You are both correct. I am not going to lie to anyone one this board at all - I am scared to death of the divorce. I am not proud of the fact that I am seemingly lacking in strength to meet this thing with a more robust heart. Why am I scared? I will speak as honestly as possible in the hopes that I can get a hand calming the hell down.
1. I never, ever wanted to be a part time dad. I am afraid of all of the time I will be missing with him. Already I have missed so many new things that he has done. My heart breaks every time I have to bring him back to my w - and that never gets any better - at least it hasn't yet. I am afraid that this is going to be what my life is with him forever. I miss him all of the time he is gone.
2. I am afraid that I am going to fall apart financially. Already with what I have to give her I am damn near paycheck to paycheck. I haven't had to live like that since I left college. I have worked so hard an sacrificed so much to be able to provide. I am going to lose so much in my retirement and other things that it's going to stretch out the amount of time I am going to have to work. I am afraid of falling back down a ladder that I have fought, been beaten up and strived so hard to climb.
3. Most embarrassingly, I am afraid that after the divorce that she will find someone else that she falls madly in love with and I will must be a phase of her life that came and went. I am afraid that she will remarry and someone will take away the woman that I love and that my son will have a new male "figure" in his life. I am humiliated that I can't control my feelings any better than this ^^^^^^, but imam being honest.
So there it is. Those are the main reasons why I am scared to death of the divorce. Plus, how will I know that she really would want to work on things once it is all done.
"So there it is. Those are the main reasons why I am scared to death of the divorce. Plus, how will I know that she really would want to work on things once it is all done."
You don't know if she'll really want to, or not. I already knew those things you listed, b/c we talked about this before. Nobody faults you for feeling the way you do. It's just that we can see how you are tearing yourself apart. Nobody wants to be a part-time parent (not those who really love their kids). Nobody wants to be ruined financially. And certainly nobody wants to see their S fall in love and M another person. But my question is......do you have any power over it? Can you stop it? Can you change it? If not, what will you decide to do? I'm worried about you, Crimson. You've got to find peace before you self-destruct. Below is a copy of an old prayer, but I hope you'll look at yourself in these words. ((Crimson)).
Serenity Prayer God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
(Although known most widely in its abbreviated form above, the entire prayer reads as follows...)
Living one day at a time; Enjoying one moment at a time; Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace; Taking, as He did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it; Trusting that He will make all things right if I surrender to His Will; That I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with Him Forever in the next. Amen.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you, Sandi. I just printed two copies of that prayer and they are going on the mirror in my bathroom and on my fridge.
There is nothing I can do about any of it. The problem with being somewhat of a type-A personality, you always think that there is a way to fix everything....a way to achieve anything you want if you work hard enough and focus on it. Sadly, as it comes to love and emotions - this is just not the case. A person (me in this case) will bloody their head on the wall trying to make it happen. I am a living example, and yet somehow I think I am the one that can be the first to outsmart it. I guess it's that "never give up" attitude. I guess I partially believe that if I let go and give it to the D that it is the equivalent of giving up on my marriage. I know that I KNOW better than that - it's just a hard correlation to break.
I want to remain consistent....upbeat and positive with my W - but right now, I just want to be away from her until I can get a better grip on my feelings and make peace with the divorce and all that it will take away.
Crimson I think I understand you. I too will go to the end of the world to get something accomplished. Not because I wanted it. I did it in many ways. When I was in grad school many said I wouldn't finished. I worked full time went to class full time and did 14 hours of internship a week. Guess what I did it on time and with an almost 4.0 average. Yes I'm proud of what I did. But my W is even more driven. So I never felt good about my accomplishments. Let go of life as you know it. Chill for a bit. Let life happen.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
It really is a crappy way to be as it relates to other people, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder if some of that dripped into the behaviors that my wife didn't like in me. Who am I kidding? It had to. Maybe letting go of things and letting life occur when I can do nothing to control it is the "holy grail" of 180s for me.
It's very hard for me to let life happen when I know that it is going to result in something negative for me - I try like hell to fight it.
crimson - i agree with the type a thing - you wrote a good description of what it comes out as in our sitches - and you saying that it would be the mother of all 180's - oooh - lightbulb moment for all of us.
that's the next 180 for me - for sure
i know you're in a hard spot - but stay cool and don't let what hasn't happened yet overwhelm you
it's amazing - whatever i';m struggling with in the moment, i come here and read the threads and there's someone else going through the same thing, and then i read what others write to them to support them, and it helps me so much
what i'm working on myself and which eases things and may help you - every time i'm upset about something with the sitch, i look at it as resistance on my part in how things are playing out. and then i see that in every area that i resist - that's what h can push against and keep his stance and keep moving away. so the less i resist - the less fuel he has to keep his resistance up - you can't keep fighting against something that won't fight back, can you?
take care zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
It really is a crappy way to be as it relates to other people, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder if some of that dripped into the behaviors that my wife didn't like in me.
Ya think?!?!?!?!
Originally Posted By: Crimson
It's very hard for me to let life happen when I know that it is going to result in something negative for me - I try like hell to fight it.
Hmmm, a series of negative things have happened while you didn't just let life happen. And in the snippets when you've acccepted life as it happens, things temporarily improved.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Well, at the moment I think I have located the "exit" in my head. Poorly illuminated, though it may be. Pretty much beginning to identify that fear and sadness come and go in waves - just the same as courage and confidence.
Sandi - I have read that prayer about a dozen times and it helps as a mantra. As noted, it is perched on my bathroom mirror right now - I hope to read and internalize it every morning.
This morning I think I initiated a more calm (hopefully) line of questioning. And it boils down to one question that I really am throwing out there - is it just trust?
If I look at the net positives - and when I am not spiraling I think I can do it - there are a lot.
We both want another child - and would prefer to do it together
She has acknowledged that I am a good father
MUCH to my surprise, she said that I "set the bar pretty high" in terms of men and that "there aren't a lot of good guys like you out there"
Still thinks I am physically attractive
As briefly commented on how her communication skills got us here, too
Has said she is open to working on things
All of these things sound good if she really means them - and it sounds like a good starting (or re-starting) point for the both of us. And if I look objectively at all of those things - it doesn't particularly sound like a woman that is completely repulsed by me. And still, she feels the need to proceed towards divorce. Which, naturally, I don't like - but I am learning to accept. As Sandi and others have said - hell, we already ARE divorced - what's the difference?.
So it really begs the question - is it just trust? And is that lack of trust what she is talking about when she says she doesn't have "feelings" and that her "heart is closed" and she can't force it open?
The basic question I am asking - and I am not wise in the ways of women's hearts - is it trust that drives feelings? If that is the case, I can see why she is holding her ground with the D a little bit more clearly.
By all accounts on the boards and from the vets - especially the women, it's about sufficient time. Is it TRUST that is being built back during that time? Or is it a matter of just waiting for the magical "butterflies" of new romance to return? Because I don't know if a couple can ever go back to that "we just met" euphoria.
And if it IS trust that needs to be rebuilt (assuming that she is honest about the postives she's stated above) how to I do I help her get that back over time? I know that it is a matter of being consistent - and I think I have been doing a reasonable job there. But what more is there to it? If anything? And what if being "consistent" has a "pursuing" feel to it?
For example - I have been very postive with her and supportive in her career and other things - trying to help build her up. She has acknowledged recently that I am "her biggest fan". Are things like that pursuing?
Additionally, I have really been working on the 180 of being more flattering than I have been in the past. I am learning that that is one of her love languages - words of affirmation. So I try to tell her that she looks nice when I see her - or remind her that she is pretty/beautiful/attractive - no in an overtly gushing way - but in a way to let her know that I know that it is important to her whereas I didn't before.
Are there daily actions that a man can take to help rebuild trust with a WAW that claims to be open to working on things?
Which brings me to my next point - "work on things". What does that mean for a WAW? She kind of pulled the plug on MC and I have not reintroduced the topic in awhile....should I? How do we work on things? Spending time together? She has been somewhat relucant to do that in the absence of out son. I feel that staying disconnected and interacting whenever we see each other isn't really "working" on things? But is it?
She claimed that we have "major problems" - all of which I have detailed in threads in the past. If she perceives them as "major" is it even possible to work on them if you don't roll up your sleeves and say "let's work on these things"? I really don't know if we can do it if we don't make and effort to. What do I do to "work on it"
I know I have asked a million questions here - but I think I am having a decent moment of calm clarity. Any thought, opinions or answers are gladly welcome.
Baby steps Crimson, baby steps. Patience is the watch word here.
From what I’ve read and I apologize for not reading it all but the last few pages it seems as though she would like to trust. It also seems as though she has looked about and doesn’t see better elsewhere, so maybe trying again is something to do until something better becomes apparent.
It seems she is holding onto the D as an out and holding onto you as plan B until plan A becomes apparent. I understand the pressure.
Patience is needed because she is skittish. I doubt she knows what she wants from time to time.
Driven people are often intense enough to display it quite prominently. Let go of the intensity. Be calm and patient, give time for her to trust what she needs to trust and then give more time.
Permit an old hunter to use an analogy
There is a place I hunt regularly. It is an old apple orchard nestled in a small opening of larger trees; Oaks and a small grove of pines are higher up the hill.
There is a doe coming into the orchard, she wants the apples, but she doesn’t trust her safety. The apples beckon so she tests the air looking for the slightest scent of danger.
If I’m focused upon taking a shot my adrenal reaction will create tension in my body and she is likely to pick out a slight movement or smell and be gone, my hunt busted.
If I am relaxed allowing life to happen, focusing upon the evening sunset, focusing upon the evening's sounds and scents, the scene of this beautiful animal in my periphery slowly building trust then she is much more likely to approach and feed. This provides many more options and I am very likely to simply enjoy her presence and what else it may bring.
Patience, one cannot control the events occurring around one. Controlling ones actions may influence the outcome of the events.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
Crimson, my friend, you are as anxious about getting things "right" as I was. I still think your big picture is that you need to relax and let life come to you more than you need to worry about if you are getting things "right."
Originally Posted By: Crimson
And is that lack of trust what she is talking about when she says she doesn't have "feelings" and that her "heart is closed" and she can't force it open?
For my W, that's what it was, and that what I believe it is for many women. Once they have been hurt or let down, when you have not been there emotionally for them the way they needed you to be, that they could not trust you to be there for them emotionally, or you let them down one too many times when they trusted in you....Then, their heart closes, and they don't have the feelings. I think that is what it is for many women (some women miss the "falling in love" feelings, which is a whole different story, but I don't think that is what it is with your W).
Originally Posted By: Crimson
The basic question I am asking - and I am not wise in the ways of women's hearts - is it trust that drives feelings? If that is the case, I can see why she is holding her ground with the D a little bit more clearly.
She is not holding her ground in the sense that her keeping her heart closed is a conscious decision. She wishes she could open her heart and have the feelings come back. She cannot or does not know how to do so. So, she concludes she needs to D you.
It's not getting back to the falling in love/first time feelings, it is either the passage of time or new experiences that can heal the hurt.
The problem is that the more that YOU try to open their heart actively (by pursuit), the more they defensively shut off to you -- because they see it as your ulterior motives -- it being about you and your needs, rather than about her hurt and her needs to feel safe and loved again.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
And if it IS trust that needs to be rebuilt (assuming that she is honest about the postives she's stated above) how to I do I help her get that back over time? I know that it is a matter of being consistent - and I think I have been doing a reasonable job there. But what more is there to it? If anything? And what if being "consistent" has a "pursuing" feel to it?
See above. You just be a damn good guy living your life with your S and treat her well when she approaches you. The most powerful thing you really can do is to really listen to her and be emotionally there for her. So much of attachment is about that. Don't overdo it or feel compelled that you need to initiate anything or flatter/pursue her or it will backfire.
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Which brings me to my next point - "work on things". What does that mean for a WAW? She kind of pulled the plug on MC and I have not reintroduced the topic in awhile....should I?
No, don't reintroduce MC. Don't try to control what "working on things" means. Let her define it. You simply agree, say, sure, I'm all about working on things. Then get busy with yourself and live your life with your S. Let her initiate whatever she means by "working on things." You want her to be the one to initiate the steps. Just be ready to reciprocate with mojo. If she doesn't initiate anything to "work on things," then fine you have your answer. Her clock will be slower than you would like things to be, so you need to GAL and be busy with yourself.
She's got alot going on before she can get back into a relationship with you since she is in the midst of a divorce.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
