What do I do next? Part 3

[Accuray]

Hi Luvhurts49, I was thinking about you the other day wondering how things are going. Unfortunately I think that as long as OM is involved you're going to be fighting against the current. Even if you do get W to go to a couples communication class with you, she's still not viewing you as a couple right now, so she's not going to be coming in committed, you know?

There's nothing wrong with throwing a hail mary pass, but know that a lot of what she's saying are just excuses. She had an opportunity to get involved with OM and she decided to take it. What she's telling you now is mainly just going to be justifications for what she's done, so responding to those complaints or sentiments isn't going to get you anywhere.

She's going to re-write history so that she's comfortable with her actions. You don't have to participate in that fantasy.

I'm very sorry things haven't gotten any better, that sux, it's so difficult and hard to understand. I don't know how you're doing financially but I would renew my recommendation to speak with a DB coach.

Accuray

[luvhurts49]

Well, I took the kids to the park yesterday and asked the W if she wanted to go along and she said no, that she was too tired. I asked her if she wanted me to text her when the kids and I are going to leave to get dinner and she said sure.

So we get done at the part and I texted the W to see if she wanted to go with us to get something to eat. She said sure, so I swung by her dad's house (where she is staying) to pick her up.

Dinner went fine. I had a hard time not wanting to reach out to her, but I didn't. She complained a bit about money and her car that keeps breaking down.

After dinner we all went out to get some clothes for the kids since I don't have much in the way of summer clothes for them. The W helped me pick out some clothes and stuff for the boys which was nice.

After all that, I dropped her back off at her dad's house. She gave the boys hugs and kisses, and I gave her a hug and whispered into her ear that I missed her. I pulled back and she said, "unfortunately, I don't" and went inside.

In three short words, she literally destroyed me. I know she loves me, I know she cares about me, and I'm pretty sure that with all things being equal, she would prefer to be together than apart, but what can I do to help her miss me? I haven't had hardly any contact with her since October and with the D and custody issues in full effect, things will only become more bitter. I could use to encouraging words. Will spending time with her and the kids help her miss being with me? What can I do?

[Rick1963]

"but what can I do to help her miss me?"

I guess you can only miss something when you don't see it. And we want things that we can't have. Telling her that you miss her is persuing. So she does not miss you. Accuray is right if you can get a DB coach go for it.

[MrBond]

Did you read DR or DB? Stick to the 37 rules.

[25yearsmlc]

Well, I took the kids to the park yesterday and asked the W if she wanted to go along and she said no, that she was too tired. I asked her if she wanted me to text her when the kids and I are going to leave to get dinner and she said sure.

So we get done at the part and I texted the W to see if she wanted to go with us to get something to eat. She said sure, so I swung by her dad's house (where she is staying) to pick her up.

why invite her? To pursue....and how'd that go? Did you get the DB books or read the 37 rules Sandi assembled?

While You say the dinner was "fine"
- if the goal of slowly building friendship which could possibly lead to more later, then you should have left it at that.

instead of building on the bonding experience of a relaxed dinner together

You grew immediate expecations AND
YOU PRESSED HER BY TELLING HER YOU MISSED HER...as if she didn't know.

Sweetie, You have to actually DO the DB program to have it work. You cannot do it for 3 days or weeks and then backslide and wonder what went wrong,

If she felt safe enough to have dinner with you then maybe progress HAD been made.

But then you blew it b/c you leaped from that basic comfort around you to wanting more then.


Dinner went fine. I had a hard time not wanting to reach out to her, but I didn't. She complained a bit about money and her car that keeps breaking down.

Don't try to FIX

(b/c if often comes off to us as a man wanting the woman to shut up, b/c hey, he "solved" the problem by telling her what to do OR not to care about it so much. Now move onto another topic...)

But many times women need/want to be heard so, just listen and validate that she feels stressed or concerned about her car's safety & that you can see why.


After dinner we all went out to get some clothes for the kids since I don't have much in the way of summer clothes for them. The W helped me pick out some clothes and stuff for the boys which was nice.

After all that,

after all what? A few hours without conflict? Man you have to just let that be.


I dropped her back off at her dad's house. She gave the boys hugs and kisses, and I gave her a hug and whispered into her ear that I missed her. I pulled back and she said, "unfortunately, I don't" and went inside.

In three short words, she literally destroyed me. I know she loves me, I know she cares about me, and I'm pretty sure that with all things being equal, she would prefer to be together than apart,

why do you believe these^^^ things? (I am not denying them but want to know what empirical evidence you have of it.) Don't make too much of her words...you asked for it really.

Instead of challenging her choices (which you pursuing her DOES) stop it. The more you challenge her choices

the more she defends them and the more she stands by them. Back off so she can see what she's creating without you hovering over her to get her back.

but what can I do to help her miss me?

Be less available obviously. If availability were what she wanted from you, she would be back by now.

She has to believe 2 things to come back to you.

First, SHE must believe that marriage to you can be different/better than before.

And she must believe she might lose you.

What are YOU DOING (not words but actions) to SHOW her that these things?


I haven't had hardly any contact with her since October and with the D and custody issues in full effect, things will only become more bitter.

why? Just let the L's do their part which is the ugly stuff so you are not associated directly with it.


I could use to encouraging words. Will spending time with her and the kids help her miss being with me? What can I do?

you just spent time with her and the kids and then you pursued her and she said she did not miss you.

So is your question "Should I do more of what does NOT work?"

You know the answer. But you are lonely, so you wish we'd say "go after her."
Then you'd feel you are "Doing something" but that is a control thing. You don't control her.

You cannot "make her miss" you. You can only give her something to miss, by having good times with the kids

(that she is NOT a part of, b/c they will tell her what joyful fun you had and she will know she missed it) and

no woman is unmoved by loving interactions between her children and their father.

Be the best dad you can be --for them, for you and for the r you have with their mother.

The only cure I have for your loneliness other than time with your kids is GAL, and I really want to hear how YOU ARE GAL.

I will read ALL of your posts before I comment further, but based on just these past few and Bond's words (and others)

you need to stay with the basics and master them.

Consistent change + sufficient time = change our spouse can believe in.

[25yearsmlc]

LH

I read your whole thread (all 3.)

When you two separated the first 2 times, did YOU change? She SAID you didn't or that your changes did not last.

Also when she first left this time you eventually admitted that you believed "she'd eventually realize HER mistake and come home. "

Too bad you believed that b/c it means you avoided digging deep to figure out what YOU could work on to change YOU.

You conceded that you have an unfortunate need to be right, even while then saying "and I usually am"...and seeing no irony in that comment. (More on the need to be right later...) You said "When someone meets me for the first time, they either say that I'm shy or that I'm an a$$hole. I am naturally argumentative and always have a need to be right which leads some people to think that I'm also arrogant or full of myself. I'm currently working on these as part of my 180's, but I do appreciate the sentiment though"...

You said "before w left" You were critical and impatient with her and the kids...and that you had a temper with them.

You also say you have seen your 12 y/o son act this way too.

You were also depressed a lot.

You made a lot of comments about working on those negative traits of yours and even getting an IC to help you b/c

you admit that its NOT just the marital relationship in which you find yourself disliked, (see above)
I suspect by "shy" you mean quiet and possibly unfriendly...

so these are things that are NOT YOUR W's responsibility at all, AND you have known of them for years.

I think you get that they bugged and hurt her more than you realize AND those traits hurt YOU and your life too. It's all your stuff to work on AND that is good news

Why? B/c

Then you are not powerless.

If you were a perfect h and dad AND still your w left you , then you'd be screwed.


Finding our flaws to work on to improve is empowering. Do you Get that?

Then in November you said "If there were an OM, at least I'd know it was not MY fault...it'd be b/c of HER"..

and that is a remarkably inaccurate statement. AND DOES NOT HELP YOU...

The OM is a symtom not a cause. Get that.

Your wife is No serial cheater so this is her first A....why now? B/C she does not believe
That you are different and that marriage to you could be better.

What I am hearing is you deflecting any responsibility (or minimizing it,) from yourself (even after revealing a lot of things anyone would need to work on and that any spouse would find tough to cope with or be around...)

It's like you have amnesia about your role in this, and that your anger is paramount and self righteous.

Hey I know you are also very wounded and I am sorry..but that anger is hurting YOU more than anyone else, except maybe your boys...

You said

when one party does not uphold their end of the contract, how come there isn't any laws that can be used to punish the guilty party? For example, my W had an A, thus she is guilty of infidelity and should be punished by the law.
----
I didn't decide to have an A, I didn't leave my M, I didn't decide to do this to my kids. I'm not saying that I couldn't have done things better, but I'm not the bad guy here and she certainly isn't righteous (but should be guilty).



Wow...how's that judgemental approach working for you?

Of course it's not! And unfortunately you can tell us all how much calmer you are now and how you are less irritable with or around her,

but what I read is pursuit and repeating what does not work

and self righteousness, anger, and the NEED TO BE DECLARED "RIGHT"...but soooo not happy.

I cannot imagine your w believing you could ever get past this to work on you.

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

This behavior and wording of yours MUST show and it must remind her of the past separations....in which you deflected from genuine introspection and growth b/c that might mean you were at least partly responsible and..."wrong"...

Lose the scorecard and wake up to the reality that in HER MIND/HEART---YOU broke your vows to her many times over.

In HER MIND/HEART you pushed her into the arms of OM...


Do not miss the chance of a life time here, to become the best man YOU can become and to show your boys how to do that.

Enough about OM. Stay in your sandbox and work on YOU and ONLY YOU....

Take Accuracy's advice

(or any of the other great posters here who help YOU keep the focus on the one person you can control---YOU)
Accuracy said==

"Forgetting about W for a while, what are you doing for yourself? Have you figured out any GAL activities? I know you are spending quality time with your kids and that is giving you some enjoyment, but when they are not around, what are you doing with yourself? As I mentioned previously, I bought an inexpensive road bike on Craigslist and racked up tons of miles, and picked up an inexpensive electric guitar and taught myself to play. Both of those were things I felt really good about that I could do on my schedule and didn't require me to commute or spend money on an ongoing basis. They were both also very inexpensive one-time investments, and if I sell them I'll probably get back what I paid.

What are you doing for you?"

I want to hear the same...what are your GAL and 180s? No more resistance to it.

Meet new people, make real friends, and keep them by being the new you.

That's attractive, btw AND it will be a noticable change in YOU that your w will hear of..do Not point it out or highlight it or it'll look like a tactic as opposed to real changes in you.

IMO-- you probably can turn this around, but only by focussing on you and the flaws you have. AND ONLY YOU...now is not the time to discuss what YOU NEED or want from her b/c she wants out....she is not here posting...


it's not about OM...

it's about YOU and becoming a man only a fool would leave.

[25yearsmlc]

here's a post that the DB moderator's posted in "the classics" that many LBSers have benefitted from reading...

see if and how any fits your sitch...


FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that...

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.

So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win. (Or you make it all about OM and nothing to do with how you treated her).

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
_________________________
Me: 32, H: 32

[25yearsmlc]

LH

just b/c there are 2 x 4s in my posts to you, please don't lose sight of what I also said, which is that

you probably CAN turn this around.

The 2 x 4s are meant for you to change your course with a big 180 in attitude.

I see that as the only way to get a reconciliation possible.

good luck

[luvhurts49]

I've taken the last couple of weeks to reflect on things that have been said and advice that has been give from friends, family, and from those on this forum. I've had to take a long hard look at things that I've been doing that probably have been detrimental in getting the one's I love back into my life.

25years, you're right, I have been pursuing and doing everything that doesn't work time and time again. Do I want to be doing these things, no, of course not, yet I keep doing them.

I know that today I am a better person and a better father to my kids than I was 8 months ago and I would also like to believe that I would be a better husband to my W than I was 8 months ago. But I continue to have my failings...I continue my need to be right...that everything needs to be explained and that I must have the truth. I do see the flaws in these. Yes I would rather be happy than right. I would rather be happy than having to know everything. Yet I still find myself falling into this rut time and time again, not knowing how to stay out of the rut permanently.

My heart screams in pain for my lost marriage, wife, and lost time with my children. I try to find things to do that keep my mind off of my problems like hanging out with friends, going to comedy clubs, and simply trying to spend time out of the house. But at the end of the day, everything comes back...a flood of emotion hits me like a freight train and I stand there frozen, not being able to move out of the way.

I know I need to let my W live her life...give herself a chance to hopefully see the man I am becoming. I know I need to stop trying to control the situation and stop doing things that I know don't work. I need to give my W time to see what she wants, to give herself a chance to miss me, to desire me, to want me, and hopefully to love me again.

Everything sounds so easy, but it isn't...it is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I find myself rushing things, trying to find a shortcut, but it's not there. I find myself in so much pain that I'm literally frozen and all I can do is cry and profess my love for my wife, children, my marriage, and everything else that I've lost to an empty room with only the ghosts and memories of out past together. I feel like I'm at a funeral that is lasting forever...where the pain never fades, the lose never subsides, and the misery continues on forever. I am stuck.

[luvhurts49]

Everything is happening so fast. I still can't believe it's been almost 8 months since I've been able to hold my W. Why is time moving so fast? D is in full effect, GAL for kids just starting and money is running out fast...hell, it's been gone for some time, but the debt is piling up.

My W keeps telling me that I need to move on...that what I feel for her will never be returned, that I have to forget about her. I just don't know how to let go of something that is as important to me as she it. For me, it's like cutting off my own arm...I just can't do it.

I'm a wreck. I'm depressed. I feel worthless. I do not know how to get out of this. I try to get out and have fun. I try to lift my spirits by see more of my friends, but it doesn't last and I just can't get my mind off of my W.