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#2232952 - 03/23/12 10:15 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 283
I'm glad your H stayed longer the other day when taking the kids. I'm sure that felt amazing!!! And the hug....BEST THING EVER!
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

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#2233061 - 03/24/12 03:08 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: hopingandpraying]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
So my question is for Accuracy...

I read Hopeful321's ENTIRE thread last night. I know, I need to get a life. But I couldn't help but connect with all of your advice throughout her story. I would have PM'd you but this site doesn't allow it so this was the only way I could think of to ask you for help.

I have a date planned with H in a couple weeks and I have been pretty "dark" throughout the last month and a half. I still have to see him every week to exchange kids but not a lot has been going on besides that.

I would really just love to have some advice as to where to keep my thought process throughout the date. Going "dark" is a lot easier than dealing with your S face-to-face and implementing all your 180's and such.

If you don't have time, no worries. I just thought I would ask...

Thanks!

JKS
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233070 - 03/24/12 04:38 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Happy to help JKS,

I'm very happy for Hopeful, glad you found her story, although your sitch is quite different. I read your whole thread, you write very well and you have been through a lot!

FWIW I believe the major cause of your problems is the EA. My W did the same thing and when they are involved with someone else, they are "gone". All you can do is tread water and not make it worse.

Your worst enemy are your expectations, because we believe we are owed more respect from our spouse, and we also believe that our incredible efforts should yield improvement -- when they don't its very frustrating and depressing.

In terms of your date, that's a high risk scenario when OW is still involved, because your heart will drive you toward pursuit and away from DB, and there is literally no graceful escape if you start to fall apart.

A few things to think about:

1) You can say "no" for now and leave it at that. Having him wonder why may very much help. If you think about having a boyfriend who cheated on you in high school or college, would you agree to a date if they were still seeing OW? Probably not, because you'd be in a much better position of personal strength.

2) You can counter-propose -- offer to go for a walk or do something where you can gracefully bail out if you don't like how its going

3) Decide to go, but have NO expectations -- very hard, requires maximum strength. You need to apply a "friend standard", as in discuss nothing you wouldn't discuss with a casual friend. Maintain your emotional distance at all costs.

I know how you feel, you really want to go and you want it to be great. You want it to be the first step on the road back. This thinking is your enemy. The shortest distance back is actually a straight line in the other direction.

So, how strong do you feel? Can you pull off friend standard? Can you act as if for the whole date? If not, don't agree to dinner. If you're struggling and feeling weak, say no, that takes the least discipline and has the shortest duration. If you do that, do NOT explain, just say no.

Have faith that if he asked this time, he will ask again, and in between he will be thinking about you.

If you go and start pursuing, you will be shelved and out of mind, and will have to fight your way back.

Remember, he was unfaithful, you can reconcile on your schedule, not his.

I would be interested in your opinion on this, the more I know you the more I can help.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2233130 - 03/25/12 02:16 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Well, found out tonight that H has been sleeping with OW...

The story continues... but it's late. I will update you tomorrow. Wow, what a night.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



Top
#2233149 - 03/25/12 09:04 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Quite frankly that's what I was afraid of. That's what explains H's behavior versus the complaints he cited. Take the complaints seriously and address them for yourself if you believe it will make you a better person, but don't go into it thinking that if you address all those complaints that H will come back.

So now H is conflicted, he knows what he is doing is wrong, and he's going to struggle to create rationalizations including blaming you for everything so that he doesn't feel like the bad guy.

He also knows he's out on a limb. The ideal for him is that he can see where this goes, have his fun, and when it doesn't work out, he can just come home to you and you will take him back.

You need to remove that safety net and make him believe that you won't be just waiting around -- that you are done crying, you have your own agenda, and you are going to pursue it. Make no accusatory or shaming comments, just act as if H's actions hold no sway over you.

Finally this is not a reflection on you and it is not a contest. OW id a fantasy and H is a fantasy to OW. Sooner or later reality will creep in. They don't see the real versions of each other, but they will!

I would not go on that date. While OW is involved there is much higher chance of making your sitch worse than better. Make him miss you and wonder what you are up to.

Finally, I really recommend talking to a telephone coach on this site. I know you said you can't afford it, but it's much cheaper than divorce, will make you feel better, and can give you better guidance.

Take good care of yourself, you are not alone.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2233158 - 03/25/12 10:01 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
This post is going to be long... wow, where to start...

Accuracy, I was about to respond to your first post to me regarding the date saying that I don't know whether OW is really an issue. That my H is the type of person that doesn't do those kinds of things... blah, blah, blah. And then my mom came downstairs and turned on a movie and so I decided to take a break from the computer and watch the movie with her.

5 min into the movie, one of my best friends calls and asks me how I'm doing and how things are going with H. I immediately have this weird feeling. I said we are ok, why? She then states that her husband's cousin lives across the street from OW. The cousin sent my friend a message on FB and my friend read it to me. It stated that she saw on my FB status that I was separated and that it wasn't any of her business but she just wanted to let her know that she sees my H's car outside OW's house all the time.

And one day she saw OW come outside in only her towel to get a bag out of my H's car. I had to have my friend read it again because my mind was so foggy by this point. I then had to immediately hang up and call my H.

I asked him how he was doing and then started to ask him if he was staying at OW's house. He said, no. I told him that someone saw OW come outside to his car to get something out of it in her towel and asked is this true? He then said, sort of. I then asked are you sleeping with her? He couldn't answer me. He was at work and told me he would call me back in 15 min. I just said, I guess you've made your decision and he said, no, I haven't. I will call you back.

Well, obviously after that moment my mind is going crazy and I'm freaking out. So I call his mom to ask her if he is coming home every night from work or not. And she said, yes. He's always here and he's always here in the morning. I don't know what to believe and start to think maybe it's a rumor or I'm jumping to conclusions, but I am freaking out.

H then calls on the other line and I answer. I ask him again if he's sleeping with her and he says, yes. I immediately go outside and start screaming and crying at him. Remember the neighbor I had the convo with about A's and women that work with our H's? She just happened to be sitting outside on her front porch talking on her phone and yells out to me, what's going on?

I am screaming and freaking out. I don't really remember much more of what was said on the phone but H then says, can I come talk to you? So I said yes. I ran over to the neighbor's house to tell her what was going on and then my mom comes outside and starts hugging me and telling me not to let him tell me he's sorry. Obviously, she is very hurt by this too.

I talk with them for a moment trying to pull my thoughts together and figure out what to say or do when he gets here. He pulls up and I get in his car and he starts to explain to me that he his miserable. He thought being with OW was going to make him happy because she had all the qualities that he wanted to see in me... motivated, gets things done, etc. But he soon realized once I started to leave him alone completely that he missed me. He missed his family.

He said at one point he thought he was falling in love with her but soon realized that he really wasn't in love with her at all. And he was so angry at himself for allowing himself to go there and he said he wanted to die everyday. He felt like he had destroyed everything and was so afraid to say anything to me because he was afraid of losing me. And so the purpose of going out to dinner was for him to fess up, so he says.

Apparently, the PA started in January and has been going on until this last Weds. I am still in shock by this. This person is not my H. And I kept telling him that. The H that I know would never do that to his W. And I'm telling you my H is one of those people that everybody loves. He's so well-rounded and willing to help anyone he can. This is was attracted me to him in the first place. He has always been so loyal and never lied.

Well, he lied to me so many times as I think back on our conversations regarding him and her. It is mind-blowing. He has hit rock bottom.

So he tells me that all he wants to do is end it. And he has no idea if I can ever forgive him. I ask him if this is really what he wants. Because part of me can't help but wonder how easy it would be for him to just ditch out on me again and go back to her. Apparently, she divorced her H 5 months ago and my H failed to mention that to me for fear of how I would react. And once that happened she pursued him even more because we were already separated.

Lovely, how a person can feel that it's perfectly ok to destroy a family for their own personal welfare. I hate her! He then told me that he will put our phones back together so I can see everything he's doing and he wants to be completely honest with me about everything. He will make it so he doesn't have to see her at work and he knows that once he tells her, she will want nothing to do with him anyway.

He also stated that in Nov. he tried to fill out divorce papers but couldn't do it. It didn't feel right to him. He feels so awful for everything he's put us through especially our kids because I had to change their schools when I moved in with my mom. He has noticed that things have not been the same for D6 at her new school. She used to be happy and excited to go and now she walks in very slowly and doesn't really care too much to be there. I have noticed this too.

He said he does want to be with me and wants to make this work. He wants us to find a place together and give our kids a stable place to live.

We have a CD that we made for our wedding that has all of our songs on it and my D6 loves to hear them. And she asks my H to listen to them all the time. He told me that he cries every time he hears them now.

I told him that he knows that I love him and would find it very hard to turn my back on him now. But I have a hard time knowing if he's going to do this to me again and I just don't know if I can go through that kind of pain again. I told him that he's going to have to show me by his actions that he wants this. I also told him that I've been very happy lately. I feel empowered because I have realized that I can be truly happy without him.

He told me that he was always so happy to see me recently. I always had a big smile on my face and he said it always made his day. (This is where the DBing helped even though our interactions were few and far between and very short, he saw the difference in me.)

So you see, this outcome is so bittersweet for me. It took my H sleeping with another woman to realize my worth in his life. It is sick and awful to think about and I know we have long roads ahead of us but quite honestly, I was not expecting him to be so sure about his feelings for me.

So for now, he is telling OW that it's over. And we will have to wait and see how the rest goes. I have the biggest headache from crying last night and not being able to sleep. I will update soon.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2233165 - 03/25/12 11:55 AM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2088
Ouch, as awful as that story is, that's a "storybook confession" from H that very few LBS's get. Congratulations on your DB work!
After my W's EA, even though we have reconciled she's never apologized or even acknowledged that what she did was wrong. That doesn't seem to happen much, so that's great news for your sitch!

Rebuilding your trust is a process that is often two steps forward and one step back and will be very hard on both of you.

I recommend you Google for "Affair Recovery", there are many web sites that spell out practices that will make your recovery easier for both of you. Two of the most important things are that (1) H must vow to go "no contact" with OW now and forever, including changing jobs if that's what it takes, and (2) H must provide complete transparency to you WRT phone, email, and travel schedule. Number 2 is not a permanent arrangement, just until you are able to rebuild your mutual trust.

Now, WRT H's affair. First of all, EVERY marriage has issues and weaknesses. This would still be an excellent time to evaluate your own contribution to the issues in the marriage. It's best if you don't look at the affair as "all H's fault", but instead look at it as a crisis in your marriage that you BOTH contributed to. If you view it that way, it's not all work H has to do to make it up to you, it's a shared challenge that you both need to strive to have a better marriage. I do believe you've started down this road, don't let H's confession be an excuse to give up your own changes -- keep working at it!

Also, remember that H is human, not some monster. If you can "normalize" H's affair it will help you to get to forgiveness. We all like attention from the opposite sex, we all like to feel attractive, we all like to feel wanted and needed, those forces have a very strong pull on all of us. If you were not completely satisfied with H, and you worked with an attractive man who you really got along well with, who made you laugh, and who made you feel good about yourself, it's reasonable to expect that you'd enjoy spending time with that person. If you then came home to H and he was involved with the kids, working on paying bills, and just not spending that much time with you, then OM may seem much more fun and interesting to be with by comparison. It's usually not a decision to be unfaithful, it's a slippery slope that people slide down an imperceptible amount each day until they realize they are way over the line and don't know how they got there. He didn't do it to hurt you, he made some bad mistakes, and he is human. This does not excuse him or say that it's ok, it just says that "it happens, we're human".

Three suggestions for you:

1) There is a good book called "After the Affair" that can help you navigate your path forward, I recommend it.

2) There is another book called "Why Good People Have Affairs" that may help you understand what's happened. Don't read that now, it's too soon, but maybe pick it up in 4-6 months.

3) You will need to establish with H a mutual "contract" about what exactly will be considered "over the line" going forward. You should agree that if either of you are feeling tempted, that you will talk about it openly and honestly and that it will be OK to do so. In terms of where that line is drawn, there are some excellent resources on Pat Love's website. Go to the "Downloads" section. There is a word document about what defines an "office spouse". Download that and review it. She also has some excellent questionnaires that you can work through together to help you to reconnect.

Good luck and let me know how else I can help.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014

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#2233166 - 03/25/12 12:02 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: Accuray]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Thank you, Accuracy. After I've had more time to think this morning I have had mixed emotions about everything so your post has really helped put things into perspective.

In regard to the troubles I contributed to our R, I did recognize those with H last night and told him it isn't the type of person I want to be. And we did discuss how the communication between us needs to change dramatically.

Thank you for the tips, I will definitely be looking into those books and I will continue posting for further support. Wow, I am exhausted!!
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



Top
#2233170 - 03/25/12 12:35 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: jks]
hopingandpraying Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 283
I am so sorry that you found that out. It is good that your H apologized to you and is willing to work things out and has stated his love for you! That is also a positive.

I understand where you're coming from that you have so many mixed emotions about the PA. I, as of right now, don't know yet if I can get over my H's PA. However, stay strong and if you want the marriage to work, you have to forgive and yes, like accuray said...figure out what you contributed to the M. It looks like you've already begun to do that, which is great!

I really hope things work out for you and your H.
_________________________
M: 27 H: 28 T: 8 yrs M: 6 yrs
Sep: 2/18/12 (I have no feelings for you!)
EA/PA Uncovered: 2/26/12
H introduces OW to his fam: June
H moves ALL stuff out: July

I'm living my truth without your lies..

Top
#2233260 - 03/25/12 10:47 PM Re: Needing some guidance... [Re: hopingandpraying]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Having a rough night... the reality of H's affair is hitting me. He hasn't really contacted me at all today. He said he would be ending things with OW but I can't help but worry that he might have gone over to her house and ended up sleeping with her again. If so, I'm pretty sure I can't trust him anymore. And I don't know if I want this R. He has tainted it so badly that it may be impossible for me to get over. I know I just need to talk to him again but I am not going to pursue whatsoever. He needs to prove to me that HE wants to work on this. This [censored]!!
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



Top
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