Just call me Dakota...

[labug]

Jack, this thing called separation, that I would never have invited into my life, has been one of the greatest gifts I have ever received.

I live most of it, I'm wobbly on parts but I still have toddler legs at 14 mos.

[heartbrokeinsd]

bug-

so here goes.. i am going to answer your questions to the best of my ability. honestly. honesty is all i have.

as far as my positions i thought i was clear. if i could have done it differently, im all ears. i am not going to say it anymore to her. i probably will here. who knows. i believe she has heard me and a dead horse comes to mind. what she does with it is up to her.

as for getting worked up. i have been getting less and less mad. my anger is dwindling. there is still hurt there, but i am learning to cope. her power over me is going away. i am going to deal with conflict in order to achieve serenity. i really like that saying. i know i cant change her. i am coming to terms with that.

about the doormat thing. that is 100% all me. it is how i feel. this is where STFU comes into play. i have a problem saying how i think people are treating me. usually to them. it is not healthy to anyone. it needs to stop. i needed to stand up to her. i might have made a bad choice in how to do it. i dont think so. i am good with it.

boundries. such a foreign concept to me. i have never felt like i needed to protect my feelings. i didnt have any. i drank myself numb to get away from the disgust i had for myself. it is hard for people to hurt you when you do it to yourself the worst. i grew to like the pain, because i knew it so well. i isolated myself to the point i neglected my family. i have been a scared little boy in a mans body. not exactly attractive. i need to enforce my boundries. i do not have a consequence. i see that. no wonder it irritates me. im covered in pi$$. walking away could be a good start. when i act like a man that is worthy of respect, i will get it.

48 hr rule is good for me. it will help me sort out the confusion and see if i really hurt as bad as i do in the moment. i speak without thinking alot. it is out of fear and anger. i really have nothing to be afraid of. i am strong. i am kind. i am a good father. that will count for something.

i want to do this. i can do this. people tell me i should just give up and move on. i deserve better. blah blah blah. when i ask them what kind of man i would be if i gave up on my family, i never really get an answer. i have forgiveness in my heart. i have love. i want to trust my W. i have to choose to. i know she is not evil. she is a good mom and has been a great W. i didnt uphold my end, and now i am mad. mad at myself for letting it get to this place. that blame rests on me. it does not excuse her actions as of late. it also should not take away from her good qualities. those are what i love about her. if i prove to her that she is important, and i will do everything in my power to not let myself get back to where i was, i have a chance.

[labug]

people tell me i should just give up and move on. i deserve better.

Move on from your self? Because this stuff is mostly about you. Moving on will only mean you're in a different place with the same crummy, tired, old baggage.

It took me a while to understand the saying "No matter where you go, there you are."

Think about how you would state this boundary that I think you were trying to do with your wife. Think it through to the end point.

W, I feel ___________ when you are seeing OM. If you continue to see him I will___________________.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't-just be aware.

Get used to thinking about the consequences of your actions, not just what's going to make you feel better in the moment. Those actions usually keep you paying for a long time. Kinda like RentACenter.

Do you know the music of Keb Mo? If you don't, you should.

Google The Whole Enchilada by Keb.

[heartbrokeinsd]

bug-

i do get that..no matter where i go, there i am. i am trying so hard to release my baggage and i believe i am doing a good job. i am going to continue this work.

i have tried to state this boundry in a way that i would hope she understands. so far i dont believe it has mattered. her behaviors have not changed. i would not have such a problem if she would tell me the truth. if she is dating, fine. just be honest. i see no point in lying. saying she isnt talking to them when she is..what is the point of that? i would love for her to respect my wishes. or boundry. i know that seems controlling. it is not intended that way. i know i say that i will forgive my W. i really want to, and to an extent have. there is this part of me that doesnt want to be in this position. i know i hurt her and wasnt there emotionally for her. i didnt know how to be. i am learning how. the part that hurts is she is doing these thingss with other me. i will never understand it, and have pretty much stopped trying.

this is what i want to say:

W, i feel hurt, angry, and betrayed when you do these things with OM (plural at this point). if you continue to do this i will file for divorce and move on. i refuse to be treated this way and i refuse to put my family in this situation.

now thats what i want to say. say it? probably not. it would ruin any chance at R. i am lost as how to handle it. so far nothing i have done has helped.

[labug]

Depends on how you define "helped" I guess.

Maybe you need smaller goals, like

1)being able to have sustained interaction with wife without someone going off or calling the cops.

2)pleasant respectful child hand-offs (hate that word in this context. Is there a better one?)

3)finding someone else to cut the grass

Suggestions only, I don't know what your goals are other than reconciliation and that's way to broad for where you are now.

[Brit45]

I'm really happy about the way you brought up your thoughts/concerns about your FIL. If you have been passive in this area in the past I'm really happy you're speaking up

Move on from your self?

I think you need to move on...TO YOURSELF.

On my thread I talked about the crystal ball because I don't like the thinking about "am I waiting on him" and "how long should I wait" Finding someone new which is what our friends and family mean when they say moving on won't really change how you feel. It will help you not to think but won't solve. In the same way that other coping mechanisms help you not think but don't solve. That's why coming to the decision that I'm not thinking about an outcome and just focusing on me really helped me silence that in my head. I'm not ready to date. That's for sure. So "moving on" isn't an option for me.

There is a third choice in meeting someone new and trying to win her back and that choice is working on you.

The more you detach inside the better you'll feel. Trust me I feel like I've had some sort of rebirth. I don't know the future but I'm excited about it.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Dakota,

Hey man, just a few things.

W, i feel hurt, angry, and betrayed when you do these things with OM (plural at this point). if you continue to do this i will file for divorce and move on. i refuse to be treated this way and i refuse to put my family in this situation.

You understand that if you say this, you have to live up to it? The first time you lay downa boundary that you do not back up and you no longer have teeth.

I am all for boundaries, I believe they are absolutely needed in order for a real reconcilliation to occur.

However, I am only for boundaries when the LBS is capable of living up to the consequences they themselves impose upon the boundary.



Think of a child or a puppy...you tell them over and over again not do do X, or you will do Y. Well the keep doing X, and you might 'pretend' to do Y for a little while but stop doing it after a little while. To the point where they keep doing X, over and over and over again until one day...you really mean it.

Lets say Y = "I'm going to spank you."

(You know the parents in Wal MArt who...threaten the kids and the kids never actually shut up because the parents never actually spank them?)

It's kind of like that.

In the immortal words of MC Hammer:

Break it down:

i have tried to state this boundry in a way that i would hope she understands. so far i dont believe it has mattered. her behaviors have not changed. i would not have such a problem if she would tell me the truth. if she is dating, fine. just be honest. i see no point in lying. saying she isnt talking to them when she is..what is the point of that? i would love for her to respect my wishes. or boundry. i know that seems controlling. it is not intended that way. i know i say that i will forgive my W. i really want to, and to an extent have. there is this part of me that doesnt want to be in this position. i know i hurt her and wasnt there emotionally for her. i didnt know how to be. i am learning how. the part that hurts is she is doing these thingss with other me. i will never understand it, and have pretty much stopped trying.

Who ironically in the same song also said, "You can't touch this."

wait for it...

wait for it...

ehh? Maybe, sort of funny?

i have tried to state this boundry in a way that i would hope she understands. so far i dont believe it has mattered.

It hasn't. It...won't yet. Not likely.

i would not have such a problem if she would tell me the truth. if she is dating, fine. just be honest. i see no point in lying. saying she isnt talking to them when she is..what is the point of that?

They lie, it's almost perverse, not wanting you to be hurt almost as much as they don't want the hassle. (My take)
Simply put...she is going to lie if there is an affair. Knowing that a liar is going to lie and getting upset about it? I know she shouldn't be, but man...she is. That is what is what right now.

i would love for her to respect my wishes. or boundry.

I would love for a pony. Dakota, if you going to while away hoping for something...why not hope that you just wake up from a bad dream with this idea that you should be doing better?

i know that seems controlling. it is not intended that way. i know i say that i will forgive my W. i really want to, and to an extent have. there is this part of me that doesnt want to be in this position.

IF she would just follow your boundary, then everything would be better because she could focus on what's important to you right now. And that is working on your relationship...except these other guys are in the way, and as long as they are...

see below:

i know i hurt her and wasnt there emotionally for her. i didnt know how to be. i am learning how. the part that hurts is she is doing these thingss with other me. i will never understand it, and have pretty much stopped trying.

This ties to the comment above.

Now you are ready, and you're upset that she isn't snapping out of this and seeing these things in you.

When I say be consistent, it is so she can can see these changes and believe in you and trust you.

Funny that trust thing...you don't trust her...and you going to have a hard time believing that she doesn't trust you either. New changes in a person are not to be trusted, not without time under their belt.


This could very well be the price you currently pay for your failings earlier.


Try to read the following from the other side, her shoes, or hell as a WAH once...mine:

"I know you want time and space and that these other guys make you feel apprecitated and desired in a away I havent done in a long time if ever, and again I know you want that, or want time to figure it out, well I don't want that, and my wants are more important than yours, so stop it, or I won't be around."

except...I wasn't seeing a guy...not that there is anything wrong with that mind you. ; )


What some people don't know...is that I was also a WAS once too.

So I can see the pressure the LBS places upon them.

[heartbrokeinsd]

ok.. i am gonna do my best to write this down right. i know R is way out of the picture at the time. it would be great, but it isnt going to happen right now. here are my goals i wrote a few weeks ago:
my goals are:
-have my W invite me to do something with her.
-to stop obsessing over what she is doing
-to be in a good mood for a whole day
-to treat my kids like the gifts of god they are
-ignore the baiting comments my W makes
-set healthy boundries and stick to them
-continue my workouts
-reach out to more people/ make friends
-try something new (highland games)
-remember how to play guitar
-be in a good mood tomorrow with my W
-get my W to laugh or smile

i have gotten some feedback on some of them being to much about my W and what she does. i am not worrying about them. some of them i have made progress on. others not so much.

focusing on me. that is a whole new arena for me. i have been working on that for months because of aa. i have made huge strides in that department. things between me and my W sneak up and kick me in the balls. i am getting better at picking myself up and moving forward. i have bad days and good days. i know my W has noticed a difference in me. she told me on wednesday, "i dont know who you are anymore. at least when you were drinking i knew what to expect..absolutely nothing. you are different." i told her that right now i am focusing on being the best dad i can be. the best person i can be. right now i am liking where that is headed.

now on to the boundry. i have no consequence for her crossing them. not that it is my place to dole out punishment. i have not told her i am going to D her. that is the last thing i want. this is where i really struggle. any help here is great. in the words of bug, i am pi$$ing all over myself. =)

now the hoping thing. i am not hoping for it to get better. yes i would like it, and i think it all depends on me. its not fair but neither is life. i am finding stength to continue everyday. strength i never knew i had. jack you have helped me alot on that.

it probably is the price i have to pay. i did fail her and i deserve alot of this. the mistrust, anger, etc.. i do see it from her point of view. i have no idea how to make it up to her. the only thing i have learned is, if i stay consistent in my behaviors, she might trust in my changes. maybe not. i am finding it harder to care, each and everyday. if she doesnt want to see that i am becoming someone great, fine. my kids and i will still benefit from it.

alot of my anger comes from seeing her disrespect herself. she is fooling around with a married co-worker and a kid who has a GF that she is supposed to be tutoring. i do not like seeing her devalue herself, and be just another notch on the bedpost so to speak. i dont like seeing the hurt on her face. then i think, i should be angry at myself. i didnt treat her like the queen i believe she is. and i am mad at myself. more mad than she will ever be at me.

this is a tough road. i am very greatful for all who have took the time to help me. i know i seem like a moron sometimes. then again, i am learning. i am not giving up. that isnt in me.

[Brit45]

You aren't a moron or we wouldn't keep helping LOL!!!

The only thing I would say is don't worry about having a good or obsessing over her. I've found those things sneak up on me in a god way and lately I think I haven't thought about H for a few hours or I feel great right now. Whereas this morning I was like stop thinking about the time you went there with H or whether he and GF are doing this or that stop stop stop!

Good luck we're all here and what to see you happy and whole

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I don't think you're a moron.