One other thing I can offer from the perspective of someone who's 8 months or so ahead of you in all this -- his reasons for wanting to reconcile are very important to you now, because you feel unsafe in the relationship and you don't want to be left again. Therefore you're looking for hard assurance from him before you feel good about making yourself vulnerable. Here's what I can share with you -- the landscape in 6 months will be completely different than it is now, so his reasons for wanting to reconcile now will no longer matter.
Accuray, So are you saying that I should quit asking him why he wants to work things out with me and if he decides he wants to, then just jump in and start? Stop the questions... and just do it??
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
You're in so much pain, I feel so badly, I wish I could help more. You're doing fine, so don't take my comments to mean that you blew it or you *should* do better, they are just suggestions meant to help.
When you saw H at the park, I would not head right over to give him a big hug -- let him find you and hug you. You need to let him lead you know? You can reciprocate, but don't initiate anything and don't escalate. If he hugs you, hug him back, but don't kiss him or say "ILY". Let him lead 100%. You'll be scared that if you don't initiate, nothing will happen. It will if you're very patient. You really do need to lay off the pursuit, not only when you're apart, but also when you're together. Let him come to you.
Originally Posted By: jks
So are you saying that I should quit asking him why he wants to work things out with me and if he decides he wants to, then just jump in and start? Stop the questions... and just do it??
What I'm saying is, figure out what *you* want. When you thought H was firmly back you had a huge backlash of not wanting him anymore. Spend some time really thinking about what you want. If he does not embrace your religion ever again, if he never apologizes to the degree you would like, would those things be OK with you? Figure out what you want. There is no wrong answer. You need to separate this from what you think your parents want, what you think your kids want, and what you think your H wants. What do YOU and you alone want for your future?
If you decide that you would like a future with H without conditions, meaning you will accept him for who he is without changing, then let that decision guide your actions. If you want him back, but you have some boundaries that he must respect, then let that guide your actions, but be fully prepared to walk if he does not respect them.
H CANNOT reassure you that he will not hurt you again. There's nothing he could do or say *right now* that would be enough. You might think there is, but when you get it, you'll want different or more because you just need time to heal. The fact that he left made you doubt yourself -- and that insecurity is what's preventing you from feeling safe. If you fix *that*, then you're on the right path. This has WAY more to do with rebuilding you than repairing your relationship. You need to KNOW beyond doubt that you are valuable, loveable, and the kind of wife that only a fool would leave. When you are there, then what H's motivations were to reconcile really won't matter at all.
So yes, if you decide that YOU want to reconcile, and H says he's willing, then I'm telling you not to worry at all about his motivations because in six months they won't matter. You'll be in such a different place. The way he will feel about you then won't even be in the same area code as the way he feels about you now -- provided you can stick by your changes.
I can tell you that when I "got my mojo back" as it were, I *knew* I was a great husband and father. I enjoyed what I was able to bring to the relationship, and the knowledge that it was good convinced me that if it wasn't good enough for W, that was her loss, because I have a lot to be proud of with the changes I've made. If you focus on YOU, you will get there too.
I would strongly discourage you from reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" from the perspective of trying to educate and change H. You cannot. You can only educate and change yourself, so only read that book if it holds relevance for your own behavior, or if it will help YOU interact with H in a more positive way. Any time we start down a road of trying to change our spouse, we have lost before we started.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
What I'm saying is, figure out what *you* want. When you thought H was firmly back you had a huge backlash of not wanting him anymore.
Accuray
I think my backlash thoughts were coming from a place of being scared and angry. I thought he wasn't changing and didn't really want anything that he had said to me the night I found out about the PA. I was feeling like, well, fine, I'll show him!! I'm telling you... I have major emotional ups and downs. However, I am suppressing them so much more from him than I ever had before.
So my answer is, yes, I do want my H in my life. I want us to be healthy again. I don't want to know that we both walked away knowing that there was a chance to make something more of it. It is very much for the sake of my kids but it is mostly for the sake of fully forgiving one another and learning to really love again. I want that deep kind of love that I feel for him to be reciprocated. Which would only deepen the love that I feel to a new level.
And, yes, I want to better myself. I was truly getting this. I was on top of things. I was healthy in mind, body, and spirit. His second BOMB nearly killed me though. And I'm not kidding. I have not been so skinny in my entire life. I stand in the mirror and I am completely withering away... just skin and bones. (I am already skinny as it is, so to add this trauma is insane.)
It takes everything I have to eat and my energy level is still very low. Just a couple weeks ago, I was running and working out. I literally am starting from ROCK BOTTOM again. It so overwhelming and frustrating that I had come so far and now my mind is all messed up again.
I'm going to dinner tonight with my best friend. Glad to have something to do.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
I'm wondering today how I should handle myself if my H chooses OW. And then how I should handle myself if he chooses me. I feel this may be coming in the next couple of weeks and I want to prepare myself.
And GAL is on my top priority list right now... I plan to take the kids on a trip this week for Spring Break. Just me and them. I've never done anything like that before so it should be quite the adventure.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
I wouldn't look at it as H "choosing you or OW". It's more "is H's affair over now, or will it be over later?" If it's not over now, then it will be over later.
He can "choose you" and secretly prolong the affair, or he can "choose OW" and have the affair end later and come back to you.
You should act the same regardless of when it ends, continue to work on YOU, continue to 180, continue to GAL, continue to "act as if". Learn to validate yourself and self-soothe. What H does or doesn't do is only as significant as you build it up to be.
If you build this "choice" into a huge event, it's going to have a big emotional impact on you either way that you may have a hard time managing. Relax and breathe. Operate from the perspective that there is no near-term event to worry about, and your timeline of interest is 2-3 months, not 2-3 weeks.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
If H chooses OW, I think he would most definitely want to get D'd though. I think he would feel completely insane and stupid if he made us go through all of that... custody, finances, who gets what... and then once it was over and done with he turns around and decides, "hmmmm, I don't really want to be with OW anymore. Will you take me back?" I can't see that happening. I don't see how it would be ok for us to continue this way... where he continues to see her and sleep with her while he's still married to me and I don't know whether he would either. He knows I have huge values concerning this and it is not moral for a person to do that to their spouse.
Getting caught is one thing, but continuing on is another. So I really do think it is a matter of him deciding one way or the other now. And, personally, I don't think a man can live with trying to live both lives. With him being on the fence, I'm sure he's just as miserable as I am. He wants to start his life with someone, he doesn't want to be in this limbo stage for another 2-3 months. This is why I would say another 2-3 weeks.
I could be very wrong. This is just how my thought process has been lately.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
You know H better than anyone, but it is not that unusual for people to cake-eat for months, even to continue living at home and have sex with both people off and on. People can fence-sit for a very long time. My friend's father had a 15 year affair while he was married and living at home.
If H's affair is not over (versus choosing OW), don't assume that means he will want a divorce, he may be content to "wait and see" for another couple months. He's clearly very conflicted. If H does decide to push for a divorce, there's nothing you can do about that anyway, that's outside of your control.
Forgetting about H and what he may or may not do, what do YOU want? If H does decide to sit on the fence for another 2-3 months, what will you do?
One thing I'm sure you've thought about is giving an ultimatum. The problem with ultimatums is that you have to be willing to enforce them. Usually by the time you're ready to enforce an ultimatum, there's no longer any reason to give one because you've moved on emotionally.
That said, if you decide that YOU cannot tolerate fence-sitting for another 2-3 months, then you can give H an ultimatum and tell him that he must go "no contact" with OW including changing jobs, give you full transparency, etc. by X date or you will file for divorce. Now if you lay that down and don't enforce it, you're in a world of trouble because you're no longer credible and he won't respect what you say.
Therefore, before you're at the point to do this, you have to have come to terms with filing for divorce yourself and facing your future without H. It's worth it to spend some time thinking about what you'll do if H does NOT decide and just continues to fence sit.
From my perspective, the best answer is to use the time to work on you, give H the space he wants, and set a longer horizon for your decision making -- i.e. "By the 4th of July, I will need this situation to be resolved, either H and I will be actively reconciling, or I will proceed with a divorce request." Then when you get to July 4th, you re-evaluate based upon how you're feeling then. Most importantly, you don't plan to make ANY decisions between now and then. You use the time to work on you.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray, I get what you're saying completely. Thank you for continued guidance and perspective. I will be thinking about this a lot over the next couple of days.
I hope things are going well for you and your W while you're still reconciling. I will have to update myself on your sitch this week. Happy Spring Break!
JKS
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
jks - I think you need to really think about what Accuray said. I'm kind of in the same place as you, so I know you feel when you say "choosing OW". I've restrained myself from giving my H an ultimatum, and I think it was the best decision I made so far. (I've made plenty of mistakes, too!)
Accuray - That was some great advice! I needed to read that myself, as you know.
Thanks for sticking around and giving us another perspective!
