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#2226162 - 02/29/12 09:59 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Accuray]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
FWIW, the "Passion Trap" also says that when you have a WAS you feel more in love with them after the bomb drops than you did before. This is because you're suddenly back to out of control. As you get back in control through reconciliation, those hugely passionate in-love feelings diminish. Definitely interesting, I do feel I went through that.
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2226168 - 02/29/12 10:10 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Accuray]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
I've read some of what you're saying and I get your approach.

What a ridiculously strange species we are. Really.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

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#2226184 - 02/29/12 11:00 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Crazyville]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
I'll second that. No one told me the ride was going to be this crazy.
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2226278 - 03/01/12 04:21 AM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Accuray]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2779
Loc: VA
Have you had any help from a DB coach lately? There's a lot of analysis and theory going on, but are there any small concrete things that you do that help? Do you have a solutions journal to track what works?

BTW I think the alpha beta ratings stuff can be completely off in some situations, as you believe it is in yours. In mine, I was simply not getting my emotional needs met (my love tank was on empty in 5LL lingo) - even though my H is attractive, masculine, macho, successful, confident, and many other traits I admire and respect. If I felt that there was an implied ultimatum that I should "step up" or risk losing him, I'd have been extremely pissed and our problems with ML would have been even greater. That idea has to be handled soooooo sensitively. Anyway, I don't think it applies to you.

I don't want to be a downer but you're talking about making lifelong sacrifice of your needs in order to enable her to not make any effort at all. People have divorced for less good reasons than that. Are you certain that your kids would be with her? Best off with her? How are your D's learning to be confident sexual beings (later, much later...) with her insisting on not getting healthy? Just asking, but if the family breaks up because she's not willing to make any effort to get help, could, should they stay with you?

I have a close relative who did not get primary custody of her children in her divorce.

Just some random thoughts, wishing I had advice for you but there are only questions.
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

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#2226283 - 03/01/12 05:03 AM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: adinva]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
Is there anything we can do for you right now? Obviously we can't make your decision for you. You're welcome to vent, of course. And you have my sincere sympathy and understanding.

Just seeing if there's anything else? I'm sure it will be day-by-day for you, but we're here for you if you need something.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2226354 - 03/01/12 03:17 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: adinva]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Originally Posted By: adinva
Have you had any help from a DB coach lately?


Not for a while. I felt the DB coach took me as far as she could. When I told the DB coach that my W understood my LL but refused to speak it she basically said "that [censored] for you, you need to learn to accept that or leave". The DB coach was great at getting us piecing, but not as helpful for the long term challenges that characterize our relationship.

I then went to a series of MC's, I felt the last one was really good, but once again, there's only so much to be done if W says changes on her part are off the table and she's not going to work on anything. She doesn't say that from a position of stubborn malice, she says it from a position of having accepted herself and her limitations, and not feeling that she can improve them.

Originally Posted By: adinva
There's a lot of analysis and theory going on, but are there any small concrete things that you do that help? Do you have a solutions journal to track what works?


I'm putting the theory into practice, and I am observing what works. When I went "no sex" I felt really good but over time things got bad because my W was very put out by that. As I've been backing off pursuit I've been feeling better, and I think W has been feeling less pressure, but like I say it's a tightrope where she'll panic and withdraw, or get upset and her bad mood will start pursuing behaviors on my part. I guess the point is that I am learning, I'm figuring it out, it's just not easy or straightforward, it's very delicate.

Originally Posted By: adinva
BTW I think the alpha beta ratings stuff can be completely off in some situations, as you believe it is in yours. In mine, I was simply not getting my emotional needs met (my love tank was on empty in 5LL lingo) - even though my H is attractive, masculine, macho, successful, confident, and many other traits I admire and respect.


Yes, you would have to read the book to really figure out what the author says about it. It's easy to draw the wrong conclusion that he's advocating that everyone should be more of a caveman. That's not what he's saying at all. He's basically saying that the forces of sexual attraction are not necessarily aligned with the traits that make a good husband and father. There is an awareness to be gained about what drives those different forces, and how they best need to be balanced to yield a satisfying marriage. Like anything else, it's a good data point, but not a panacea.

Originally Posted By: adinva
I don't want to be a downer but you're talking about making lifelong sacrifice of your needs in order to enable her to not make any effort at all. People have divorced for less good reasons than that.


It's admittedly easy to read that she's making no effort at all. I don't think that's fair, she's definitely making some effort. She's not cold to me, she's not nasty, she's not hard to live with. Overall she's still a good partner. If we were running a business she'd be a great partner to have. She's just not making an effort in the things that matter most to me, which is different than making no effort at all.

I'm also aware that the "package" that comes with W in terms of intact family and finances is attractive, I would take a serious lifestyle hit, and right now I really like my lifestyle. If I were in my 20's with no kids and was just starting out, the decision landscape would be much different. That's not to say I feel trapped, I don't. It's just a more difficult landscape, that's all.

Originally Posted By: adinva
Are you certain that your kids would be with her? Best off with her?


I do believe she's a good mother. I'm not perfect either, and it's really the counterbalance between us that make us good parents. The kids would not be better off with either of us individually. The union is better than the sum of the parts.

Originally Posted By: adinva
How are your D's learning to be confident sexual beings (later, much later...) with her insisting on not getting healthy? Just asking, but if the family breaks up because she's not willing to make any effort to get help, could, should they stay with you?


Do you really learn to be a sexual being from your parents or do you more or less figure that out on your own? I certainly didn't see my parents acting sexual as a kid, but I figured out how to be sexual for sure!

Her mood issues and unhappiness are definitely a consideration when I think of her as a solo parent. She's convinced it doesn't effect the kids, but I know it does, I can see it. That said, she's very functional -- she manages it very well. She's smart enough to understand what's happening and controls it pretty well. It's a bit like the "Beautiful Mind" movie where the main character controlled his schizophrenia through force of will. Even though I'm in my mid-40's, it's also scary to me to think of having 3 kids on my own full time.

Originally Posted By: adinva
Just some random thoughts, wishing I had advice for you but there are only questions.


Yes, I'm really struggling with this and trying to get the best possible outcome I can. I really internalized the "no regrets" philosophy. I don't want to look back at my marriage and see a time when I gave up because it was too hard or I didn't have enough energy. I'm going to give it everything I've got and will only give up if it gets too painful or I just feel it's impossible despite everything I've done. I'm not there yet.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge the other day by the way, you're a good friend.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

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#2226358 - 03/01/12 03:23 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Crazyville]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Originally Posted By: Crazyville
Is there anything we can do for you right now? Obviously we can't make your decision for you. You're welcome to vent, of course. And you have my sincere sympathy and understanding.

Just seeing if there's anything else? I'm sure it will be day-by-day for you, but we're here for you if you need something.


I really do enjoy the discussion -- it really helps, so keep throwing in your two cents and give me some things to think about.

It hasn't escaped me that I'm on a board called "Divorce Busting" yet several wise folks here have suggested that maybe I need to exit this marriage. Either I'm being completely unfair to W, or I'm just not smelling the coffee. I don't know which one it is.

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

Top
#2226368 - 03/01/12 03:40 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Accuray]
adinva Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2779
Loc: VA
No, you're probably the best hope for her to have a fulfilling marriage. I've never heard of anyone as understanding and persistently compassionate as you.
_________________________
Adinva 48 H48
T22 M19 S16 S14
6/15/11 IDLY
6/11-12/12 in-home sep
12/16/12 H moved out
Nothing signed yet
____
Be the change you want to see in the world (Gandhi)

Top
#2226524 - 03/01/12 11:37 PM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: adinva]
Crazyville Offline
Member

Registered: 01/07/12
Posts: 1047
I will second /\/\/\ this above. The effort you are putting into this with a seemingly "take it or leave it" attitude from your W is truly commendable. Even if you end up D'g, I believe you will honestly be able to say that you did absolutely everything you could. And that's really all that anyone can expect.
_________________________
Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13

Top
#2226584 - 03/02/12 02:24 AM Re: MC says to call it quits [Re: Crazyville]
Accuray Offline
Member

Registered: 07/20/11
Posts: 2090
Thank you, you two make me feel good and I need that right now. I appreciate it. Sometimes it's nice to just get support versus advice!

Accuray
_________________________
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 45, W: 47, D: 15, S: 13, D: 9
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
ILYBINILWY (again) 7/12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014
Divorced 8/2014

Top
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