In-Home Separation, One Year Point

[adinva]

Hi Cat04, thanks for all the very good questions. Thanks Accuray and Say, for stopping by and saying nice things!

Cat04, my first reaction to all your questions and most others, is why you're wrong about this or that detail. One of my 180s has been to listen more and answer less, and I practice it when I get a chance, and notice when I do it. So, thanks for the practice!

I have a quiet kind of joy and a mellow kind of fun. You're not often going to find me out raising he!! in a bar, and I'm not usually the most exuberant in a crowd. I'm more of a one on one kind of person. I found it scary getting out last weekend to meet new friends (new? I've known them going on a year now) unbeknownst to my H. Based on his job I have need to be paranoid for his and my kids' safety. So, scary. But fun and exciting, and energizing, and great to catch up live and in person with my buddies. I've also had some wonderful trips to visit other friends in PA and VA, and am enjoying giving myself a break from my responsibilities to do that. Joy to me is chatting across a fire, and I do that as much as possible. Even have one of my own on the patio. Joy to me is hearing the birds on a walk, watching the sun set and being out in nature. I'm doing that as much as possible.

Why don't I cry? I'm holding it together because we made a mutual decision not to involve our kids in this yet. Since I'm the major caretaker, I'm not crying most of the time. But I did begin to let some of it out on my walk today, and since it's dark out here on the porch I'm letting the tears fall now too. When I'm out with friends I'm not crying because I want to have fun and be happy, and I am. Something about my T's office gets me crying most weeks, by the end of the session. So I will recognize the truth in what you say and not feel bad about feeling sad sometimes. Just, most of the time really I don't feel sad.

Also, I am in denial. I really can't imagine that my H is going to divorce me, even though he says he is. It won't seem real until it happens. I ask you, what's the harm in enjoying the current moments, which are good, when what's around the corner is still around the corner?

Do you really think all things in a relationship need to be shared? Do we both need to scrub each toilet? Do we both need to cook dinner? It sounds facetious, but as two working parents of two kids, we divided things up. Different couples do things differently, but we divided along our strong points. I did most of the childcare, he did more of the wage-earning, I did/do 99% of the cooking and washing up, he does the laundry. He does the car maintenance and yard work. I'm in charge of any gardens or decoration, as well as holiday decorations. He does the investing and money management and pays the bills, I do the doctor's appointments and education. To us that makes sense, and to my closest friends it has been that way - my parents too. If I have a scrap of time left at the end of the day, I don't want to spend it worrying about investments. It's a necessary evil, like scrubbing toilets, which I have been happy to avoid so far but will face out of necessity. But I do like how you reframe it as taking care of myself; I'll adopt that attitude. I did recently get my car inspected and oil changed while H was out of town and it was OK - I got a nice 3-mile walk in drop-off and pick-up. I guess I'm just wondering if this division-of-labor instead of sharing of responsibility-sharing is part of how we lost our connection. There are other things I thought were fundamental truths about relationships that I was wrong about; wonder if this is another.

Why I want to be someone to 'come back to' - my H raised legitimate gripes about me at the beginning of this, and claimed that they were among the reasons he was walking away. Since he's walking away not just from me but also from his two boys, I feel it's essential to do everything in my power to make it possible for him to change his mind about this. I want him to come back, very much. If he does not, well, I'll be the better for having improved myself.

[adinva]

I had to cut that short and get out of db because my boys swooped in and asked for dinner.

Cat04, I'm trying to figure out what you're looking for from me.

I'm well aware that I'm not doing well. I'm sub-par at work, at home, a little distracted with the kids, comforting myself in lots of ways. I could have an emotional breakdown but it would hurt a lot of other people as well as myself and would definitely not move me toward repairing my relationship, so I will not. I will be as strong as I need to be, as stoic as is necessary. At the same time, I'm learning to use resources to help and I'm learning to be vulnerable and to feel emotions I used to bury. I am doing a lot for myself but I have no choice but to be there for my kids and my job. I have to, and I have to enjoy it, and I do. But I also see no alternative that is acceptable to me.

So, I did have a bit of a cry and I did explore my feelings about the fact that H left at 7:30 tonight saying "I'm going over to [friend's] for dinner, and I'll probably stay the night, so I'll be home in the morning before work." I said "ok!" but later let myself feel rejected, sorry for my kids, resentful of h. In a normal time I would have had no problem with that, but two nights in a row and given our situation, I guess he's working up toward physical separation, which will mean telling the kids, which will mean seeing them cry over their dad leaving, which will hurt.

[adinva]

You asked what makes me tick, what makes me happy. What am I doing just for me?

Well...

I read, all the time - it's one of my passions. Anything I can get my hands on. I read online, on my iphone, and books and books. I have two books going on now.

I love learning things, especially funky eclectic things - I love NPR and This American Life, and science, astronomy, interesting new music.

I love animals - I have more pets than I probably should but significantly fewer than after the bomb. I help out with animal rescue because it makes me feel good.

I love being outside, and spend time outside every day. I'm planning a three day backpacking trip with my best friend, and will be able to have my H to rely on to take care of the kids, dogs, and house so that I can do this. I've camped and hiked with H and the kids since they were small, and have since the bomb too, and have loved it. Not the last time but the most memorable time that I felt completely alive and filled with joy and excitement, was post-bomb, when we camped out and got caught in a major t-storm on top of a mountain hike we'd gone on - the trail turned to a river and we had to race back down in ankle deep rushing water and I helped S12 keep his morale up and it was funny because what else could it be, and we made it back, the rain stopped, and we had chili and wine and cornbread, drove an hour to use a laundromat, and it was wonderful.

I love-love-love being a mom. I love to hear my S14 and his friends around the kitchen table. I love to have them sleep over and bake muffins in the morning. I love teaching them things and learning from them. They are so cute and cool and amazing and unique.

I'm a mix of lots of extremes. I'm shy and outgoing, confident and self-conscious, intelligent and spacy, happy and sad. All depending on what I'm thinking about at the moment. I've learned to control my emotions and thoughts almost to the point where I don't even know what they are, but I'm learning to undo that. I'm seeing a counselor for the first time as an adult, and it's taking me to the next level of capability and effectiveness, and helping me be ok with what's happening in my life.

Hopefully that's enough of what I am and what makes me tick. Those are the things that came to mind, so I guess those are the things most important to me.

[2thepoint]

"Joy to me is chatting across a fire, and I do that as much as possible. Even have one of my own on the patio. Joy to me is hearing the birds on a walk, watching the sun set and being out in nature. I'm doing that as much as possible."

Me too, AD! ^^^^^ Love this!!!

I have just one thing to say to you right now. Don't clean the toilets. You do enough already. Get the Tidy Bowl Man to do it if you have to.

[adinva]

Oh thanks 2TP! Glad you like things I like!

Don't worry, I'm transitioning from housecleaners to sons cleaning toilets - I don't feel a need to share that one.

I think I must learn to stop venting about how much I do...I'm not trying to be a martyr, and I hope I don't sound like one. I spend plenty of time putting off stuff I should be doing.

[2thepoint]

I think I must learn to stop venting about how much I do...I'm not trying to be a martyr, and I hope I don't sound like one. I spend plenty of time putting off stuff I should be doing.

I don't think that at all. I do think you take on too much and I have been saying so for months. Set aside AD time as much as possible. You're worth it!

[adinva]

thanks

[cat04]

Cat04, my first reaction to all your questions and most others, is why you're wrong about this or that detail.

This doesn't really surprise me.

I could very well be wrong. It has been known to happen. While I tend to be very intuned to people, I am not always correct in what I observe.

Funny, I believe very much the details matter, but fundamentally, they don't always...

Why don't I cry? I'm holding it together because we made a mutual decision not to involve our kids in this yet.

By no means would I advocate falling apart in front of your kids if you can help it. You need to be their rock through this. However, they also need to know that you are human and feelings are ok to be expressed sometimes.

Just, most of the time really I don't feel sad.

It may not be at the surface, however, it comes across in your calm demeanor. To me anyway.

Also, I am in denial. I really can't imagine that my H is going to divorce me, even though he says he is. It won't seem real until it happens. I ask you, what's the harm in enjoying the current moments, which are good, when what's around the corner is still around the corner?

I see this. The denial.

There is no harm in enjoying the current moments, however, you seem to be hanging onto the old marriage still, which, D or not, is dead.

There are two parts to D. An emotional divorce and the legal divorce. The emotional divorce is what you are living now and what you are fighting.

Do you really think all things in a relationship need to be shared?

In every relationship there is a sort of division of labor I suppose. Sort of a divide and conquer mentality that allows things to be accomplished more efficiently.

That being said, yes I do think all things should be shared.

In my M, well, it was similar to yours. He was the primary bread winner, and I was the primary caretaker, although I worked as well. I did the housework, the cooking, managed the maintenence of houses and vehicles, raised our son, and all of the other domestic things you can imagine. And my X was very unaware of what it took to make those things happen. I was told those things didn't need to even be appreciated because it was my "job." Even though I had a job as well. And I handled those responsibilities stoically.

I grew to resent those "duties". Resented the lack of help more than the actual duties. My X, very recently told me that he now understands and knows that he should have been doing more. Surprising? To me it was...

In my current R, we have much more equal footing. We both love cooking, have OCD about certain household duties (thankfully, they are opposite so we each tackle what we obsess about for the most part) but we have the same desire to have a clean house and work to make sure that neither one of us is bearing the brunt of it. We both work and contribute to the household funds and we talk about the finances. We talk about improvements we want to make to the house, the yard, what we want to spend money and time on. We discuss issues with the kids and bounce ideas off of each other. We discuss the best way to handle any of these issues and then each of us makes the final decision regarding our biological children. Even though one of us primarily does the shopping, we make our grocery list together.

This doesn't take away from our individual thoughts or impulses, in fact, I believe it allows us to be more supportive of them.

I love Goodwill and yard sales. I may not always need something, but I love scouring for bargains. If I see something, I can feel free to buy it if the money is available without the feeling of guilt of not checking with BF first. Or wondering if I am taking away from a need of the household or doing something that he won't like or approve of.

We appreciate when the other does something that needs to be done (scrubbing the toilet) and have no problem asking that something be done if we can't get to it. It allows for neither of us to have unspoken expectations that may go unmet. It allows for us to both be aware of all that is going on. However, neither is expected to do the laundry, cook, clean, or whatever alone. We both participate jointly.

This actually allows us to have free time together. It allows us to plan that time in ways that we want, so we can enjoy it, together or separately. It allows us to keep the connection. And recognize when it may be slipping a bit because life sometimes does get in the way.

Since he's walking away not just from me but also from his two boys, I feel it's essential to do everything in my power to make it possible for him to change his mind about this.

I remember having this belief. Truth is, I was wrong. My X did walk away from me and our son to a degree, however, he has stepped up and become a very involved father. Much more so than I ever expected from him.

When I began to recognize that, I then had to take a different look at my changes and my improvements. To see if they were really for me or for me AND him and our child. Some I kept, some I let go (even though they were legitimate complaints).

If your changes aren't truly for you, because they are things that you WANT to change, they aren't worth the cost. I stopped trying to be perfect for someone else (because the list will be ever changing and ongoing) and just learned to be who I wanted to be. I have to live with me every day. Whether there is someone else there or not.

[adinva]

Hi Cat - you're so perceptive, thanks for provoking my thoughts.

I didn't know what to talk about in IC today so I brought the division of labor vs sharing responsibilities question. I had a set of assumptions that I thought were important to being in a good marriage, and some were misguided or incomplete. The division of labor was one. So IC and I talked a little more about my specific situation and how different couples organize their lives differently, and the key turns out to be how they negotiate conflict. H and I divided up our responsibilities to avoid conflict. H did the laundry because he didn't like how I did it, and he probably resented it, although I thought it was a good solution and really appreciated it. H left me with the childcare because he didn't like my methods and didn't know how to have a discussion about them. He resented me and didn't tell me until after the bomb. Just a couple of examples. So, if I took the childcare duties because h and I agreed that I was doing a wonderful job and much better at certain things than he is, and if we agreed that he'd do the car maintenance because he's good at it and likes it, that would have been healthy. What we had was avoidant. And to bring back in your sharing concept, the discussing and agreeing, and negotiating differences, is where the sharing would have come in. So you could say that good partners share everything - even if they don't both DO everything. Interesting to think about.

We talked about the recent dog issues and she was really happy with how I expressed myself to H respectfully when we disagreed about feeding the dog table scraps. I had said that I didn't agree but didn't feel very strongly about it so I would respect that he was going to do it and I wasn't going to tell him not to, but asked that he respect that I wasn't going to do it. A couple of days later when the dog had diarrhea it was an easier conversation to mention that something was upsetting his stomach and let's stick with dog food until it's sorted out.

We talked about H's two nights out, which were announced as he was going out the door. I need to set some expectations that he'll be more considerate with providing notice and telling me when he isn't coming home.

We talked about h's passive aggressive behavior about his friend's lawn. He seems to have some kind of agreement with his friend that he hasn't made clear to me or S14, but he expects S14 to mow the friend's lawn, and midday on Sunday he loads up the mower and heads over to do it himself. He seems to act like he doesn't care and isn't mad, but we think it's very strange that he's carting the mower around and mowing his friend's lawn in another subdivision. S14 earns $20 when he does it. There's no specific time that's been established, we just know it's past due when H is gone with the lawnmower. I need to talk to H about what is being expected and ask H to talk with S14 and clarify what the rules and expectations are. S14 is seeing passive aggressive behavior, but needs to learn to respectfully navigate it.

We talked about how H is emotionally separated already. The boys have lost their father already. The moving out is going to just bring it out in the open, that's all. We'll probably need to talk soon about what he's planning.

[RoRoinMD]

I'm a mix of lots of extremes. I'm shy and outgoing, confident and self-conscious, intelligent and spacy, happy and sad. All depending on what I'm thinking about at the moment. I've learned to control my emotions and thoughts almost to the point where I don't even know what they are, but I'm learning to undo that. I'm seeing a counselor for the first time as an adult, and it's taking me to the next level of capability and effectiveness, and helping me be ok with what's happening in my life.

Sometimes someone on the board captures exactly how I'm feeling. You just did with the above statements. It's so hard to explain sometimes. Debating on whether to go back to counseling or not. My counselor was great and I learned alot about how my family and my past experiences have shaped who I am. But I think I need a SBT now. I know the why...now what do I DO?