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#2236180 - 04/07/12 12:36 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: sandi2]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I'd like to encourage you to post more often, b/c some folks may lose heart and think you've stopped posting at all. It happens.


Thanks.
I've actually been a little reluctant because it looks like there weren't many follow-ups. But I just realized I've been looking a web cache...
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

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#2236185 - 04/07/12 12:53 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: sandi2]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: sandi2
It usually comes in spoonful sizes. There are certain things that will take time to correct or rebuild. For instance, changing the passive behavior takes time, but even moreso to convince her that you won't be that passive man any longer. The reason being, you can't prove it by words. She'll have to see for herself, and that takes time.
Success can start by catching a certain look in her eyes. Hearing a particular tone in her voice. Seeing her be more cooperative with you. This can be small glimpses of success, but it can also become an unhealthy pattern a LBH falls into by watching her too closely for reactions and reading into her every look or word.


Yeah, got it--I'm definitely not overanalyzing it as best I can.
And some of those little glimpses are happening, although sometimes they are followed by a quick retreat the next day by W.
But, it's my style to take on anything with the end in mind.
So, part of it is my wondering what the way out of this might look like--and I have a specific concern.

W is not exactly stubborn, but will frequently avoid deep interactions.
And, I'm reasonably sure there's an EA going on.
So, I'm concerned that even if she does get on board to reconcile, she might hesitate because of the emotional weight and effort it took to confront me in the first place.
I guess I'm wondering, well, just what this might look like if W starts trying to really come back to the M, but is up against that wall.
Would it be a shrug and a hug? Crying remorse? Anger?

I think I'm concerned it'll look like avoidance. Just W's same 'sweep it under the rug' kind of attitude that was one of the moving pieces in this puzzle.


Quote:
One of the biggest signs that progress is being made is when you are able to look into her face and see that she truly "wants" to be with you (not b/c some C assigned her to work on being together), she wants to go do whatever you want to do and hang out where you decide. But here's an important issue: She wants you to be decisive and not lay back and tell her you're fine with whatever she wants. Women don't like that. Once in a great while is fine, but not all the time.

I don't think you were passive before M, or she would not have M you (unless she just wanted to get M to anyone, b/c it goes against thee nature of the woman.


Interesting--I've definitely been more decisive about things lately.
And, she's not shying away from spending time with me.

That said, I think she may have also gone on a date the other night.

Quote:
How does success look? Do you know how respect looks? If so, then you will recognize success.


I wonder if it would look like gratitude.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2236186 - 04/07/12 12:56 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: sandi2]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Because in spite of what she does or how she feels toward you and the M, she doesn't want her children to think she's bad.


I think that's part of it.
I also think she doesn't want to be the bad guy in all this.
It's avoiding shame. And avoiding her own loss of self-respect, I think.
In W's words during C, I can "fall back on the excuse of depression".
But I think she doesn't have an excuse, if you follow my meaning.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2236540 - 04/09/12 12:58 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
mykarma Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 791
Loc: TX
Quote:
YES!! That was definitely on my mind. Thank you-it's been a while since I've smiled this broadly


Quote:
And, more seriously, I've (although not alone) definitely given birth to my own situation. Now, I intend to keep on keeping on, and define my own destiny. Somehow.
Lol. That's funny. Yea in a way we do give birth to our own situations. But the day we realize that, we will be able to heal and move forward. Referring to RD, be like the "Cat", not like "Rimmer"!
_________________________
BITS
M 35
W 32
D 4
Married 11 yrs
W left for 6 months in 2009
W Filed for D 01/03/11
piecing now...

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#2236855 - 04/10/12 01:04 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
So, the other night, W had plans to meet with work friends for dinner/drinks while I watched the kids. After her primping and getting fancily dressed, on her way out, I told her completely off the cuff and without even thinking about it to "enjoy your date...you know, with your colleagues". I didn't say it spitefully or with any tone of voice, just 'hey, have a good time'. At first W gets a horrified look on her face until she hears me say 'colleagues'.

W comes home late, and is obviously bent out of shape about something. For the first time in a long while, I initiate conversation and gently ask if she's ok.

W then tells me she had a difficult night. And, that she went by herself to see a metal concert?! I thought this was odd to say the least, but I just let her vent. W tells me that she was to meet work colleagues and they were to all go to the concert together--a going away surprise for one particular co-worker (OP).

W was the only one who bought tickets in advance--two of them. She tells me that she bought them for OP and his male friend so that they could go to the show, and the entire group was going to go the concert.

I found this odd that W bought 2 tickets--one for OP and one for friend--but not one for herself? I said nothing and just let W do the talking.

She goes on to say that she met the group, but the OP didn't meet them there. The bands they were to see were the OP's favorite bands. W tells me the group didn't want to go to the concert anyway, they wanted to go to the bar, but she didn't want to go there. She said she was a bit pissed the group didn't want to see the show, and so told them obstinately that she's going by herself so she doesn't waste the tickets.

She was clearly very bummed out when she arrived home. Why be bummed about getting to go to see a concert?

Maybe I'm a little slow on the uptake, but now it seems very clear--she's having an EA for sure, maybe also PA. I've had my suspicions before, but they've just been wild thoughts/fears. Now it seems clear to me that the OP is her co-worker, or at least was her co-worker until he recently took a new job.

I think she bought tickets for herself and the OP. But then got stood up! I doubt there was even a group, but who knows. I think W still went to the show hoping OP would end up coming late, but didn't come at all.

Then, a next day I'm fixing her computer/phone at W's request. I open the browser, and up loads all the tabs from the last session--searches about quotes for unrequited love. Without being nosy or invading privacy, I'm searching for the word 'package' to find a piece of software on the computer...and lo and behold, as the first hit up comes an email to a work account saying things about wanting to be together as a 'whole package' after the storms pass, etc. I just fixed things and said nothing.

I had my suspicions, but now it makes perfect sense to me. Of course she'd have an EA/PA--I certainly wasn't in any shape to be engaged at all. She wants freedom and feeling, I couldn't provide it, and she found it somewhere else. But, my instincts also tell me maybe--just maybe--it even was all one-sided on the part of W, rather like some flirting becoming waking fantasy. Or, possibly they were banging away at work after hours, who knows.

It would explain so much--why the jump to WAW without any conversations previous to it, the detachment from what was left of our M, the lack of feeling/concern for me (when I was asking for W's help with my depression).

Maybe she WAW'd because OP took at least a friendly interest (or more) with her, she saw a way out. Although she told me directly several times there wasn't anyone else involved, one reason given during the bomb was 'we should do this before one of us cheats on the other'. It would also clearly explain her anger when I was pursing her and sent flowers--to her work. She told me over and over again how it was very awkward and didn't know what to say about them to her co-workers. I remember thinking at the time "well, just tell them they're from your H" and noone would think twice. But if there was OP and an EA at work, and I sent flowers, maybe it screwed up her plans or at least made her have to deal with it directly.

I swear I was jumping off the walls when I figured this out, I was so relieved and happy. Hooray, my W is having a EA/PA! How messed up is that? But, for the first time I felt like I had handles on this problem. If I better understand the situation, I believe I can better influence the outcome.

I'm so happy, frustrated, and angry all at the same time. I've never had this feeling before.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2236858 - 04/10/12 01:07 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
Spoonfuls of positive indications the past few days.
Actually having fun together with W, both of us.
Some little signs, such as W's gentle touch on my chest when we are not having any physical contact at all.
W dropping suggestions of things we can do together in the near term--not exactly dates, but things to do together and alone.

Also, we had another C session which was very intense.
During it, W was deeply emotional in my presence for the first time since the bomb. First verbal and direct statements that maybe, just maybe, we can work through this. How she was backed into a corner and had no other options. How great it would be if we come out of this back together.

I'm not holding my breath, but this is definitely the most intense therapy I've ever been in.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2237038 - 04/10/12 09:54 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
Having to go to a wake for a close family friend with your WAW is a very difficult experience. I've been an internal emotional trainwreck all evening.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2237040 - 04/10/12 09:58 PM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
AprilT Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 127
Loc: Georgia
Love and light going out to you. Hope it helps.

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#2237102 - 04/11/12 09:05 AM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
A surprising and genuine thank you from the W for packing the kids lunches the past two days. "It really helps me not get stressed out and get to work on time."
Doesn't she realize that D means she'll be doing this every time when the kids are with her?
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
#2237417 - 04/12/12 10:29 AM Re: Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb [Re: ouroboros]
ouroboros Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 41
On the days my reservior of grace and humility is running dry, like today, sometimes I find myself getting really angry. Especially when I'm alone.

I feel so incredibly betrayed, used and attacked. I'm so angry about what's happening to my family and my kids. It's as if someone stole something from me right in front of my face, and is just standing there.

I find myself having *irrational* thoughts about retribution. For example, maybe I should flirt/date some random OW, or go have a physical fling. I found myself having a very irrational and fleeting vision that I was in a serious car wreck--and I confusingly got some minor pleasure out of the vision in that it would hurt W that I was physically injured and would leave her to have to take care 100% of the chores/kids.

Some days are better than others.
_________________________
(formerly crushd)
Married 14 yrs
M41/W43/D7/S4
M: MLC, major depression/W: WAW
Bomb 2/26/12, 2 days before anniversary
Detachment, Grown Apart, "I love you like the father of my children", EA/PA?

Top
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