved onto the next one. I was happy with my life and happy with my H. Yes, this past year was difficult because he broke my trust, but I still tried to be happy and push through it. I had friends outside of our M and hobbies. ... I did all the cleaning in the house and occasionally helped him with yard work. I took care of all the bills. We went out to dinner and on vacations and hung out with friends and family. We had a good sex life.

I thought we had a balanced life and marriage. I thought what I was giving him was what every H would want. It turns out that it wasn't and that truly does scare me for the future.


Oh HP I feel the same way, I felt like I pretty much could have said all of these things that you said! (( ))

Originally Posted By: hopingandpraying
...
IN R, I understand that the R goes through different phases of love, my H did not. That is one thing that he complains about...that we did not have this romantic love anymore (well at least not all the time). I mean, we were together, for 8 years...it's not supposed to be sunshine and roses all the time right?!?!


I've had this exact same conversation frown

Let me know if you find that magic potion, I'd like to buy a bottle!

Anyway I think you are doing good, as Accuray noted. Dark is hard but he is noticing and verbalizing it to someone else. Stay strong. (( ))

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#2250982 - 06/04/12 02:08 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: vera be fierce]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thank you for all of your loving/supportive comments! smile

I had a great weekend GAL!!! I kept myself very busy and met up with an old high school friend. I went to the city for a fest and met a lot of new people. I really had a good time dancing and hanging out. I have the best friends a girl could ask for!!

I also met some guys...it is nice getting the attention from guys! However, I still have this mental block because it is not my H. I exchanged numbers with this guy I met and he wants to meet up this week.

I want to because I do want to make new friends and keep myself busy, but I have just a hard time with guys because I feel wrong doing it....even though it seems as if my H has completely moved on.

I just don't know what to do...I am still divided between dropping off all of his things and giving up on our M and keeping strong to DB and giving him his space to think things through and let his affair run its course?!?!

Goals for this week:
*Work out 2x (this is harder than it seems..haha)
*Cut out dessert two days
*Cut out a day of Starbucks (this is soooo hard!!!)

I hope everyone had a great weekend!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
#2250987 - 06/04/12 02:16 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: hopingandpraying]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
HP I think only you will know when you're ready to stop standing for your M and move on. You are not too far in the process compared to some other folks. If it feels wrong for you to be doing things with other guys, give yourself some time. Like we were discussing on Crimson's thread - if you have to ask if you're ready, you're probably not ready.

I don't know what it is with us on here with spouses under 35, it's like the younger the are, the faster they are trying to run away. I know how hard it is to feel like H has just completely moved on.

Glad you had a great weekend. Your goals for this week look great!

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#2251250 - 06/05/12 01:10 AM Re: Optimistic...not hopeless! :) [Re: vera be fierce]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 283
Thanks Verab! I know that I'm the only one who will know when it's truly time to move on. I know I'm not there yet, but I really I am afraid for that to come, because it will be the end of something that I thought was great and I'm not ready to give up completely on us.

It feels good at times to hang out with other guys...to know that I am still lovable. I guess you do lose a little of yourself and self-esteem through all of this, even though I know in MY heart that I am an awesome catch and only a fool would leave me.

I did make plans with one of the guys I met this weekend. We will see how that goes...no expectations, just someone to enjoy spending time with...just dinner.

I did hear that my H has taken up fishing lately...lots of time for him to do some thinking?!?! Who knows?!?! He has always said he wanted to do more fishing, but for some reason he just never did. I always encouraged him to do so, because we did have opposite schedules and he had the time to do it. I don't understand why he all of a sudden started now...weird!

As for me, I am going to continue GAL and moving forward without my H. I did join a volleyball league and it starts this Friday...I'm excited about that!! It's another chance to meet new people. If H does return, I'm sure he'll be surprised by how much I have been doing because his last email (4 weeks ago) stated "I hope you're doing as good as you can with all of this."

I actually think I'm doing better than he even thinks...maybe even better than him! Who knows though?!?!

He had stated that he may come move his things out today or tomorrow a week ago, but never confirmed it, so he's pushing it back some more???

Off to take the dog for a walk..I hope everyone has a great night!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
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