Really nice post Val!! You are really demonstrating for us all your incredible growth and grace throughout your ordeal. Keep moving forward and growing. Great things are in store for you!
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Just to play devil's advocate...any chance you are "lovingly" rationalizing anything? you know, pursuing self serving goals but in a groovy sounding "loving" way?
Just asking...
other thing is when you get an apology from her, even if you don't trust it, I think telling her you got the text is reasonable.
maybe You can say "Got your message. I'm sure there's a perfect reply to it, w, but at the moment it escapes me"...
otherwise you are sounding great. The feature film you AD'd is coming out as a lesbian film? That's novel and a tad daring if it's showing outside of LA. Intriguing.
Keep up all the good work.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
@JS Thanks.. We've shared soo many virtual drinks.. We should throw our own vietual party. ;)
@labug and 2 Thank you. I think good things are in store for many of us. This process rips out our hearts..
... But it will heal and one day be ready for love again.
@25 It's good to hear from you lady.. Even if it's at 3am. Has your h been deployed yet?
I appreciate you playing devils advocate. I enjoy my "cheerleaders" but it's healthy to have people pushing me to see past myself.
... So I'll take a shot at answering your questions. I've been thinking about them all day.
I AM pursuing self-serving goals.. I think since December I have turned the spotlight from w to me.
I AM being selfish
and I think to some degree I AM rationalizing my behavior......
...... Because it feels so unnatural to think of myself.
It feels wrong to not answer her.
It feels wrong to not try and change her negative feelings.
It feels wrong to think of myself first.
It feels wrong to do an action knowing that she will be "hurt" and "fearful".
It feels wrong to cut her out of my life.
It feels wrong because I care 1000 times more about her than myself. I always have. Me being selfless was a complaint of hers.
And I'm trying to stop that. I'm trying to stop having my w be my idol. I'm trying to stop being codependent on her. I'm trying to stop being afraid of her.
And yes.. I do believe that is loving to both of us.. Even if it feels wrong or seems selfish.
.. Because as long as I fear her, I cannot love her.
As long as I remain codependent on her, I cannot gain my own independence to make decisions on how to treat her regardless of her reaction.
As long as she is an idol in my life, I will have expectations she can't meet.. Therefore never accepting her in her current journey.
And the only way that I am getting better at stopping all of those things is by being dark. It is by taking her out of my life....
... Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I will have regrets.. But I don't really know how else to get better.
But that is the only rationalizing I am doing. I dont believe I twist decisions into seemingly loving actions.
This separation has been hard.. Emotionally and financially. If I was angry why only go for the health insurance? why not her 401k? Why not spousal support?
Because as much as this is difficult, I understand it is not her place to take care of me....
... It is mine.
Anyway I feel like I'm rambling... But does that make sense 25?
If not, feel free to keep asking.. I do like the growth and knowledge that stems from our dialogue.
Finally, I didn't understand your text response..
We're you joking or did you really think I should respond that way?
What would be the benefit of the latter?
Thanks again. Glad to see you back!
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
@JS Thanks.. We've shared soo many virtual drinks.. We should throw our own vietual party. ;)
@labug and 2 Thank you. I think good things are in store for many of us. This process rips out our hearts..
... But it will heal and one day be ready for love again.
@25 It's good to hear from you lady.. Even if it's at 3am. Has your h been deployed yet? unless the date changes (again) it's this summer. I wish he'd go and get it over with to tell you the truth, esp since Iran is acting wacky and I hate the idea of him being there when tensions are even higher. But I surrender to what I have no control over and usually I handle this pretty well. Will try to model that for my d's I hope.
I loved Kioja's post about military spouses though- I know some real unsung heroes. And for the first time in years I wish I lived on a base again. No one around here in my circles and neighborhood has any idea that he's going or why he'd be going away for so long or where he's going.
I appreciate you playing devils advocate. I enjoy my "cheerleaders" but it's healthy to have people pushing me to see past myself.
Good b/c I like that role anyhow and have found that is what helps ME to be my best self the most.
... So I'll take a shot at answering your questions. I've been thinking about them all day.
I AM pursuing self-serving goals.. I think since December I have turned the spotlight from w to me.
I AM being selfish Ayn Rand wrote a book called "The Virtue of Selfishness". It is often misunderstood. The premise is that in pursuing rational self interest we are most productive and most freed, as individuals. I don't think acting in a rational self interested way is bad. It's healthy.
Rational people don't mistreat their partners b/c they want their r's to work. Like good bosses don't mistreat their employees and people we marry want us to be happy (IF it's a healthy m).
So it's not mean or cruel, it's smart and healthy. But I'm hardly doing justice to her work. (If you get a chance it'll stretch your mind to read anything by her.)
and I think to some degree I AM rationalizing my behavior......
...... Because it feels so unnatural to think of myself. well, that^^ IS a rationalization for rationalizing.
It feels wrong to not answer her. well, maybe it is wrong. Or maybe it's avoidant, or fear based...
It feels wrong to not try and change her negative feelings. this ^^^ is something you need to work on. Stay in your sandbox and leave her to hers, you know? She has her stuff and you have yours.
Do you think you want to "Fix" her or fix you? Or is it a rescue? It feels wrong to think of myself first.
For THIS R, putting yourself first is mandatory. She's gone. You are here. And as unkind as it SOUNDS, putting ourselves first is our job in life.
It's not selfish in the negative sense, b/c we want happiness and we want to share love and maintain our r's. So we won't mistreat people, OR let them mistreat us
and that is ALSO putting ourselves first as well -to keep them in our lives...make sense? It feels wrong to do an action knowing that she will be "hurt" and "fearful". It feels wrong to cut her out of my life. you have to let go of trying to control how SHE feels. That's her job, not yours.
It feels wrong because I care 1000 times more about her than myself. I always have. Me being selfless was a complaint of hers. How can you care 1000 times more about anyone (other than your child perhaps) than yourself? And why would it be someone who has cut you out of her life?
Do you think your head is in the right place waiting for your heart to catch up, OR do you literally believe you are less valuable than she is?
And I'm trying to stop that. I'm trying to stop having my w be my idol. I'm trying to stop being codependent on her. I'm trying to stop being afraid of her. ^^^ Good!! And yes.. I do believe that is loving to both of us.. Even if it feels wrong or seems selfish.
.. Because as long as I fear her, I cannot love her. okay, I'll buy that.
As long as I remain codependent on her, I cannot gain my own independence to make decisions on how to treat her regardless of her reaction.
As long as she is an idol in my life, I will have expectations she can't meet.. Therefore never accepting her in her current journey. is she really still an idol to you, or do you simply continue to hope for more from her, which is "threatening" your well being by setting yourself up for getting hurt again?
And the only way that I am getting better at stopping all of those things is by being dark. It is by taking her out of my life....
... Maybe I am wrong. Maybe I will have regrets.. But I don't really know how else to get better. I get that^^^. Makes total sense.
But that is the only rationalizing I am doing. I dont believe I twist decisions into seemingly loving actions. hard to say b/c we are both wordsmiths. When you write or articulate well, it tends to be more credible even if it's a rationalization.
I must disclose that I'm such a good rationalizer, I literally don't always know when I'm doing it. So that's my perspective, fwiw.
This separation has been hard.. Emotionally and financially. If I was angry why only go for the health insurance? why not her 401k? Why not spousal support?
hmm, who said you are angry?
The only questions I had in the past, were about how you two got here. You wanted to move here and she gave up a job to come here, and then she made more money than you, and supported you for some amount of time, & now she's paying you some or giving half...(I don't know what you guys settled on).
But if I were your L, I'd argue that it's the risk she took moving here. And she left the r as well. That was also a risk.
Do you think you have a lot of anger at her still?
Because as much as this is difficult, I understand it is not her place to take care of me....
... It is mine. excellent!
Anyway I feel like I'm rambling... But does that make sense 25?
If not, feel free to keep asking.. I do like the growth and knowledge that stems from our dialogue.
Finally, I didn't understand your text response..
We're you joking or did you really think I should respond that way?
What would be the benefit of the latter?
Thanks again. Glad to see you back!
Re the text, in the context of her message to you, YES it'd be a joke. But in some situations I do think it's a reasonable response.
My point was that you do not need to have a specific reply, but I think it's basic to let them know you got the text. No more of an answer is needed to her, even if you had one.
Hey, if ALL contact from her is painful, then tell her. Are you strong enough for that?
keep me posted. And though you see me as putting out the tough questions (I concede that)
I hope you recall that I was among your first posters, and have always believed and seen the best in you.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thought I would answer you 25 before I start a new thread.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I AM being selfish Ayn Rand wrote a book called "The Virtue of Selfishness". It is often misunderstood. The premise is that in pursuing rational self interest we are most productive and most freed, as individuals. I don't think acting in a rational self interested way is bad. It's healthy.
Rational people don't mistreat their partners b/c they want their r's to work. Like good bosses don't mistreat their employees and people we marry want us to be happy (IF it's a healthy m).
So it's not mean or cruel, it's smart and healthy. But I'm hardly doing justice to her work. (If you get a chance it'll stretch your mind to read anything by her.)
I will check it out. The "people we marry want us to be happy" struck a chord with me. My wife was very confusing. She would say things that would seem positive, but there was alot of negative actions.
It feels wrong to not answer her. well, maybe it is wrong. Or maybe it's avoidant, or fear based...
Ahh.. bingo. I am avoiding her and it is fear-based. Because she can treat me in whatever way she feels in the moment, I allow myself to get on HER rollercoaster.
Not to mention, when I stick up for myself... well you have read my posts.
So because I do not feel strong enough to handle her and whatever she may throw at me.. I avoid her.
Because I don't really want to have that dynamic with her and am increasingly losing interest in trying to change it.. i avoid her.
Because I am scared of what she will say or do.. I avoid her.
It feels wrong to not try and change her negative feelings. this ^^^ is something you need to work on. Stay in your sandbox and leave her to hers, you know? She has her stuff and you have yours. I know and I'm working it. I do stay in my sandbox for the most part. It's hard and it gets really difficult when I FEEL like she is baiting me. I use the word feel because I don't that is what she is actually doing....
...she could just be expressing her feelings.. but since the dialogue feels the same, it "feels" like its baiting.
Because her reaction is not the most warm and fuzzy when I stop playing in her sandbox.
Do you think you want to "Fix" her or fix you? Or is it a rescue?
Yes I do. It started as a loving action. She had very low self esteem and I thought the world of her. I tried to getting her to see what I saw.. but over the yrs it warped into this crazy sense of "fixing".
I'm really try to just accept her for where she is.. but I'm disappointed in her.
I don't think she is a horrible person.. I'm just not sure we have the same core moral values. It feels wrong to think of myself first.
For THIS R, putting yourself first is mandatory. She's gone. You are here. And as unkind as it SOUNDS, putting ourselves first is our job in life.
It's not selfish in the negative sense, b/c we want happiness and we want to share love and maintain our r's. So we won't mistreat people, OR let them mistreat us
and that is ALSO putting ourselves first as well -to keep them in our lives...make sense?
It makes sense. I don't believe I am mistreating her and I'm trying to stop all mistreatment by her... but it's hard. It's hard to stick up for myself knowing she most likely won't respect it.
DBing has become such a way of life for me... it's hard accepting that not all people DB i guess. It feels wrong to do an action knowing that she will be "hurt" and "fearful". It feels wrong to cut her out of my life. you have to let go of trying to control how SHE feels. That's her job, not yours.
Yep got it. Again really good at it until she talks to me and tells me how she feels. I validate it, but she says so many different things to get the same response from me. It's alot of retraining.
It feels wrong because I care 1000 times more about her than myself. I always have. Me being selfless was a complaint of hers. How can you care 1000 times more about anyone (other than your child perhaps) than yourself? And why would it be someone who has cut you out of her life?
Do you think your head is in the right place waiting for your heart to catch up, OR do you literally believe you are less valuable than she is?
I think my head is in the right place waiting for my heart to catch up. I'm intellectually "there" in alot of ways.. but my heart is being stubborn.
As long as she is an idol in my life, I will have expectations she can't meet.. Therefore never accepting her in her current journey. is she really still an idol to you, or do you simply continue to hope for more from her, which is "threatening" your well being by setting yourself up for getting hurt again?
10 months ago.. I would have said idol.. now it is the latter. I don't necessary hope for us to get back together but I do hope she will be different.
I hope that those rare instances become the norm... and it hurts every time. Every time I wait for the other shoe to drop...
..so going dark means.. no shoes.. period.. until I can get to a place where I can still want her to heal and be better, but w/o the disappointment.
This separation has been hard.. Emotionally and financially. If I was angry why only go for the health insurance? why not her 401k? Why not spousal support?
hmm, who said you are angry? She does. I don't feel I am. I get angry and I freely admit that (to myself and her) but I work very hard at making sure I don't act out of anger.
The only questions I had in the past, were about how you two got here. You wanted to move here and she gave up a job to come here, and then she made more money than you, and supported you for some amount of time, & now she's paying you some or giving half...(I don't know what you guys settled on).
But if I were your L, I'd argue that it's the risk she took moving here. And she left the r as well. That was also a risk.
Do you think you have a lot of anger at her still? [/color]
No I don't really. When I speak of her.. I speak well of her..
I know you and I might have different views on if she abused me.. but I'm still get angry at her over it.
And I get angry that she walks in and out when she wants, says what she wants.....
but I also get angry at myself for allowing her or not setting boundaries or whatever...
So I change me, learn, and let go.
Re the text, in the context of her message to you, YES it'd be a joke. But in some situations I do think it's a reasonable response.
My point was that you do not need to have a specific reply, but I think it's basic to let them know you got the text. No more of an answer is needed to her, even if you had one. Point taken. It's been a week since the text so lesson learned.
Hey, if ALL contact from her is painful, then tell her. Are you strong enough for that?
NO I'm not.. because I am afraid that it's locking the door forever...
...because saying that puts things in my ball court.. and I want her to change.
All I really want is to be treated by this new "w".. the one she is creating whilst working a 12 step program..
..but that's not going to happen so if I say
"hey w - all this contact is painful for me caz I can't tell if you actually care about me. If you really want to hear what I am doing or how I am. If you ask how I was.. and I said sh!tty that you would be there for me"
She would stop talking to me because she has made it clear in both actions and words that she wants me out of her life....
.... all the above is just echos from out relationship.
So I can't say it because I'm not ok with the outcome.
keep me posted. And though you see me as putting out the tough questions (I concede that)
I hope you recall that I was among your first posters, and have always believed and seen the best in you. I have not forgotten and I appreciate you so much!
((( )))
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
