Courage? I don't feel very courageous? About the drinks? No I think my fear is he'll bring her but it's a pretty crazy fear. The chances of him doing that are very very slim. I'm certainly not going to let my fear stop me from seeing them.
I read back over my very first thread and I came to a little bit of a conclusion. The pattern that's been happening is that he lets me in to be his friend and I get expectations and do something to scare him. I never hear from him on weekends because he's with her. We had started to build a very nice friendship with him sending me funny texts etc. What did I do? have expectations which led to the bomb being that much harder to take and act rash. I acted rash about him taking an item from the garage and I really acted rash during the bomb.
Regardless of his choices, I'm not doing a very good job of being consistent. He keeps saying he doesn't want to lead me on. So what happens he opens himself up to being my friend and I show him that I'm still in love with him.
I'm taking that off the table which should be pretty easy considering the fact that I think he has things to work on which he isn't doing currently. It's completely out of my hands right now. And I KNOW I do that he probably thinks we just need some space after my outburst. And he's maybe wondering if he can even be friends because of my smothering.
So I've recognized a pattern and a cheeseless tunnel.
I've had a great day. I am smiling more. I'm coming out of this withdrawal I was in. I just feel like I'm living more in my surroundings.
Journalling: Today I've been NC for 4 days. Today I managed to go to an appt across the street from H and make no contact. That was actually a bit tough but not nearly as crazy as I've felt in previous situations. Today I've felt calm, upbeat, optimistic, and generally don't feel as helpless or hopeless as I've felt in MONTHS.
I can say from personal experience that both your husbands loved you enough to put you (and your decisions) first. There were many times where I (mistakenly) yielded to her in order to keep the peace, or in some ways "spoil" her. I wanted her to have what she wanted, eat what she wanted, and do what she wanted to do.
In turn I got labeled as spineless, and rewarded with a WAW. Trust me I can really empathize with your husbands, and don't blame them for what they did. If theyre anything like me they were probably raised to unconditionally love someone, and did not receive unconditional love in return. So they acted out. Now they're seeking someone to do what they expected you to do.
I'd be there too had I not found this site and others.
gb, I appreciate your response. I remember the early days of you posting and it seems you've come a long way. My question is, did you know you were subjugating yourself when you yielded to her and still chose not to stand for yourself? Did what you were doing give you some unease?
My H's biggest complaints when he left were that I was controlling and everything had to be my way. So I don't think that fits with the statement about wanting to spoil me. I don't think it can go both ways, can it? Can it be unconditional love until...it's not?
Sorry if your W called you spineless, I've never felt that about my H, he just doesn't like conflict in his life. I actually always felt very protected and taken care of by him in a physical danger scenario. It's one of the things I miss the most.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
GB you are right on the money with your insight on him.
There isn't anything we can do about the past. We both have to move forward on trying to be better people in the future. You did that by finding this site reading books and learning to take charge. And finding that both you and your wife were happier when you did that.
Today marks 5 days of NC. I'm not sure why he's not contacting me he usually would have by now. I just think that last week was so emotional or whatever he's giving me space too.
I think I said previously that I've realized in the past few months he gives me friendship and I get expectations. Which is why he keeps saying he doesn't want to lead me on. I also felt really bad in a way when he said "I haven't been telling you about the relationship because I know it's hard for you" I don't want to be that person. He's in a R, I need to be an adult respect his decisions and his choices. I know ages ago I told him we shouldn't talk about other people in our lives and that he was giving me mixed messages, but I need to grow up. And be okay with this for him and for me.
Everytime I'm angry about him moving forward with this R, I'm putting myself in the victim role. I'm choosing hurt, anger, and resentment instead of detaching myself from his choices and his R. He's offering me his friendship which is more than a lot of men who are LBS's would offer if they were in his position. It's possibly more than I would offer if I were in his position. And all I'm doing is proving to him again and again if things aren't on my schedule and if things aren't going my way then I'm mean and angry blame him for being hurt.
This is where I wonder if going NC is the right thing. Because I worry that it shows him that I'm walking away again. I don't really know.
I feel stronger and more "at peace" with his relationship. Not that I'm ready to go to dinner with the two of them or double date in 6 months time. I'm just saying I've come to terms that he and I as a he and I are seriously 100% over. I don't own him. I have no claim on him right now. And I should be thankful that he wants me in life at all.
yes he gives in and gives in and then becomes angry and resentful when he doesn't get the results he wants. I think I came to this conclusion from that drama triangle. We fix and fix and then get resentful when we don't see the results we want.
This is where I wonder if going NC is the right thing. Because I worry that it shows him that I'm walking away again. I don't really know.
This was niggling in my brain.
It seems that you and I have been the pursuers in our Ms. NC is very scary for us because in our history, if we didn't turn the key in the engine, nothing happened.
So if I'm not turning the key, nothing will happen. This makes me nervous. Maybe if I just jiggle the key a little...
Maybe had I waited longer before, he would have come back. Who knows?
It is a scary place but he has the power to jump-start this if he chooses.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Labug Come to think of it she never labeled me spineless, but her actions implied she had nothing but contempt bred from a lack of respect.
I'm in a very physically demanding and physical profession, but she'd mentally out spar me all the time. There is an element I can remember of just going with the flow, and this always bugged me that she was so demanding that it was just easier to give in. I remember for a time that I'd know it was a left turn but she'd be adamant its a right, so I'd take the right knowing full well it was a right, and then blame it on her for getting us lost. It really felt easier to just get lost, I figured maybe this way she'd learn to trust me. No trust just anger for letting her make the wrong choice. So yeah I know what your husband means when he says you are demanding.
On the other hand I truly thought that by avoiding conflict and giving in I was being a good husband. That she'd see all the sacrifices I was making for her and be appreciative. Instead she was repelled by what she saw as indecisiveness.
It's hard for a nice guy to grasp how him "doing his best not to get into a fight" is seen as his future WAW as him not caring about her. I mean this is what goes through our heads:
"wait she thinks I don't love her because I'm trying to avoid a fight? What the heck is wrong with her, if I didn't love her I'd be constantly fighting with her, instead I give her what she wants!"
I'm sorry to say this but your husbands probably think you are the most ungrateful women in the world.
I mean I gave my wife EVERYTHING I could and she still got fed up with me. I'm not going to lie that still hurts. As I'm sure your husbands still hurt about it too.
I also blame society phrases like "you can be right, or stay married" or "the wife is always right" are ingrained into our culture now. I know a lot of young men who just resign themselves to abusive situations, because that's what they think marriage is.
I think the key here though is that I've given up on believing that you can love someone unconditionally and expect the same in return. Not that I think W is incapable of love, but more like my love now comes with conditions.
Conditions like respect, loyalty, affection, sex, patience. Any woman who is not willing to provide these bare minimums can just move on.
I figured that if I didn't demand those traits eventually I'd just get walked all over again. I also figured that if I just moved to another relationship I was bound to make the same mistake again. So rather than seek another woman to have the marriage I always wanted, I decided to stay with the one I'm with and love and build the marriage here and now.
Like I wrote on Navy guys thread at first it was a living hell standing up for myself, we had sooo many fights and close calls. Eventually though the tide started changing. Luckily we now have more good days than bad, and are in better shape than pre-bomb. We still have a long way to go, but I'm definitely a happier guy.
sorry i didnt respond earlier. for me to believe my W has changed there are a few things she would have to do.
1. ask me what i think and actually listen
2. when i make a decision, dont argue because it is not what she thinks
3. stop treating me like a 2nd class citizen.
4. believe me, not everyone else
5. stop the running away when life gets tough.
6. talk without attacking
7. stop flirting with other men or being "nice".
8. do something i want to do without complaining.
9. trust my judgement. i really am not a moron.
10. show me that she loves me and believes in me. tell me that i matter to her.
i am not your H, but you sound alot like my W at times. that is not a dig. i wish she would be doing half the work you are. have you ever asked how he felt about things and really listened without defending or attacking. sharing feelings is the last thing most men want to do. it makes me feel weak. to get attacked when i am already feeling weak get the fighting instinct in me to come out. it is sad and i need to work on that, but that is how i feel. just some thoughts, maybe not what you were looking for. if not let me know. i will try again
I figured that if I didn't demand those traits eventually I'd just get walked all over again. I also figured that if I just moved to another relationship I was bound to make the same mistake again. So rather than seek another woman to have the marriage I always wanted, I decided to stay with the one I'm with and love and build the marriage here and now.
Wish he'd done that.
Well NC was broken right after I posted.....by him. He texted and asked if I'd heard anything from the Doc. I gave him the latest and asked how he was. "Oh I'm fine. Just wanted to see if you knew anything yet. Shame they can't seem to nail it down" I replied and agreed it was annoying and told him a very short funny event I saw happen today. No reply.
I miss that friendship we were starting to develop pre bomb (even if it was clouded with my expectations) I realized that he wasn't sharing anything about his life possibly because the last time he did he was met with the mayor of crazytown. I just kept thinking you can't talk yourself out of a situation you acted your way into. If I want him to be my friend and see that I won't act crazy about his choices then I just have to show him that.
Bug, I totally agree about the we were the person to pursue to start the car to drive it around haha. And I don't know if I want the man who at the very least say hey I want you back. I do however think that in our positions they rebuild that trust with us and I worry that NC means I am walking. I dunno. I'm staying the course.
