I haven't got time for the pain

[tested metal]

Thanks Snodd,

That thought has also crossed my mind (about STBXW trying to get into bed).

But over the last 9 months that we have been apart I have had a great while to think about what my position is regarding IF she wanted to reconcile.

Basically, we would have to start all over again.

1. That means no living together until leases are up (at least 1 yr.)

2. During that 1 year, I would accept dating exclusively only. This would give us a chance to reconnect.

3. Counseling would most likely be a must, for her individually and us as a couple. (not ruling out individual for me either).

4. All former flings must have ABSOLUTELY no contact with, including Facebook. Any hints of this and it is donesville for me.

5. She would have to agree to "trust with verification" and be understanding with it.

6. All issues regarding the A and previous issues leading to it would have to be discussed and resolved as much as they possibly could be resolved.

7. We would not live together until she/we have shown that there is a full committment to being faithful and to each other, to a reasonable degree. (Can't control everything but not bringing her back in just to leave again and further damage D1 and myself)

8. She would have to learn to fix her own messes.

9. She would have to aquire an internal locus of control as evidenced by the extinction of the phrase for example: "My baby is my life."

Those are just some of the things I have come up with. They may sound strict, but I am determined not to make the same mistake again with being too passive.

These are the things that it takes to have a relationship with me. It is not meant to control her, as she has a choice of with whom she wants to have a relationship.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Tested,

This is going to sound..wierd, maybe.

As I agree with these, I absolutely do...

and so saying...how badly do you want her to fail or how badly do you want to move on?

I agree with these terms, boundaries, ultimatiums even. But I wonder if these aren't the rules she dashes herself upon so you can move forward.

[tested metal]

Posting a lot today.

I know why I feel like I am being wishy washy on whether or not to let STBXW twist in the wind or not. It still comes down to is it MLC or not for me.

If it is MLC, then I chance her cake eating; I get hurt (if I have expectations, which I don't at this point); and she keeps hiding in the tunnel.

If it isn't MLC and is just a WAW, then I have missed a crucial point of showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her.

Either way I think that I am being a person only a fool would leave. I just need to get over the fact that I could be getting used and that would be her issue and only makes me a better person for still giving her an opportunity to earn a little trust after all that has happened.

It is also a chance to show my OWN changes and practice my OWN boundaries.

A good friend once told me that the way to true grace is through humiliation. I need to do this for myself, not just for her.

[TSquared2]

If it is MLC, then I chance her cake eating; I get hurt (if I have expectations, which I don't at this point); and she keeps hiding in the tunnel.

If it isn't MLC and is just a WAW, then I have missed a crucial point of showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her.

TM, I don't see a difference here really...MLC or not, "showing compassion and a chance to say that I have truely done all I think I could do for her." ... guarantees that YOU have taken the higher road...

Just my opinion, YMMV...

T^2

[tested metal]

Jack,

I know what you are saying. I don't want her to fail, but I also don't want her to give me a half a$$ed effort, if this is something she wants.

Studies have shown that high expectations are healthy for marriages and that they are also one of the key factors to a healthy marriage (Gottman).

That being said, I don't think my expectations for a relationship with me is too high.

I expect be trusted and have someone that is trustworthy.

I expect monogamy.

Although we all need help at times, I expect that my partner would be able to solve some of their own problems and be moderately centered.

I am not asking for perfection. I am asking for someone who wants to be in a relationship with me to respect me as I would respect them.

I am not perfect, Lord knows, but I think in order for a relationship to blossom, she has things to prove and we both have to grow.

She dug the hole, and I am giving her opportunities to climb out, but am not going to do the work for her. That is more than most would do.

Like I said these expecations would be if she wanted to resume the marriage.

The past marriage did not work, due also to my passiveness, and I refuse to make the same mistakes again (as much as I am able).

You raise a very valid point though and I have and still do question if I am setting her up to fail. Maybe later I will be a little wiser and decide that the rules are not needed for me. But this is where I am right now, in this moment. I continue to work on me as that is all I can do.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Oh no...rules are needed. Boundaries ARE needed.

hard to explain, I don't really know you and I do not want to come across as thinking I know everything or hell man even upsetting you.

I see those boundaries and I agree with them...

But they feel... different; they feel brittle and sharp.

The past marriage did not work, due also to my passiveness, and I refuse to make the same mistakes again (as much as I am able).

It is possilbe to go too far in the other direction as well.


My job as far as I am concerned is to make you think, not tell you what to do. If this is not a concern on your part...then I'm dead wrong right? Not the first time either.

Just my feeling I got from reading your list...a list which I again agree with...which makes this concern seem weird..

[Jack_Three_Beans]

When my wife decided to come back? I held her to task, she also had to prove it to me, I knew there were going to be stumbling points. I couldn't be inflexible on every issue I had.

I am not saying it was ok for her to keep sleeping with OM or even call him, but I understood that he would call her, and she would have no control over that. Even after she told him not too. In those cases? Getting upset at her for that...that was my bad.

[seeking answers]

TM,

In your talk with your W last night did she give you any indication that she wanted to try and reconcile? Or is this just a desperate woman who messed up and needs a place to stay for a bit?

All I'm saying is, don't get ahead of yourself with rules, regulations and expectations until you figure out what her intentions are. I would have another set of boundaries if she's just staying short term, like paying her own way.

From what you write of her actions it sounds like she is trying to manipulate you into letting her crash for a while. I'm not saying that it's wrong to want to help her out, but red flags go up when she is kissing and flirting with you now when she needs something from you.

How did she treat you while you were together when she wanted something? Was she manipulative then?

You've come so far. Just protect your heart, You're a stronger, wiser man, now. I know you'll figure this out and do what's best for you and your D.

Good luck!

[tested metal]

Thanks for the posts Jack and SA!

First, I am not angry or offended and I am sorry if my post came out that way. It really has made me think.

Jack- I know what you are saying about the rules being rigid and I would expect some stumbling, I am talking about the "finished product", if their is such a thing. I also reserve the right to change my mind as circumstances arise, but for the most part I am trying to create core boundaries and rules for myself as to what I will accept and what I won't.
This is still a rough draft and work in progress.

I did think about it this morning and it came to me that right now I don't think I love the woman W is right now. I love who she used to be and the glimpses of old W that come through. As for "the rules", I realized that I need to accept and love W for who she is, not for what I want her to be or who she was.

That is hard to do due to the hurt and pain caused and lack of trust. I am willing to give it my best, all out effort, but alas it takes 2 to tango. Maybe that is me loving her. I don't know as I am again left confused.

SA- She probably is desperate and I am very sensitive and aware of possible manipulation at this point. WAW or MLC I guess it doesn't matter, I think that we both still need to figure ourselves out before going further in the relationship. Not a move back, but kinda sideways in the short view, but in the long view it is moving forward.

I am very removed at this point emotionally from W's actions as I really don't feel all that attracted to her at this point, flirting and all.

I am thinking that she really wants to be friends and wants forgivness without asking for it (not that she has to, because I have already forgiven her for the most part.. still working on it). I think she wants the relationship we had, but not to be married and I can't do that. So I will inquire about it the next time she tries to kiss me again. I don't want to poke the feral cat, but hey, this needs to be addressed.

As for when we were together, when she wanted something she would ask, beg, and plead, pretty much badger me like a 5 yr. old until I gave in. Sometimes she would use emotional blackmail with "If you really loved me you would...", which now with her UGLY side has turned into the guilt ripping "You're trying to take my D away!!!" and "You are F'ing with my life!!!"

I am not seeing this ugly side anymore, which makes me curious to what is going to come my way in the near future.

Last night, STBXW called me regarding my decision and I agreed that she is welcome to stay provided she agreed to the requests provided. She agreed and said that she expected as much regarding rent, utilities, and boundaries regarding having friends over.

She then asked me to have dinner with her and D1. I told her I had plans and she asked if I would cancel them. I then backslid and said I would go to dinner with the two, but I was paying my own way.

We had a nice dinner. D1 had a temper tantrum basically the whole time and the whole resturant pretty much laugh at it. D1 is such a drama queen. When we left STBXW stopped with D1 and I said goodbye to both of them and kissed D1 on the cheek and it looked like STBXW expected a kiss too. I did not oblige and wished her a good night.

She text me later that night with "Is nice to have a friendly relationship with you again." I did not respond.

This morning at 7 am, she calls because D1 grabbed her phone and said "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy!" So I talked to D1 who kept saying "Hi Daddy!"

Anyway, I expect nothing at this point from her regarding the R and I am keeping my nose to myself and my own growth. It seems like I just see her different behavior and wonder why. I guess time will tell.

[AJM]

Time will tell. Lots of time.


AJ