PC, I've been reading your posts. I can relate to your sitch (or perhaps your wife's sitch moreso.) I can also relate to your Christian beliefs.
You wanted some more women to chime in. You might regret asking that, in my case. But your W's not asking for advice, so we only have YOU to work on. One of the principles of DB is making yourself into a man that only a fool would leave. Are you that man? REALLY? Have you gotten the plank out of your own eyes so that you can see clearly the speck in hers?
My sitch: My H claims to be a devout Christian. He goes to church every Sunday, sometimes two services/two churches; sometimes also on Saturday night; Bible study once a week besides; men's fraternity; etc. He could talk just as good of a game as you do. And then there's his REAL life. I've witnessed his pornography, his lying, his annihilation of my character to his family behind my back, his email exchanges with his college sweetheart, his valuing his siblings and kids (my steps) over me, defending them and attacking me, his irresponsibility with finances, etc. He beats his chest about being God's ordained "leader of the family," then runs away with his tail between his legs whenever an issue arises, leaving me to carry it on my own.
I've read your beginning post again, after reading your most recent. What I pulled from it was: you lived together and had sex before marriage; you had a child before marriage; you got married in the courthouse rather than a church; she confronted you about her feelings but you chose not to do anything different; you pushed her away at times when she attempted to be intimate because you were angry with her; you find it difficult to do your 180's.
I appreciate your honesty in your first post, and I'm not trying to wring you out to dry for your known sins. But from my perspective, it all sounds very hypocritical. You speak so strongly of being a devoted Godly man, but I'm not seeing that played out in your day-to-day life. Even the "effort" you're putting into cleaning the house and taking care of your son comes off as being a real chore. You have an issue with doing the cleaning, and you've mentioned your resentment. This is not a Godly response (re: prodigal son.) This is also an issue I have with my H -- my position is that if it's something you'd still have to do if your W wasn't in the picture at all, then I don't feel like it's something that you get kudos for doing now.
From my experience with my H, "talking" about being a Godly man when you're not living a Godly life is a real turn-off, to both the relationship and a spiritual life.
Granted, your W is being very immature and irresponsible. She is not leading what anyone would describe as a Christian life. Though I doubt she's even making that claim herself. I'm wondering if you helped create that sitch? Your W was asking for affection and you were denying it because of her going out, then you simply re-enforced her desire to go out where people were attentive and kind to her. So she did that more. So you got more angry. So she did it more. Etc., etc.
So, some specifics...
If you don't want your S going to MIL's, then set him up for scheduled daycare, either commercial or other arrangements. You can't fix FIL/MIL's problems.
Stay in the master bed. If she doesn't like it she can sleep somewhere else. If S is in the bed, too, (maybe he shouldn't be? That's an intimacy killer.) then gently pick him up and put him in his own bed/bedroom, then return to the master bed yourself. She can sleep somewhere else if she wants.
As for chores, if I had been carrying the majority of the load for most of our relationship, and H started doing "his share," I could really care less. All that would do is keep us at status quo and not make things worse. But when you're already at the bottom, what difference does that make? Are you familiar with the concept of love banks, with emotional deposits and withdrawals? You are highly overdrawn, and simply making the minimum payment is not going to help your sitch.
Bottomline, I feel like you're spending too much time focusing on your W's behavior and wrong-doings, and not focused enough on your own. What is your REAL motivation for getting her back? What are your 180's? Other than doing chores, how is "focusing on God" playing itself out in your day-to-day life?
Thank you!!!! I do not regret your honesty! I need it.
I hope I don't miss responding to all your valuable info but I thought that I already laid out my imperfections. And what I've learned about the things I was not doing as a Godly husband. I admit, complete failure in the most important aspect of simply loving my wife. From what you've mentioned, I am not the same as your husband. Far from him. What I have not done as a husband, LOVE my wife. What I did do, was everything else, granted it doesn't matter much if they aren't receiving what they want. But I have handled mostly everything in 5yrs of our relationship as far as the decision making is concerned. ALL the finances, ALL the household decisions, ALL the financial planning, ALL the choices in purchases, heck, I even decorated our home. Lol. I always pleaded with her to take some of the mental load off of me by paying some bills or deciding on some things, etc. She never did mostly, always leaving things up to me.
My faith was not so strong until one year ago. Before then I simply lived life as most. No church or anything. But during my spiritual growth I have never judged or criticized her or forced any belief on her. Going to church does not guarantee a place in heaven for anyone. And getting married in a church does not guarantee it either. We were married by our Pastor. Doesn't matter where because the Church is not a building, it is a body of people. I've been focusing of her through this board in an attempt to get advice about how to deal with her. And have gradually been learning thanks to you all that its not about her, its all about me! Deal with me and all else will follow.
Yes I do talk a good game I've been told. Lol. But I know I am imperfect and am very quick to admit my mistakes so that I can strive harder to make better. Even preachers, pastors, priests, are very imperfect so will you tell them to get the plank out of their own eyes? No one is perfect. Its how you deal with things. None of the things you mentioned correctly explains what a devout Christian is. Which is why we have so many people choosing to not go to church because of the people they see who are supposedly Godly people. Plain and simple a devout Christian always reflect the fruits of the spirit: Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. You might not see them all but most of them. Especially LOVE, for God is Love and if someone claims to be Godly they have no choice but to love. Don't have to like people but are required to love if Christ is in you. Even those who hate you, use you abuse you, whatever, God is still Love, and when hate dwells within you for any reason it is directly opposite of God.
I felt like she would be a fool to leave me before, part of the reason why I didnt think she would leave which also was part of the reason why I didnt try as hard to keep her. But since the split and the dream i had, I realize the only thing i was completely doing wrong was not loving her. I've been dealing with my anger and not holding anything in so I've felt better about things. Of course there's other small things but they never caused any issues and were quickly resolved.
With all the issues I mentioned about her and some that I've even not mentioned, I have been by her side always! Never left, never turned my back on her, was with her through countless nights of crying, and feeling depressed, and worrying about her parents, and nightmares from past memories, and not to mention the ATTITUDE that she has, VERY fiesty and snappy. No patience with me or our son, and this was shown several times daily. I might not have had all the answers but I definitely never ran away. Just simply felt like I was there with her through all the issues she had but with the ONE issue I had she abandoned me. As mentioned before I knew I was being as affectionate as she wanted. Didn't know why but I knew. Even asked her many times to be patient with me and help me, to no avail. If she wanted to be intimate it was either her way or NO way. And this actually applied to other things as well.
Use to find it difficult at first but not anymore with the 180s thanks to many of you. I do love your honest wording on the things I've written. The chores, yes, only come off as sounding as such. I do not do them in vain or with her in mind, but because they need to be done simply. It is very effortless for me to do chores. It only takes all of 5mins to do those dishes and 10-15mins to clean other areas. So forgive me if it came off sounding like a burden for me but it is far from that. I have lived on my own for over 10 yrs, and grew up with 5 sisters, so I'm accustomed to taking care of myself without effort. I only mentioned the dishes with hopes of someone explaining more about "her" actions. Again, I eventually realized its not about her. Lol.
Also with taking care of son, again very effortless for me! I'm just fine with him. Only mentioned these things with hopes of someone explaining why "she" doesn't feel inclined to be more responsible. Again, its not about her but me. Just get frustrated with seeing him have a strong desire for love and attention and affection and her refusing to give it to him. Sounds a lot like me I realize. So I definitely understand her pain.
What I mentioned about resentment was that I subconsciously resented her. Keep in mind, I had NO CLUE that I didn't have enough self control to not allow my anger to affect how I treat her or anyone else for that matter. Anger seeps into cracks though like a gas or liquid. I thought I was 'tough enough' to handle my disappointments with her. I was WRONG. So yes even my subconscious anger/resentment was ungodly. I know that. But as I mentioned before, we are not expected by God to be perfect Christians, hence Jesus Christ. The entire reason he died was to pay the price for the sins God already knew we would be committing.
I dont believe I requested any kudos for the actions I've exhibited over the past few months. But self improve is self improvement. Regardless of if it was something that would need to be done anyway. Fact still remains that she usually did the dishes, I eventually became complacent with that which caused me to not have a strong desire to do them anymore. And breaking out of that 'funk' is self improvement. And not easy to do after 5yrs of habitually not doing something. Kudos or high regard is taken out of context anyway these days, just like LOVE. Kudos nowadays are given to someone's facebook update about eating fish for dinner! Lol, they get tons of likes, etc for that but it isn't ok to be proud of breaking a bad habit?
Living a Godly life lies in the eyes of the beholder. As far as I'm concerned believing in Jesus, the son of God, and that he died for our sins and rose again, then being sure to repent of your sins and trangressions both know and unknown, then studying the word of God, fasting, going to church as often as possible to fellowship with fellow believers, and prayer, then applying what God says to every situation in your life as much as you can, so much so that when people see or think about you the following descriptions about you come to mind: Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. THIS is what I believe to be a devout Christian and living a Godly life. Being perfect, not making mistakes, not losing focus, not falling down, being flawless, none of these things are required to be living a Godly life. Living a Godly life is about being made whole by balancing life's obstacles with the word of God.
You are correct my wife is not making that claim anymore, has stoppped going to church as mentioned earlier, and is in full rebellion mode against God, myself, and anyone else who conflicts with her decision.
And YES of course I helped to create our separation. Never said otherwise. But at the end of the day everyone has to answer to God ALONE. I cannot tell God that my wife forced me to rebel against him. Same with her, I am not ultimately responsible for any of her actions and the way she responds. She is just as I. Her going out and all the other displeasing actions all fall under my feeling of being disrespected by her. Understand after separation that her disrespecting me is ultimately disrespecting God who commands a wife to revere(respect) her husband and my refusal to LOVE her was ultimately my refusal to LOVE God since God is LOVE. So I have learned a lot from this ordeal and actually thank God for allowing our separation so I can become the man he meant for me to be. Would not have otherwise.
I don't mind him going to her moms. She takes good care of him. Just 'wanted' him to have more time with his mom but if she is refusing to them again, thats on her. I do not believe I am making minimum payments as you said. Most of my self improvements are things my wife will never see because as I mentioned before we hardly EVER see each other. My day starts with gym, food, then work at 7:30am, get off at 4:30pm, go get son from her moms, she is already back at work by the time I get to her moms. Go home with son, or to park, or to my moms, or back to gym, or to church, then go home if out, eat, put him to sleep between 8-10pm, then I fall alseep between 9-10:30pm Mon-Fri. And she gets home after 10pm nightly if she comes home at all. On Sats she sleep till afternoon, I usually get up and go somewhere with son, go home a couple hours later where i usually see her shortly, and same on Sunday. So all the things I'm doing to better myself and strengthen my faith she never sees, and I don't care if she does anymore.
Yes I use to consume myself with all her behavior but that ended long ago. Yes I'm very observant so I still notice/keep up with her behavior but for one main purpose though. To document for custody purposes.
Focusing on God helps me a lot!!! It helped me to be friendly last Saturday when I ran into her at the mall with our son and 3 guys that I didn't know, it helps me to not cry when my son wakes up at night asking for mom, it helps me to not cry when she ignores him to talk on the phone and get on facebook, God helps me when sometimes I'm just waking up at 5am to go to gym and she's just getting home even during the week when I thought she was sleep with our son. Its helps me to remain calm when she tells me that I'm a piece of crap, and that's why my dad was killed because he and his son is worthless. It helps to remain faithful to her even now, after 5yrs. He helps me to remain calm when she talks about me on the phone in our home to her friends. Focusing on God is my only option my friend. I couldn't make it without him. I would have gone crazy long ago. My 180s mostly included nothing but continuing to allow God to lead my life, improving myself in all aspects, and being there for my son even more so now. Training him up to be a Godly man of Love, Respect, and Honesty, among other things. There's a saying that if you do not know any better then you cannot do any better. Knowledge is something I've been on a daily quest for and has been crucial to my self improvement. And constant prayer for wisdom.
I understand emotional deposits. I am not highly overdrawn though. I understood her, kept commitments, was very clear on what I expected, as was she, showed integrity, and as mentioned earlier always corrected my mishaps when known. Attention to the little things was not so superb though as you know...
But I so much appreciate your response. One of the big reasons I wanted more women to chime in.. I will be praying for you as well.
p.s. Still processing this not leaving the bed stuff. Have yet been able to line up this idea with the word of God. So bear with me on that. Lol.
Also, @Chatter and others. A big reason I originally started focusing so much on her after the separation was because of her depression history. Which I have finally determined that she is very likely as Chatter mentioned, Bipolar, and in the mania stage for almost two months, have been praying much that her depression stage doesn't shake things up too much when it hits. The problem I have is that obviously me or anyone else cannot convince, or suggest to her to get counseling or seek help. She has not taken any of her anxiety/depression pills since Feb. And does not believe anything is wrong with her. Prayers please.
But your W's not asking for advice, so we only have YOU to work on. One of the principles of DB is making yourself into a man that only a fool would leave. Are you that man? REALLY? Have you gotten the plank out of your own eyes so that you can see clearly the speck in hers?