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#2239967 - 04/23/12 03:42 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ]
mmayre16 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 295
That's the thing: my gut tells me he slept with her.
_________________________
Me: 29
H: 31
D: 2
M: 5 years
T: 10 years
ILYBNILWY 2/28/11
I ask for trial separation: 6/3/11
H wants me home: 11/21/11
Found OW emails from 3/11: 3/12
Found pictures from 3/11: 9/12

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#2240013 - 04/23/12 01:48 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
DIM, Gabby's mom is spot on here.

And I will add. Again, that the truth will come out. It's whether you want to see it. From the sound of it, you already know it. Why are you covering it up?

Martha Beck talks about this in her new book - our Rhinos. We all have them. We have to face a Rhino at least once in our life, and our brain tells us it's going to kill us. Dead meat. But what doesn't kill us, makes us stronger. Stronger than you can ever imagine.

Your emotions are there for a reason. You said it yourself you can't ignore them - even on meds. Even trying to push them away. And yet you talk about your H pushing HIS emotions away. Is that just pure projection?

(BTW, if you look up Apathy in the same book I mentioned - the Language of Emotions, you'll see it's the flipside of expressing anger). This is SUCH a common dynamic, especially in codependent relationships - you expressing, him repressing.

And when you feel like the "blind leading the blind" or that he's younger. He is. You both are acting out childhood stuff right now- all over the place.

Who is going to be in the adult place in charge of the show? (Do you know how to switch into your adult space and talk to the inner child)? It can help.

I say none of this to judge you but to put language to some of what you're describing to maybe help clarify some things.

But back to what GM is saying - you KNOW everything you need to know. You need the strength, the space, the fortitude and courage to deal with it.

My intuition told me from my first date PRECISELY what would happen with my Ex. I knew one day he would walk away saying "I can't do this anymore." And he did, three years later and a child together.

Trust what you know. And decide from that place of inner knowing what you need to do next.

We're all here for you.

Your wisdom is going to keep screaming at you and getting louder and louder - whether through more anger, more panic attacks, or more lash-outs, etc. until you stop and listen to what it needs to do/say.

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#2240017 - 04/23/12 01:51 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
P.S., I know b/c this is a DBing forum, many will rush to your side to say they survived an affair, it can be done, you can do it to, you can "let go," etc. That's great - there is a lot of support. IN EITHER DIRECTION.

But ultimately you have to be the one to make the choice about what you know. You have this power, May. And it will teach you to trust yourself for the rest of your days.

Step back into your power and stop being a victim of the unknown. Know what you know. And decide what to do with your life and your marriage.

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#2240129 - 04/23/12 06:42 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Just one more thing from me regarding handling negative emotions, DIM...

Where perhaps you buried them in the past... or handled them in a less than healthy way... and yes... they will come up from time to time...

Not sure what your beliefs are regarding the human condition of being able to spontaneously modify one's emotions...

IF this is something that you consider accurate... you might practice changing your emotions on demand...

and secondly...

allocate specific (and appropriate) times and places to have your moments of sad... angry... frustrated...

what ever you need to work through and release those emotions... with a maximum time per "session" so that you don't go through your day in those negative emotions...

I used to do that at night, when I was by myself... those were the times I really allowed those emotions out which eventually lead to those emotions not erupting at inappropriate times...

and I knew those emotions were released over the specific context when I would try to get myself into the negative emotion... and there was nothing more... no more tears... no more anger... no more fear...

As always... just a thought...

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#2240138 - 04/23/12 07:04 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ~ kd ~]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
DIM, love what KD says here, you can read about this (sorry to keep drilling in this book) in Language of Emotions - she teaches you how to process your emotions, burn old contracts, strengthen your boundary, etc. All *within your own boundary* - so you feel the feelings and move through them without repressing or expressing outward (to others).

I know people who carry this book around like a bible. It's just a great reference to have on hand.

And it's a good way too to practice just being alone and processing and even starting to ask your intuition/self, what you need to do next, etc. rather than coming from a reactive place or looking outside yourself.

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#2240173 - 04/23/12 08:29 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: mmayre16]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: dueinMay
That's the thing: my gut tells me he slept with her.


no offense but if this is all, then wth are we telling May "TO DO"?

I'm tempted to say "so what that your GUT tells ou this" when you admit you have major childhood issues with this exact subject matter.

Ever think of that?

And as GM says, even if he had a PA, which HE DENIES and which YOU HAVE NO PROOF Of

he sure doesn't sound like he wants another round of this "Stuff"...

He sounds like he doesn't believe YOU can get past whatever this is,

including the fact that he wigged out during your pregnancy. I mean that is the one thing we are all agreed on; he screwed up while she was pregnant and was a jerk at that time.

And May, if the truth is that you cannot get past that, then move on in your life.

I won't defend you not getting past it, or attack it, but I will call you on it.

You don't know if he had a PA and until recently you thought he had not. Things were looking up. You found OLD stuff that made it sound like a hotter EA (b/c i don't recall the wording I am assuming no actual evidence of intercourse)

and let's face it...

Him having a PA sounds like a better reason for YOU to leave him, than saying 'he wrecked my pregnancy"...
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2240176 - 04/23/12 08:44 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: mmayre16]
Endeavour Offline
Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 323
Originally Posted By: dueinMay
That's the thing: my gut tells me he slept with her.


May, is it your gut or your fear that tells you that?

I will say that from what I've read EA + opportunity = PA

But you know what, in dealing with all this, for me it's not the PA that hurts the most or causes the most damage, it's the lies and deceit.


Whether your H had an EA or a PA it's going to take time to trust him again. His actions are going to speak a whole lot louder than his words. Is he trying? I think he he from what you've posted, he is...

Yes, you guys had a set-back but there are going to be ups and downs. That's part of piecing. The emails were a shock but I think they only confirmed what you already feared and that's why you reacted so strongly.

As for wanting the whole story of his EA, if you want it, you're going to have to make it safe for him to tell you the truth. My H wanted to tell me the truth for months (OW was threatening to tell me to keep him in the A) but he was afraid because he wanted our M and he didn't want to lose me (I know, where was this "choosiness" when he met her). Anyway, I remember telling my H when he was vacillating back and forth like a madman between our M and D, that if he was involved in an A to just let me know because if he was, he could have his D. When I said that, I meant it. Then I started reading the forums and many of the books recommended on the forums and I started to wonder if I needed to own my stuff more.

I will say that if we had been in a good M and H had a PA, I would have gone to D but our M was bad and I knew it, so that was something to think about. Something to work on.

Yes, I was one of those people who said a PA was my dealbreaker (and who knows maybe it still is...).

But you know what, I don't want to look back one day and think maybe we could have fixed this...

Also, I've read enough infidelity boards to realize that none of us have a crystal ball. There are some M's dealing with infidelity after 30 years. I'm guessing many of those spouses never saw it coming. You could get into another M and your spouse could turn out to be a serial cheater, and you don't find this out until 10-20 years in. Sadly, I've read about that disturbing revelation far too often.

At least with your H, you know what you're dealing with to some extent. He's a flawed man, but aren't we all?

If you want more details concerning his A, write down all your questions (this is what I did) and then really think about those questions. Will the answers help you heal or will they keep you stuck? If a week later, you still want those answers, then ask.

But be prepared for the truth.

The EA or the PA or whatever it was, happened. You can't change the past. Believe me, I wish I could. And my H's wishes he could and I believe him.

I think the most important questions are "Is he remorseful?" and "WHY?". Why did it happen? My H and spent a lot of time discussing the "whys" because once you know the "whys", you have a good place to start. For my H and I, we needed to deal with conflict better and take our egos out of it. I needed to show him more affection, he needed to meet my needs and not only be concerned with his own, and we needed to ML more often. There's more but that's an overview. Anyway, now we know what we need to do to make sure our M doesn't reach a crisis point again. We each have a responsibility in changing things about ourselves to make the M better.

Understanding the "whys" does not mean you are responsible for his EA. That was his decision alone. You own your half of the M problems and he owns his, but the decision to have an EA was a decision he made on his own.

I have no idea whether my H and I will make it but I'm going to do the work and find out. Somedays I don't feel like doing the work, I admit, but then I often think about what one of our MC's said about kids and marriage. He said they're not the reason you should stay in M that isn't working, but they're a darn good reason to try fixing it.

May, I don't think you should make any decisions in the heat of the moment or based on emotions (isn't that what the WAS does?). We all know feelings change. I've read that after you've been betrayed, you should hold off making a decision about the M for 6 months because you're too emotional during that time period and may change your mind later. Some experts recommend a year. During that time, you get your M in the best shape possible and then if you still decide to leave, at least you can look back and have no regrets.

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#2240203 - 04/23/12 10:02 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: Endeavour]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10875
Loc: west coast
This^^^ is a great post.

(No doubt I'll quote from it for my posts to others-but I will attribute it to YOU!).

Thank you, Endeavor...
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2240205 - 04/23/12 10:03 PM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: 25yearsmlc]
ESN Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 1566
Right. This is what I've been saying all along.

I'm suspecting she can't get past it. So why are we all telling her she should "let go"?

Clearly she's not letting go. But we'll keep trying to talk her out of it ...

For the sake of the marriage...

Which I don't get.

Especially in light of the fact that she seems to want a reason to leave him.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: dueinMay
That's the thing: my gut tells me he slept with her.





And May, if the truth is that you cannot get past that, then move on in your life.

I won't defend you not getting past it, or attack it, but I will call you on it.

You don't know if he had a PA and until recently you thought he had not. Things were looking up. You found OLD stuff that made it sound like a hotter EA (b/c i don't recall the wording I am assuming no actual evidence of intercourse)

and let's face it...

Him having a PA sounds like a better reason for YOU to leave him, than saying 'he wrecked my pregnancy"...

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#2240239 - 04/24/12 12:15 AM Re: I guess I can be here now [Re: ESN]
Endeavour Offline
Member

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 323
Originally Posted By: ESN
Right. This is what I've been saying all along.

I'm suspecting she can't get past it. So why are we all telling her she should "let go"?

Clearly she's not letting go. But we'll keep trying to talk her out of it ...

For the sake of the marriage...

Which I don't get.

Especially in light of the fact that she seems to want a reason to leave him.


ESN, no one is trying to talk May out of anything nor into anything. We are telling her to step back, breath and consider her choices before making any decisions in the heat of the moment.

We are sharing our experiences because that's what we all do on this forum. We share, we learn and hopefully we grow.

In the end, May will do what is best for her and that's all any of us want.

If she wants to leave him, she will.

When I discovered my H's PA, I recall that 25 posted that if I couldn't get past it, she would not judge, that it was okay because not everyone can.

As I said, I'm sure not 100% convinced I can but I'm taking the advice I've learned here on DB as well, as information I've learned from reading other sources, and I'm doing my best to not rush into any decision I may later regret.

I'm letting May know what worked for me. If it doesn't work for her, I am not dependant on the outcome.

When I first read her story, I thought her H was a jerk. I mean who leaves a pregnant woman?! There's got to be some man code against that, right? But we don't know who he is now. We don't live with him.

People change.

And if they don't....then why are any of us here?

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