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#2234362 - 03/30/12 12:27 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: tenbusrider]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9117
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Great news, for both you and your dad.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S 3/11-12/13

She could never go back and make some of the details pretty. All she
could do was move forward and make the whole beautiful
~Terri St. Cloud

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#2234384 - 03/30/12 02:46 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: labug]
Grmpy_Mnky Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 524
Loc: MS
keep the faith man, its working.

The drinking thing:Recently I got to a point where I was drinking hard about three nights a week. Living above a bar did not help. I felt physically crappy all the time and my thoughts became clouded too. I have since stopped and I feel so much better now. So I know what you mean.

Things are happening for you now. Keep it up!
_________________________
Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.

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#2234850 - 04/02/12 02:00 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: tenbusrider]
tenbusrider Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 156
Eventful day yesterday...

I'd been a bit pensive for the last couple of days. W noticed a couple of days earlier and kept asking me what was wrong. I'd shrug or shake my head, but never really answered the question. She pushed on, saying I looked like I needed to say something. She's very perceptive. I did.

Yesterday, I woke up to her watching a recorded sermon from our church (they get posted on their website). She didn't seem to be in the best mood, maybe a little tired. I wasn't sure. S has been having problems with his allergies and was a little warm to the touch. Nothing serious, but enough for W to not want to go to church and put him in the nursery.

I expressed a bit of disappointment in that... she hadn't gone last week, wasn't going this week, probably won't be going next week due to work, and has a bachelorette party the following weekend where she plans on drinking and staying with her friends. I reminded her of this, and asked if she didn't care anymore. Of course, this upset her a bit. It started a conversation, though...

I don't remember many details from the morning's talk, but at some point, she brought up the OM she had the EA with years ago, telling me that she kept trying to forget about him, but he keeps showing up in her dreams and she doesn't know why. I wasn't especially surprised by this (an effect of the snooping I'd done a while back - she keeps a dream journal). I didn't have much to say about it, though. She went on to say that he doesn't do anything she likes, and between the two of us, didn't think she could trust another man.

Throughout this talk, she kept asking me what it was I'd wanted to say. She knew I had something on my mind. I told her I was ready to apologize, and had been for some time, but wasn't sure if she was ready to hear it. She said that she was. I told her I'd need a little bit more time to look back over my journal, but that I'd do it later on in the day. Other conversation continued, talk about expectations or lack thereof for MC and things of that nature. At some point, sex came up, and I apologized to her for objectifying her during our marriage. She thanked me for that, and it was easy to tell that she was surprised by that apology. At another point in the conversation, I told her that no matter what the future holds for us, it was clear that our old M was dead and gone.

I'd been working on my phone the previous day, and it was still completely disassembled on my desk. I tried to reassemble it, and in the process, did something to screw the display up. My frustration started growing exponentially - I'd spent most of the money I'd allowed myself to have out of the tax return on stuff to fix the phone up, now I'd broken something else, and don't have the money to fix it.

She kept repeating, throughout our talk, that she didn't know what was going to happen, that she didn't understand what she was feeling, that she wanted to be revitalized. She told me that she forgave me for the things that I'd done wrong, to which I asked her to wait until I'd actually apologized to say that she'd forgiven me.

I had to run an errand in the afternoon, and she and S went with me. I told her she didn't have to, but she seemed to want to. Of course, conversation continued. This time, I was able to tell her that the reason I didn't participate too heavily in her spiritual discussions was because I was only recently starting to read the Bible, and could only barely follow along when it came to other spiritual matters, and more importantly, when she brought these things up, it seemed to be her trying to justify divorce.

That was the last thing I was able to say for a while, as she went on about other spiritual things. I don't remember what all she was saying, but it was on the same bend of things I'd just told her were the reasons I wasn't able to participate, mostly that she was trying to justify divorce. My frustration was reaching critical mass. I got quiet.

When we got home, I brought the groceries in and she started putting them away. I quietly slipped into my office and shut the door, then began crying. Not really sobbing or being dramatic, just trying to get it out of my system. She came in and stood in the doorway for a second before asking what was wrong, if it was because of something she'd said. I told her that was part of it, but I'd mostly just wanted to grieve privately. She apologized for intruding, but didn't go away. I began telling her how sorry I was for the rotten things I'd done. She gave me a hug that I tried to resist, and told me that God would forgive me.

After I'd calmed down a bit, I realized I had a good chance to apologize. Most of the words I'd wanted to say were already in my mind. I didn't repeat what I'd written exactly, but I hit all the major points. It was pretty similar to what I posted before, but I'd updated it a bit. For posterity's sake, I'll paste the updated version here:

In the short period of time that I haven't been drinking, I've been doing a lot of reflecting on our time together, comparing my mental processes now to what they were at any point while I was drinking. It's an ongoing process, but there are some things I wanted to share with you.

I used to think that because police never had to get involved as a result of my drinking, that it wasn't that big of a problem, but I'm seeing now just how large of a problem it actually was, and how much of a role it played in me disappointing you and letting you down.

When you had your gall bladder surgery, I stayed in your room until you'd been brought back. I asked the nurse if you were going to be awake tonight, hoping I could go home and drink. When she said you wouldn't be, I left. There was no excuse for that, there was absolutely no reason that I couldn't have stayed there with you. This is only one example of many, but a significant one in both our minds. Unfortunately, there were worse things that happened.

I think that the worst thing about the times that I hit you was that I'd convinced myself I was justified in doing what I'd done. Sobriety and serious introspection has shown me that not only was I wrong, but I horribly abused both you and your love for me. The betrayal and indignation you feel are no longer a surprise.

The issue with the webcam is actually one of my largest regrets, looking back. There were more constructive ways I could have handled it, particularly by treating you the way you deserved to be treated, instead of scrutinizing and spying on you. I really feel that if I'd recognized that back then, we wouldn't be where we are now.

That's similar to how I was obsessing over your hyperthyroidism. I'd read that the symptoms and behaviors you were showing were an effect of the disease, and failed to recognize the more obvious signs of a marriage that was falling apart.

But these are just the largest things I did wrong... there are innumerable other things that happened so often as to be a pervasive part of how I disrespected you: looking at other women, telling you to shutup or that I didn't care when you just wanted to talk to me, manipulating you, and taking the person most important in my life for granted. It really is no wonder you can't trust me. I wouldn't feel any differently if our roles were reversed.

You really have put up with a lot for me, and I was too blind to see it.

I've spend entirely too much time being a victim, constantly trying to shift blame off of me, like I was somehow perfect in every situation that came up. This has affected every relationship I've ever had, and I'm tired of it. It's no wonder I have so few friends, and have alienated you the way that I have.

I want you to know how sorry I am for what I've done. For drinking for years, for belittling you, for abusing you... I don't know why it took all this to make me see it, but I'm grateful to you for forcing me to see it. This is why I'm asking you, from the bottom of my heart: will you please forgive me?


I also added in an apology for all the porn that I looked at, and encouraging us to watch together.

After I'd finished, she told me that she did forgive me, and went in to some other things about the last ten years together, telling me that the blame wasn't mine alone, that she knows she should have spoken up about certain things much earlier in the relationship, but wasn't sure if she'd done so, if our relationship would have survived. I admitted that in the first couple of years we were together, if she'd done what had happened over the past few months, I'd probably have moved on, but that at any point after that, I'd probably have reacted similarly to how I am now.

She got upset and started crying, for several reasons, I think. I tried to be reassuring, but also didn't want to push her too hard in any direction.

After a little more conversation, I remembered something I'd wanted to show her. I told her that I knew she knew I was serious, but wanted to show her a token of just how serious I was. We went back to my office (where most of the apology and following conversation took place), and I deleted my porn folder. It was a folder she was well aware of, had told me it was okay to have at one point years ago. I think I blew her mind. The look on her face after I did that conveyed genuine surprise.

She told me I could keep the pictures we'd taken, but had to delete them if I met another woman. I grinned.

She started expressing self-confidence issues, and I told her she needed to stop being so hard on herself, that she was beautiful, not just physically, though she's very sexy and desirable. She asked me "Really?" to which I asked "Want me to prove it to you?"

Of course, she said no, but it was worth a shot, I think.

So it was starting to get on into evening at this point, and attention was turned towards dinner, but first we'd let S run out some energy in the back yard. The conversation continued, but now Kristen was saying things like she wanted to be revitalized again, that even though I'd finally made the changes she wanted to see, she wanted to be with someone who was already like that from the beginning (???), was as in love with her as she was with them from the beginning (???) and that she knew the only way she'd feel better was if she was with someone else.

I told her, in a voice that was probably a bit too weak, that I was sorry that she felt that way. She then proceeded to get mad at me, talking about how she couldn't share her feelings with me. I told her she was certainly allowed to share her feelings with me, but if it was something like that, I had a right to be upset. She went on to say something about not having any dignity in this process, and I said that I'd just been told I wasn't good enough and never would be. Really, how was I supposed to feel?

I'd mentioned again, at some point, how sorry I was, and she again told me that God would forgive me. I told her He already had, and that it was her forgiveness that I was seeking.

The topic was dropped as we went to working on dinner. After a few minutes, we went to smoke a cigarette, and she told me that she knew she'd said some contradictory things during the day today. She said she didn't know what was going to happen, but that she only knew how she felt in the present. I thanked her for being honest, told her it was probably the most honest thing she'd said all day, and also, most importantly, that I truly did understand.

We talked a little more as we finished working on dinner, but the mood had changed considerably. We'd fried some mushrooms, and they were cool enough to eat. She told me to go on and get one, so I started digging for my case for my veneers (they aren't the permanent kind and I can't eat in them). As I was doing this, she told me to go on and get one. I explained what I was doing, and she told me that she'd forgotten I had that, because it was looking so natural now. I removed them and smiled at her, then told her I was sorry for that (lol). She told me that it really didn't bother her... then called me honey.

The conversation began (finally) winding down, and she said that she was happy that we had rebuilt our friendship and wanted to maintain it "no matter what happened." I was starting to get really tired of that phrase, so I asked her what she'd meant by that, if it was no matter what happens in either reconciliation or divorce, or if it was just what happens after we divorce. She said if we reconcile or divorce. Just wanted to be clear.

A commercial came on the radio for a concert series in a local park, where Chicago, Seal, and Duran Duran would be playing (though not all at the same time). She said she'd love to go, and I asked her if she wanted me to take her. She told me no one else would. I said I was so glad to be a consolation. She looked back at me and grinned and said "There's no one else who'd do it with me." She really seemed to want me to be the one to take her.

The air in the house was much lighter after all of that, maybe more than it had been in months. S had run himself ragged out in the backyard and had passed out in my bed. We ate fried mushrooms, bacon-wrapped chicken livers, and a baked potato while we watched American Horror Story.

It was a tough, emotional day for the both of us, but in the end, we were both able to say that we'd gotten out pretty much everything there was to say without the assistance of MC. She wants me to book the appointment. I told her to give me a list of her days off for the next two weeks, then I will.

I think it was worth it, all said. I feel like our communication improved more significantly yesterday than it has in years, though I suspect this is only the tip of the iceberg as far as communication improvement is concerned... after all, we're still in this sitch.

I feel like I backslid a bit with the crying, though I did TRY to be private about it. I also told her I loved her, but when I did, I said that I wasn't looking to elicit a reaction, that she'd said this to me several times, and I just wanted to remind her that I still feel this way, though I know she knows that. On the other hand, it feels good to have all that on the table finally, and without the assistance of counselling. We both hope it'll move us past that part of the counselling quickly so we can get down to the brass tacks. I guess we'll see.
_________________________
Me: 31
W: 28
M: almost 6
T: 10.5
S2
Bomb#1: 05/11
Bomb#2: 11/11
S'd: 11/28/11
Moved back in: 12/28/11
MC: 06/28/12

...what is it about the 28th day of the month?

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#2234867 - 04/02/12 03:26 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: tenbusrider]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Ten - sounds like you had a good opportunity to share with your W all that you have been feeling. It would appear that your W is still unsure or where the R goes from here and this is where I think you need to take things slow.

She has given you important clues into how she is feeling and where her insecurities and trepidation lie. Tread very carefully here and see how things continue to develop.

Your upcoming MC session may prove helpful or.... may create other problems. You will need to listen very carefully and be prepared to share those things that are most important to rebuilding your R with your W.

Since your W is religious and you seem open to it, have you considered Retrouvaille as an alternative to or compliment of MC? You may have touched on this before and if so I'm sorry for bringing it up again. But if not, think about it and see if maybe this might be something worthwhile to explore.

Now about that dinner of yours.... We ate fried mushrooms, bacon-wrapped chicken livers, and a baked potato. It all sounds delicious, but is it healthy? wink
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2234873 - 04/02/12 03:45 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: 2thepoint]
tenbusrider Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 156
Thanks, 2pac. I'm somewhat nervous about MC, truthfully, because of all the possible variables. I've been told by my pastor that this guy is the best counselor he's worked with, so I'm hoping it will be good stuff.

I have thought about Retrouvaille, but I'm not sure if I'm in a place where I can suggest it just yet. I'd love to be able to!

Dinner was awesome, but no, not very healthy. smile Just a good comfort food night for us.
_________________________
Me: 31
W: 28
M: almost 6
T: 10.5
S2
Bomb#1: 05/11
Bomb#2: 11/11
S'd: 11/28/11
Moved back in: 12/28/11
MC: 06/28/12

...what is it about the 28th day of the month?

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#2234876 - 04/02/12 04:30 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: tenbusrider]
Grmpy_Mnky Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/11
Posts: 524
Loc: MS
This stuff works if you let it. Praying for ya Ten, keep it up!!
_________________________
Me: 44
Bomb: 11/27/11
Divorced:6/12
Life goes on: 6/13


Dogs still like bacon...a lot.

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#2234897 - 04/02/12 06:01 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: Grmpy_Mnky]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9117
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Wow, Ten, things have really changed for you. Very different from your first posts here.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S 3/11-12/13

She could never go back and make some of the details pretty. All she
could do was move forward and make the whole beautiful
~Terri St. Cloud

Top
#2234910 - 04/02/12 06:46 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: labug]
purgatory Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/11
Posts: 825
Loc: Virginia
That must have been an intense conversation or both of you.... Hope it sits with her and starts to grow. MC can be good if you approach it without an edgame in mind- open mind and open heart will give you the most options.

Praying for you, but this seems like a step in the right direction.
_________________________
M-31, H-31
T-9, M-7
S-6, s-20mth
sep 8/1/11
ILYNILWY 11/29/11
Creating separation papers.
Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12
H moves out 1.20.12

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#2234951 - 04/02/12 10:40 PM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: purgatory]
tenbusrider Offline
Member

Registered: 01/20/12
Posts: 156
Yeah, it was pretty intense... I do feel a bit better now that it's done, though. I hope it starts to grow, too.

I'm certainly not approaching MC with an endgame scenario in mind, but I think she might be. Not trying to mind-read, or anything, but she has said a couple of times that it was the "last step" and "we need to get out of limbo". She did also say that she was comfortable, so maybe she's not in too big of a rush. I guess only time will tell.

Thanks, everyone, for your prayers. The Big Guy is getting a lot about us right now. lol
_________________________
Me: 31
W: 28
M: almost 6
T: 10.5
S2
Bomb#1: 05/11
Bomb#2: 11/11
S'd: 11/28/11
Moved back in: 12/28/11
MC: 06/28/12

...what is it about the 28th day of the month?

Top
#2234964 - 04/03/12 12:09 AM Re: Separation, Moved back in, still ILYBNILWY Part 2 [Re: tenbusrider]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Quote:
Not trying to mind-read, or anything, but she has said a couple of times that it was the "last step" and "we need to get out of limbo"


Ok, red flag here from my perspective. If your W believes this may be the last step, then maybe a 2 pronged approach might be useful.

I read what you said abut Retrouvaille but maybe in the context of needing to get unstuck and out of limbo, now might be a good time to broach the subject. With your W's religious beliefs, this may be just the thing that is needed to help you both.

Maybe consider talking to the MC about this as a piggyback to the MC and see what he says? I just feel like you two need to take advantage of this time to do everything possible to get things back on track.

Now I've never been to RV but from what I've heard and what research I've done, I really think this could help.
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

Top
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