WHG: And Alice goes down the rabbit hole...

[workinghardguy]

Finally exercised again this morning... first time in almost two months, man it felt good. Got to bed later than planned last night due to convo with W. Woke up this morning and said, screw it, I'll just go to work early, I'll exercise tomorrow. And then that just seemed sad and depressing so I decided to go back to sleep... and then I thought if I do this today (a day without my S or kids in the house) I will do this every day I'm alone. So I forced my butt out of bed, put on my workout clothes and went for a two mile run. Not JB-level workout, but a good step in the right direction.

Had all the kids last night. It's still melancholy for me. The house is so alive and vibrant when they're all there. I started a new effort... asking each of them "What did you do today to make the world a better place?" It was neat to hear their answers. I got the idea after meeting Mark Schriever (son of Sargent Schriever) this past week in DC. I asked him how his dad, who was such a force for good in American life, also managed to create five amazing kids. He said every day his dad would ask him what he did today to make the world a better place, and he would expect an answer. I thought it was great so I'm trying it out.

W got home and we talked some. First time I'd seen her in a week. She is looking pretty harried and tired, then again she had worked 60 hours in five days. We figured out S's birthday plans and discussed some financial stuff. Then the topic turned to how things are going. She told me she worries about me. I told her not to, things are good. I told her I worry about her and asked if she was ok. She said she's really depressed and not eating. Said that she woke up the other morning and "felt too thin" and got scared. She has a history of anorexia so I'm worried for her, but nothing I can really do.

We discussed her court date this week with XH. She wants to ask the judge to nix the new arrangement and have SS and SD with her all week during the school year (as it has been for the past 8 years). I just listened and validated. At one point she asked me what I thought she should do. I told her she should listen to herself. She's their mother and knows what's best for kids.

I will admit it was damn hard to listen to her rail on how selfish and self-centered her XH is. How this is all about him and his needs. How he doesn't really worry about the kids or how all this will effect them. It was so hard to not make a comment or throw it back in her face. The lack of self-awareness is remarkable. She again asked my thoughts and I replied that I've learned it's best to keep it about the kids and their needs.

At one point she mentioned that her friend (who she either has or had feelings for) is coming to stay, with his son, at her place this weekend. She's farmed SD and S out to her mom and SS will be with me learning cold weather survival skills. Her friends have a music festival and this one friend is coming up for that. She was very adamant in telling me he is sleeping on the pull-out couch with his son. Umm... ok. You're a grown woman living on your own, do what you will. I won't deny that it hurt a little to hear, but it really is her life now.

The convos ended with her inviting me to go shopping with her on Wednesday to buy presents for S's birthday. I said yes. Seemed like a low-impact sort of thing.

Only cried a little bit when I left the house and headed to my place. Only cried a little when I got home. A lot less than the last time I did that routine.

I still miss SD and SS a lot. Once or twice a week suxx. Looking forward to hanging out with SS all weekend, even if we will be camping out in the snow

Tonight is Parent-Teacher conference for S. We are both attending together, and then I'm taking SS, SD, and S out for ice cream while W goes to SS's conference (with her XH).

[workinghardguy]

Had P/T conferences today. S is doing great in school and very smart. W was late for the conference. Somehow she didn't process that SS and SD get done with school at the same time as S's conference so she calls me all in a tizzy about not being able to be in two places at once. I wanted to ask her how the heck she didn't figure this out until five minutes before the conference but instead let it go. The funny part is this morning I was going to call/text my W and ask her how she was going to manage the kids getting out of school and getting to the conference. But I didn't because that's her problem to figure out. Guess she didn't really figure that out.

Took SD, S, and my niece out for ice cream while W went to SS's conference. Then had a work meeting tonight. Had to stop by her house on the way home to drop off backpacks and bags that had accidentally not been taken out of my van.

W tells me about SS's conference. Went pretty badly and SS is struggling greatly in school. This after being on honor roll from Sept - Dec. From Dec - Feb he's getting Ds and Cs. Hmmm... what happened around then? Wish I could figure it out. W posited tonight that maybe the breakup is affecting his academics... you think?

Went home after dropping stuff off and talking about SS. Getting some stuff done around here and getting to bed so I can get up and exercise in the morning.

[workinghardguy]

A good day I guess. Morning started out with a call from W while I was out for my run. I answered since it's unusual to get a call at 6:30 in the morning. S was feeling ill but we mutually decided to send him to school.

Around noon W texts me that she's ready whenever to go birthday shopping for S. I have to admit I was nervous as hell. This is the first time W and I have done something together, without the kids, in... well, a really long time. Maybe since we went to dinner the day after the bomb? So yes, I was very nervous. How would it go? What would we talk about? Can I actually "act as if" the whole time? So I text her back that I'll be over in 20-30 minutes and had her wait the full 30.

I pick her up and we head out. She asks if I've eaten lunch yet and I hadn't so she suggests we go out for lunch before shopping. Sure. It's funny... I really have no expectations. So really it was pretty easy. I know her, I know what makes her laugh and what her interests are. It wasn't a date... but it's like going on a first date almost with someone who you have this whole dossier worked up on. It felt strange.

Anyway, it wasn't a date, just two friends or a mom and a dad having lunch, whatever you want to call it. Afterward we went shopping. We had a fun time. Again, it was easier due to the lack of expectations. I haven't felt that free around my W in so long. I didn't fret about her being happy or unhappy, I was just me. We teased each other like we used to do. Made some inside jokes and shared some memories.

My S wants a remote control tarantula for his birthday. My W hates spiders and is deathly afraid of them. She's told my S that he can have the spider but it stays at my house. I told her that's fine. She didn't believe me. She kept joking that I'd find a way to sneak it back to her house. I told her I just might... she tells me she better not... I reply, or what? You're going to divorce me? not have sex anymore? Oh wait...

She smiled and laughed... good point she says... guess I'll expect to see a large hairy spider in my house and we both laughed.

But I realized at that point how much control I've let her have over the years, both in the fear that if I didn't make her absolutely happy she would either not have sex with me or she would divorce me. With both of those essentially on the table I was free to be me.

We got back and I went and picked up S from school. Tonight was very quiet as S seemed fine but completely passed out tonight. He fell asleep before dinner and never woke up. I finally had to carry him up to his bedroom and he slept through the whole thing. Poor little guy.

W has texted and called a few times tonight to check on S. I guess I'll put today in the "good" column. W suggested we should do this again for SD's birthday and I agreed. She then suggested we should do this for Christmas too... then she backtracked as she's afraid there will be too much disparity between what I have to spend at Christmas and what she does. I told her let's just take it a day at a time and see where things are come Christmas-time.

I exercised again this morning and felt pretty good most of the day. It was a work from home day so those are hard still. I also spent some time today going through photos for a class project S has and to get photos to decorate my walls. That was pretty hard. Lots of happy times, vacations, pics of W and I at happier moments. I let myself feel it but tried not to dwell.

[oldtimer]

WHG --


*more space than she wants* not *exactly as much space as she wants*

...

[Ctflor]

I agree ^ she needs to feel you gone. Your absence, your unavailability. Make new plans, or make them up. Change up the schedule and take a scheduled night with the kids and make last minute change by saying you have something to do. Go dark, act as if you have something going on for you. Then do plan something, and if you don't make it up.

[figgeroni]

absolutely DO NOT mess with your scheduled time with the kids

bad move

but do be less available to be "her buddy"

It is nice to be buddies but she has to feel like you a hot commodity (because you are)
that she made a mistake in taking you for granted (which she did)
and that she might not be able to crook her finger to get you back (I hope not)

remind yourself of how great you are and what an awesome person you are and who you want to surround yourself with...what kinds of people do you want in your life...then make that happen for you

let her sit outside that circle for bit because honestly
she doesn't deserve to be in the inner circle right now

[Ctflor]

Let me clarify, because I don't think he should mess up the entire schedule with his children, every week, or every so often. I'm simply saying, calling one night and saying you can't come that night, not an entire week or weekend. I'll be blunt here. I think she uses him as her baby sitter, and plans her entire life around this. As a former single parent, you have to be responsible and take that responsibility and not treat your children's father like a sitter.

She does not feel him gone. It is not revenge, it is showing the WAS that you are not there to fall back on 100%, that you have a life now too and that you are out there living it. She cannot know what it feels like to sit outside the circle, when she knows he is a sure thing, every time, 100% of the time.

Build mystery, create mystery.

"Why did he call and cancel his day/night with the kids? What is it that he is doing that is so important".

I guarantee you, she'll run to check his facebook to try and figure this out.

One night does not destroy a relationship with father and child. It might however get the WAS to sit up and take notice......

"Hey, he has a life now...... and I'm ....not....in.....it"

When you are there 100%, there is no mystery, she does not feel him gone, and she knows she can 100% rely on him when she needs him to be there.

Of course, I'm not saying cancel important appointments, or promised things with the kids. Just an regular night where nothing super special was planned out.

I could be be totally wrong here, but then maybe not.

[Ctflor]

Oh, and I definitely block the WAS that has moved away from seeing facebook posts. Build the mystery.

[workinghardguy]

Journaling now because later I don't know I'll be conscious

It was a good weekend. SS and I spent all weekend together at a winter survival training. We camped out overnight in shelters that we built using whatever was in our gear (no tents allowed). It was his first "big" event with our group and he had a great time. While the event was Sat/Sun we ended up spending all weekend together because he slept over at my house Friday night. We spent much of Friday getting him equipped with his gear. We had fun and he was so appreciative of everything.

It did make me feel bad in a way though... I bought him new winter boots and a new winter jacket. His dad is supposed to buy that stuff but when he finally does he does it on the uber-cheap. I've always groused about it with my W, but we've never rectified it. My W was always going to be damned before she spent our money on stuff XH is supposed to buy. Now, without W having a say in how I spend my money, I went out and got him equipped. He told me, "Wow... this is the nicest jacket anyone has ever bought me!" Well, if you're going to sleep outside in the winter you have to have the right equipment or things go bad. And everything was on insane clearance due to the end of winter.

Friday was odd though too... W had court with XH on Friday. She called me after court but I let it go to voice mail. Then she called again and I ignored it. Then I get a 911 text so I called her back. She starts venting about how court went, how they have to go mediation, and how the current system has to stay in effect until that's done. She is ranting about how angry she is, how selfish her XH is. Finally I cut her off. I tell her I am in a meeting and that I can't talk. When I picked SS up she is still fuming and starts to vent again. Then she makes a point of telling me her friend (i.e. "crush guy") can't stay overnight after all and is going home instead of staying at her place. All the time I'm trying to get SS to hurry up and get his stuff so we can leave. It's crazy I tell ya. I validated as best I could and focused on getting SS ready.

Today I dropped him off. Saw the kids briefly and talked to W briefly. Updated her on a few things and then left. She tried to engage me by asking if I was ok, because on the phone I seemed sad or depressed. I told her I was just exhausted (which was the truth) and that I was great.

Broke down a little after leaving the house. I still miss the kids and my W. I know I'm extra emotional as I'm working on two nights of very short sleep. But today is one of those days I'd love to come home and be able to just crash and sit with my W. Maybe get a backrub since my back is screwed up from humping a rucksack over hill and dale. But that's not in the cards.

[workinghardguy]

@Gabby... when I said "sit with my W" I actually meant just sitting with whomever I'm married to (or in a LTR with). I didn't actually mean my current W. No, sitting with her would not be relaxing at all. It would just be nice to come home after a very long weekend of hard training and have someone backing you up and who has your back.

As far as the message/call... we talked about that on Friday. That was the "issues" we discussed. I explained that I didn't like how she handled it and felt manipulated. Her counter was that she thought I would want to know the results of court since they were so counter to what we she thought would happen. And I do have an investment in the court outcome... if she prevails I get to see my SS and SD two to three times a week, otherwise it's the one, maybe two, times I get now. Anyway, I calmly explained what a 911 text meant to me and that if she really needed to talk to just say that in her text. I may respond, I may not, but that should be my choice.

As far as validating... that's a tough call for me. In our marriage it was one of my greatest shortcomings. When she had an emotionally charged issue I'd let her deal with it and wouldn't "step in the puddle" with her. Or if I did it was all about fixing the problem and telling her what to do. It's part of how we got here... if she's going to deal with her problems on her own then she might as well be actually alone. At the same time she's chosen to go it alone.

Typically these exchanges aren't very long. The phone call for example was three minutes before I ended it and half of that was her describing the court outcome to me.

Now... whether it makes me uncomfortable... it doesn't really. Sometimes it hurts a bit, but less now. What I have found is that since I've started listening (and stopped trying to find solutions which requires not listening since you're thinking) I have learned a lot more about my W. I understand her much more than in the years we were together. I can hear what's important to her. I would guess that this past week her total "venting" time to me was 15 minutes. What usually gets me down that road though is that an innocuous question/conversation about our kids, schedules, etc... quickly sidetracks into one of these venting sessions. And by the time I realize where we've gone we're into it and then I feel the need to listen for at least a bit before ending the convo.