So, I’m sure this post will get plenty of views, but I’m not sure about the responses.
Since having my 1st DB Coaching session with Cheryl, I’ve been thinking about sandi2’s 37 rules.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
The rules are normally prefaced by this: The following list is credited to Sandi2- another wise elder on these boards, who successfully reconciled her M with DB efforts. Most of us have copied this list and refer to it OFTEN... especially when we are at our lowest. Most of this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the point. Our instincts are controlled my our emotions, this list is designed to help us *act* rationally instead of *re-acting* irrationally. Find a seat and make sure your safety bar is tight a secure, this roller coaster gets pretty rough and is going to last a while.
I will say that for the last couple of months, these rules probably saved my life. It helped me get the focus off of our M and on me just trying to live, and figure out my part in this mess. But my question is, once you’re relatively back in the saddle mentally, how do you bridge the 37 rules with trying to reconcile your marriage.
Some of my questions are:
-Surely at some point, a R conversation has to happen. If the WAS never says anything about it or mentions anything about it, should the LBS never bring it up?
-If it looks like the WAS may be thawing even just a little bit, why can’t the LBS try something that puts the olive branch out there to see what will happen – even if it’s somewhat pursuing?
-Don’t send TMs or emails throughout the day. Again, if you sense that your WAS is thawing even the slightest why not send one? *shrug*
Granted, I don’t think I’m anywhere near a R at this point. I just see lots of people getting 2x4s for pursuing their WAS. My DB coach basically told me to pursue my H, even if it’s at a slow pace.
If I do something, and H responds positively, I get the don’t have expectations thing. At what point SHOULD I have expectations?
Again, nowhere close to R my marriage, but I am trying to figure out a balance here.
So, I’m sure this post will get plenty of views, but I’m not sure about the responses.
Since having my 1st DB Coaching session with Cheryl, I’ve been thinking about sandi2’s 37 rules. the rules were ASSEMBLED by Sandi, based on DB principles and other's modifications...she can't be held responsible for them...but I understand your confusion.
For instance, If your marital issue was that you were too cold or uninvolved, the backing off and not pursuing might be the opposite of what you need to do.
These "rules" are GENERALLY applicable, not always.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
The rules are normally prefaced by this: The following list is credited to Sandi2- another wise elder on these boards, who successfully reconciled her M with DB efforts. Most of us have copied this list and refer to it OFTEN... especially when we are at our lowest. Most of this seems counter-intuitive, but that's the point. Our instincts are controlled my our emotions, this list is designed to help us *act* rationally instead of *re-acting* irrationally. Find a seat and make sure your safety bar is tight a secure, this roller coaster gets pretty rough and is going to last a while.
I will say that for the last couple of months, these rules probably saved my life. It helped me get the focus off of our M and on me just trying to live, and figure out my part in this mess. But my question is, once you’re relatively back in the saddle mentally, how do you bridge the 37 rules with trying to reconcile your marriage.
Some of my questions are: your questions are about Piecing, mostly. Or how to know when it's happening. But the 37 "rules" are for newcomers...
-Surely at some point, a R conversation has to happen. If the WAS never says anything about it or mentions anything about it, should the LBS never bring it up?
-If it looks like the WAS may be thawing even just a little bit, why can’t the LBS try something that puts the olive branch out there to see what will happen – even if it’s somewhat pursuing? Not a bad idea. But by then you are not a newcomer.
-Don’t send TMs or emails throughout the day. Again, if you sense that your WAS is thawing even the slightest why not send one? *shrug*
Granted, I don’t think I’m anywhere near a R at this point. I just see lots of people getting 2x4s for pursuing their WAS. My DB coach basically told me to pursue my H, even if it’s at a slow pace. ALWAYS TRY YOUR DB COACHES ADVICE and not anything that contradicts it.
IF and when you have tried it for long enough to see no results, then ask your DB coach what to do. I had 18 sessions that changed my life. They were specific to MY situation which is why the coaches are so helpful
If I do something, and H responds positively, I get the don’t have expectations thing. At what point SHOULD I have expectations?
if and when enough baby steps or positive signs are present. But that won't require a lot of guesswork. If they are ready to work on the r, you will see them WORKING on it...react warmly to their outreach.
Don't "teach them a lesson" b/c that's not a spouses job. Life shows them the consequences of their choices, not us.
Again, nowhere close to R my marriage, but I am trying to figure out a balance here.
sometimes finding that balance is darn hard. Self respect, vs false pride and wounded ego...
boundary setting, versus punitive behavior...
Ask yourself if your action or words are really coming from a place of love or health
or a place of pain or anger. That will help guide you.
And ask if your contemplated act or wording will help you in your goals, or push you away from them.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
-Surely at some point, a R conversation has to happen. If the WAS never says anything about it or mentions anything about it, should the LBS never bring it up?
Right now you are not in CONTROL of this R, you can TEST the waters from time to time with NO EXPECTATIONS. When you are back in CONTROL you will be starting a NEW relationship the old one is NOW dead.
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
-If it looks like the WAS may be thawing even just a little bit, why can’t the LBS try something that puts the olive branch out there to see what will happen – even if it’s somewhat pursuing?
This is a touch and go. I suggest waiting for the real thing. If you bake a cake and it is half done, how do you think it will taste?
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
-Don’t send TMs or emails throughout the day. Again, if you sense that your WAS is thawing even the slightest why not send one? *shrug*
If you can do it with NO EXPECTATIONS and when you touch the stove that the cake is baking in that does not look hot, don't be surprised if you get burned. Sure go ahead.
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
Granted, I don’t think I’m anywhere near a R at this point. I just see lots of people getting 2x4s for pursuing their WAS. My DB coach basically told me to pursue my H, even if it’s at a slow pace.
Their are different types of pursuit and distance. Pursue in the types that you have been distancing for your whole maairage, but do not pursue if it is the same behavior that has pushed him away.
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
If I do something, and H responds positively, I get the don’t have expectations thing. At what point SHOULD I have expectations?
NEVER!
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
Again, nowhere close to R my marriage, but I am trying to figure out a balance here.
Thanks 25 & Cadet. I wasn't holding sandi responsible, just calling them her rules like everybody else does. Maybe we can have a contest to rename the list.
I want to read this over again before I ask any more questions.
Thanks 25 & Cadet. I wasn't holding sandi responsible, just calling them her rules like everybody else does. Maybe we can have a contest to rename the list.
No biggie - it's just that a lot of people seem to argue the rules when they are hard. Or blow them off.
I feel like she's having to explain/defend them as if she authored them, when all she did was assemble, modify and write them out as a favor to us.
I think I will call them "37 Newcomer's DB rules, as assembled by Sandi"...??
I want to read this over again before I ask any more questions.
makes sense
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
[quote=RoRoinMD]-If it looks like the WAS may be thawing even just a little bit, why can’t the LBS try something that puts the olive branch out there to see what will happen – even if it’s somewhat pursuing?
This is a touch and go. I suggest waiting for the real thing. If you bake a cake and it is half done, how do you think it will taste?
Are you saying wait for your S to come to you? I want to make sure I understand what “waiting for the real thing” means.
Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
Granted, I don’t think I’m anywhere near a R at this point. I just see lots of people getting 2x4s for pursuing their WAS. My DB coach basically told me to pursue my H, even if it’s at a slow pace.
Their are different types of pursuit and distance. Pursue in the types that you have been distancing for your whole maairage, but do not pursue if it is the same behavior that has pushed him away.
This needs to be said more often or maybe in a different way. All newbies get is DO NOT PURSUE. PERIOD.
Granted, I don’t think I’m anywhere near a R at this point. I just see lots of people getting 2x4s for pursuing their WAS. My DB coach basically told me to pursue my H, even if it’s at a slow pace. ALWAYS TRY YOUR DB COACHES ADVICE and not anything that contradicts it.
IF and when you have tried it for long enough to see no results, then ask your DB coach what to do. I had 18 sessions that changed my life. They were specific to MY situation which is why the coaches are so helpful
I'm assuming a couple of weeks is not what you mean by long enough. LOL (j/k)
I need to set my own expecations with myself NOT to have any expectations. I've been doing really good about not expecting a response when I do something nice for H. But he hasn't really responded unfavorably either, so I guess that theory hasn't truly been tested.
