treading water continues...

[BklynMom]

"Sounds like fun. Have a great time!"

exactly

[purgatory]

"I miss the love and affection. I miss the hugs. I miss him saying that I'm beautiful and that I'm the only one for him. The more time passes by, the more it seems to become a distant memory. I start questioning why I should put up with it. I want to be appreciated. I want to be loved. I want someone to want to grow old with me."

I'm with ya on this one. The lack of affection was a factor in my breakup, and I always thought I could take it or leave it... Now that it's gone, I realize how much I had it and that I miss it now.

I'm super impressed with how you handled the texts today. One thing that I thought about is this: The simple fact that he *asked* you if it would be ok (or even involving you in his planning process) says that he still thinks of you as his wife- in some way. I mean, would he just ask a guy friend if 'it would be ok' to go somewhere- no.

Your H seems to enjoy the benefits of marriage- ML, having meals together, talking with someone at night... but doesn't want the whole package that includes: responsibilities, accountability, giving more than taking. When he moves out (if he ever does) he'll quickly see that the certain things he enjoys, are gone too because they are part of the whole package of marriage. I've wanted to tell my H that our marriage is not an 'al a carte' menu- you can't just pick and choose what you want to have and when- he has to accept the WHOLE menu.

As hard as it is going to be for you to swallow your irritations, I think you should tell him to have fun on the trip- there's always the chance that he might change his mind and not go because he is aware of how you feel about it (he said so without you having to say it.) Remember, it's not our jobs to have any effect on their lives- They have made it clear they want to live separate and apart lives: this means *they* don't get any influence in our activities, and vice versa. I think this is also reflected in the way that he was drilling you about you going out (he still thinks he has a *right* to know these things- and if you were still M, you probably would have told him)... He has to realize his decision cuts both ways.

You are doing amazing at holding it all together, and keeping calm in front of him. Maybe you can take up boxing or target shooting- using H's photo as a focal point- could be very therapeutic!! LOL!

[nhmom]

Ok, that's what I said. He was already emailing me and asking if I was ignoring him.

I replied by saying:

"Sorry, I was in a meeting (made up), and now I have to jump on a conference call.(true)

Sounds like fun. Have a great time!"

I'm sure he'll try to bait me more at home tonight. It's interesting, though, that it almost seems like he's asking me for permission to go. I'm having a hard time giving him my blessing for him to go if OW is going. But I don't know that for sure. I don't like lying, but I feel like I have to lie about my feelings.

[nhmom]

Purg,

I'm really getting tired of doing all those things for H and he's just "eating his cake". The "a-la-carte menu" reference is right on the spot. That's what he's doing, picking out things that he wants without any kind of responsibility or accountability.

The benefit of communicating via text/email is that you have time to respond. You can take a deep breath or two and ponder over what you're going to say. Our conversation is probably not over yet, so I'm hoping it will be okay in person as well. My mind is just racing. I'm obviously affected by H's actions - not doing too well detaching, though at least I'm trying to act detached even though in my head I'm a mess.

The weird part about my plans to go out when I told him last night he didn't seem affected by it other than drilling me with questions. But today he's still thinking about it and seems upset. One of his complaints after the bomb was that I don't tell him anything (there was a stupid fight he was trying to pick because we both ended up renting movies without telling each other, but I was at fault because I didn't tell him). But why should I tell him my whole schedule (as empty as it is)? He wants to keep taps on me and what I do (even though he says he doesn't care), yet when it comes to him, he doesn't want to say anything and does what he wants.

[nhmom]

I don't know how to start this post other than say that I completely lost it! It was a wild and emotional disaster. I'm not proud of what happened. I broke quite a few of the 37 rules. Here it goes:

I had a really good night on Friday with my meet up group. Had dinner and drinks and was really able to laugh and enjoy myself. But when I got home and saw that H had exchanged texts with OW I completely lost control of myself. H was sleeping on the couch and I went up to him and turned on the light. When he opened his eyes I said a few things...something like: "I'm f'ing done with you and I hope you'll be f'ing happy with OW", and then I stormed off and went to the bedroom.

H came right in and wanted to know what was going on. I told him to leave me alone, but he wouldn't. Then, I completely lost it. I don't remember all that was said, but I was crying uncontrollably, called him a few names; called OW a lot of names. I don't usually swear, only when I'm really upset.

H was defensive, kept saying that he thought we were done. I told him that we were still married and he had no right to go and do all that stuff. I told him to go away and hope that he'll find happiness elsewhere.

That went on for a while. A lot more things were said. I slapped him across the face. It was a reflex and happened before I knew what I was doing. H didn't go away. He grabbed me and held me tight as I was crying and almost hypervantilating.

I felt really bad because that woke S4 and when he saw me cry he got very upset. At one point H asked S4 to climb onto our bed and H hugged both of us.

Eventually I calmed down and H started kissing me, and it turned to ML. H ended up falling asleep with his arm around me.

Saturday morning was "good". We talked more; I was calm. More ML. We all spent the whole day together. There were times when it seemed that H wanted a future together. There were also times where he was deep in thought and questioning everything.

Saturday evening H wanted to play a "game" by asking each other questions about one another that we should know. We did pretty well being able to answer most of them. But then over the weekend he said that we don't know each other anymore several times. I asked him why he thought that. He said that we just know factual things. Later he said that he can't predict me anymore.

There were a few things H said over the weekend that gave me some hope. H said we need to get new rings. I asked him why, and he said "Fresh start". H said he was looking for a new job with more money for "us". H also talked about wanting to get a new car. I said that when he gets a new job, then we could talk about. But he said if he gets a new job, then it's time we have another kid.

H said I'm not getting a cat (I had mentioned to him a week ago that I was thinking about one). The next day he was looking up cats that are up for adoption and said that we'd need to get 2.

I'm still trying to understand what happened this weekend. I know I did some major backsliding. I said A LOT of things I shouldn't have. I acted the way I shouldn't have. I let him know how much I knew. I let him see how hurt I am (thus probably showing my weakness). He asked why I didn't fight for him then. I said that I thought he was right there with me, that I didn't think I needed to fight for him.

I still don't know where things are between H and I. He is still questioning what he wants. H asked what we do now, how do we move forward. I honestly don't know. I told him we should taking things slowly, take one day at a time. He said he doesn't want to take one day at a time. He "needs" to know now that it will work. He doesn't believe we will work out. I showed him the Retrouvaille website. He wasn't against it, but said that he doesn't know if he can commit to it because of potential work travel.

As for me, I know I need to slow things down. I know I need to throw out the expectations I have at the moment.

Communication between us has improved somewhat since my blow up. H is calling and emailing more. There is a little more affection between us. H "seems" to care more. But there are still plenty of times where it looks like his mind is elsewhere.

Yesterday, I dropped S4 off at MIL's and went to Barnes Noble for coffee and to hang out. I didn't stay too long, but when I was back home already H called and asked if I was still there 'cause he was heading in that direction and was going to stop by. Darn, I missed that opportunity.

I had a GYN appt this morning and told them about some emotional stuff that's been happening. I felt like I got a mini counseling session. The dr. was very good at listening and asked a lot of questions; asked if I felt like I needed medicine; said there is additional counseling available at the office if I need it. She asked if I wanted to do an STD screening. Though H said he wasn't physical with OW, I agreed to do the screening just to be sure.

Sorry for the long post. I feel like I need to be accountable for my loss of control and backsliding. I could use some advise on how to move forward.

[RoRoinMD]

(((nh))) - First, thank you for your post this morning. I'm sorry you had a bad night Friday. (Was it a full moon or something?) Yes, you broke alot of the 37 rules. But you know what they were. And being that I did kinda the same thing, I can't throw any 2x4s your way.

I'm glad Saturday and Sunday turned out to be better days. Seems like you may have turned a corner, but I'd take it slow. Everyone keeps reminding me to have no expectations, so I'll tell you the same thing.(HA! Look at me giving you advice when I can't even take my own!) I know its hard, but I it seems to help in the long run.

I'm so afraid of asking my husband to go to Retrouvaille. I hope you guys get to go. H has said no to MC, so I doubt he'll go to that. But I'm keeping hope alive!

I hope today turns out to be a great day for you!

[cat04]

I don't know how to start this post other than say that I completely lost it! It was a wild and emotional disaster. I'm not proud of what happened. I broke quite a few of the 37 rules.

This has happened to all of us from time to time.

Don't beat yourself up about it too badly.

And now, for the bad news...

when I got home and saw that H had exchanged texts with OW

Were you snooping?

That is a total no no.

You will never gain anything good from snooping.

If you weren't snooping then can you explain how you knew this happened?

I'm still trying to understand what happened this weekend.

You took a ride on the rollercoaster.

It wasn't the first time and it probably won't be the last.

I am sorry that you went through this however, it fits with a lot of other things you have thought and said.

You may want to venture over into the MLC forum and get to know some people. The support there is amazing. (It's amazing here too, just a little different).

Definately do the STD screening. You don't know what he has or has not done and you have to protect yourself.

Just please, be prepared for whatever results you receive. You have had unprotected sex with him.

He asked why I didn't fight for him then. I said that I thought he was right there with me, that I didn't think I needed to fight for him.

My X asked me once, long after the bomb, why I didn't want him. I am not the one who dropped the bomb or was unwilling to try to work on the M. However I was still the one at fault for the M falling apart.

H asked what we do now, how do we move forward. I honestly don't know.

He is looking to you to provide answers for him. Just like when he asked for "permission" to go away for the weekend.

I could use some advise on how to move forward.

I would proceed with caution, continuing on the path that you have been on.

It doesn't sound to me like this is over yet. He hasn't said that he wants to reconcile, he hasn't said it is over with OW, he hasn't said he doesn't want to reconcile. He simply doesn't know.

What do you want? What would need to change in order for you to work on this R with your H?

I have seen nothing about that here.

[rickb89]

NewRussiaMom

I am so sorry you suffered so much Friday night. I had this weird thought about how I was at the bonfire in my backyard Friday night while at the same time you were in M hell. I really feel bad for you.

It sounds like your H has not completely left the reservation. I'll never understand how someone can find someone else before knowing for sure whether they can fix their own M. I mean how can your H ask why you didn't fight for him then? If another W was in the picture why didn't he fight for you then? He's the one that had the OW, you didn't have another guy. I would think that would mean he would be aware of a problem first. Of course this is only logic and in no way figures into what a WAS will do.

You reacted as any horribly wounded creature would and you should not beat yourself up on top of already getting beaten up by your H's sitch. Sometimes, despite the DB game, pure unbridled truth and pain helps get to the heart of the issue. Maybe this outburst actually helped.

I hope so.

((((((((NH)))))))))))))))

[BFloat]

(((((( NH ))))))

sounds like the backsliding may have given you momentum to trek up the hill again.

[mimivac]

nh, don't beat yourself up, it happens. I had a moment like that last week. You've gotten advice from senior members here, but I would also say to proceed with caution. It sounds like your H was jolted by your melt down, but please realize that as suddenly as he started talking about a "fresh start," he may stop and go back to where he was before. Because his about-face seems to be in response to extreme emotion or fear, it may not last when all the emotions have calmed down. Or it may. You just don't know yet.

I am a little concerned that he doesn't want to take it one day at a time and wants to know "right now" if it will work. It doesn't seem like he is willing to work with uncertainty or to face the tough issues in your marriage or in his life. If he just wants an instant fix, what will happen when you have a fight, or he has some doubts, or he sees the OW and wonders "what if?" Will he immediately think, "well, I gave it a shot and it's not working out"?

I think your impulse to take it slowly is a good one, and I really hope this leads to a reconciliation that you are happy with.

Mimi