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hey AT, glad to hear some signs of opportunity. I hope this helps start some growth and renewal. It will still take a while so keep the patience and the faith!


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Originally Posted By: ces67
hey AT, glad to hear some signs of opportunity. I hope this helps start some growth and renewal. It will still take a while so keep the patience and the faith!


Thanks. I'm not really getting excited. My wife's language is quite guarded. She doesn't want to do anything to improve our R, and she doesn't miss me, but she *wants* to miss me.

Given how protective my W is being about her walls right now, I'm not expecting a big breakthrough or her to acknowledge any positive feelings or thoughts. I expect the outcome of the talk with my coach to involve more concessions, goals, and tasks for me, while my wife continues to remain reserved.

I am expecting the coaching involving my wife, to increase the chances of making improvements in the short term and reducing the time it takes. But I know it will still be a long road. My 8th wedding anniversary is August 28th. My goal is to get re-commitment by then. I've learned I can let this take as long as it needs for my wife. My main concern is for my kids and the strain this puts on them.

So, "I'm not really getting excited." It's not that this gives me hope, but that it vindicates the hope and faith that I already had. I'm quite pleased with this development and am looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

Originally Posted By: ces67
hey AT, glad to hear some signs of opportunity. I hope this helps start some growth and renewal. It will still take a while so keep the patience and the faith!


So, yes, I hope this sends us a little faster down the road of growth and renewal.

I'd like to say a bit about faith, though. Drafting...


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Faith is believing without seeing. It is not rational, but it is a driving and guiding force that paves the way for change. It may not be realistic or reasonable, but it might just the only way to imagine a better world and to bring it into being, when the universe seems to be set against you.

I imagine a lot of us here have some abandonment issues - and that drives us to be willing to do anything to keep our R's together. I don't believe that alone is effectively keeping many marriages together. That fear of abandonment has actually been a cancer in our relationships with our spouses, and something that has to be overcome if we are to become the strong, healthy people that will draw our once-partners back to us. Those fears probably led to negative patterns that sabotaged our marriages. We can't hope to rebuild our marriages successfully until we can define new healthy patterns.

It is our belief in marriage itself, not the act of hanging onto someone else, that keeps us here. We are believers, and we hold the bond of marriage to be sacred. I think most of us eventually see that we didn't hold up our end of the bargain in our first go-round, but we will do our damnedest to put things right and heal the sacred bonds we all made.

I mention this because when I first felt the bomb drop, it pulled the rug out from under me and shattered every dream I had for myself and my family. I was devastated. Truly. I am a naturally optimistic person, and I always had a certain amount of faith that things will just work out alright, because they usually do. I lost that.

My wife said in therapy shortly after the bomb that it was like my soul was shattered and that I couldn't access it, so I held onto hers instead. That was a grim image. And she wasn't talking about just after the devastation of hearing, "I think I need a separation.". I had been depressed for a while and it was taking a toll on her.

Well, I've moved on and become stronger in a lot of ways, and we say you have to Get A Life and improve yourself for yourself, and that's all true. But I have to say the source of my strength was actually my belief in Marriage. That defined who I was and why I had to get up in the morning. I needed to be the best father I could be and become the husband my wife would be a fool to leave because I believed in marriage and family.

Eventually, I believed in myself, too.


I mention this all because I am an atheist. I don't believe that there is a god that has a personal interest in my life or who affects the events of the world or the people around me. It sounds agnostic when I phrase it that way, but trust me, I'm an atheist. I'm happy that way. Don't worry about it. Please.

It can be hard, as an atheist, when your worldview is marginalized, especially when it comes to self-help and support groups. Give yourself over to a higher power? Pray? Not believing in a god is a dirty subject, it will cause arguments that make no sense and never end, and you just don't bring it up.

When you're a non-believer, and you're stricken with grief and powerless to respond, it is hard to know exactly where to turn, though you know others can turn to their deity or their belief system for strength and hope.

Well, non-believers, what they say is true; you need belief and faith to get through this. Those of us who don't believe in a god still have a moral life and we still believe in big things - Justice, Freedom, the Value of Life, Humanity, Community, Family, stuff like that.

Well, believing in justice and family wasn't helping me out a lot at first. I was bitter and angry. But I found that my belief in Marriage itself was a source of strength for me. Eventually, that lead to a stronger belief in myself as I changed my thoughts and behaviors to be in line with my belief in marriage.

And I found that I could have faith in what I was doing, so long as I knew that I was fighting as compassionately and effectively as I knew how for my family. It is scary to let go of uncertainty and just act as if your best intentions for your life will come to pass - you have to stick with it, but it is so worth it. It was especially hard for me to move out of my house to give my wife the "space" she needed, when I have no way of knowing whether it really helps. It's taken me a while to understand what space is for. It has been painful, but I'm really glad I did it.

In the end, I have belief and faith in myself and that is an incredibly powerful positive force.

Also, about surrender - as an atheist, you might be unsure how to surrender to a higher power. Eventually, you can surrender yourself to the naked fact that you can't control so much of what is important to you, and you have to just let it happen. You can let go.

You can let go of what you can't change, work on what you can, and sometimes even have the wisdom to tell the difference - all without God.

You can have faith - belief without knowing. You can find the strength to act as if your dreams will come true, even if you don't have any evidence at the moment to prove that it will.

If you don't or can't believe in God, find strength in Doing What Is Right and eventually, transfer that strength right down into the center of you.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,030
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AT, thanks for the explanation. We have common ground in that we want to restore our marriages, live better lives of integrity and be the best we can be. We believe things can be better.

Thank for taking the time to read my sitch and offer support. I'm here for you as well.


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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So, I've mentioned that I'm feeling more confident and controlled, and able to handle the ups and downs with some distance and poise.

Obviously I'm due for a slip-up, then...

Yesterday, I messed up. Yesterday, I allowed myself to believe my wife would probably let me spend an extra night at the house rather than leaving at 11PM, driving home, then driving back for church in the morning. I believe that if I had just stayed until 11 (at 8:45, we were about to start a game of Risk with some friends), she would have said, "OK, sleep here.". I'm almost positive of it. She's been doing that frequently, and really... I've been so well behaved.

But I wanted to hear it up front. I asked her to think about it 2-3 days in advance. No answer. I asked her again Friday, and once again Saturday to think about it. When I finally asked her for an answer Saturday night, she said no.

I just felt so angry. Reasonable request. Rrrgh! I was just about to put the kids clothes in the laundry and take out the garbage and decided to do neither instead and leave early. I calmly walked away and prepared to leave.

Then ten minutes later, I came back and swore at her. Basically, "WTF is this? Why do you have to behave this way?" Friends looked on with horrified looks. Wife just looked dumb like I was speaking another language.


I realized I'm actually feeling a lot of anxiety right now. I'm anxious her EA is getting in the way more than before. I have been not chasing her, and yet, she's been pushing me away. Something feels wrong. I have no way of knowing what is up, but that doesn't make things better.

I'm talking to a coach on Monday, W is talking to her on Tuesday, and we'll probably both talk to her at a later time. It's probably a big deal that W consented to this. And it's probably really great for us.

But the vibe I'm getting from my wife is not good, I do not understand it, and it's making me really anxious.

I know I have to just let this happen, but I'm really anxious to know what will happen in our coaching sessions. It's taking a lot more effort than usual to just live in the here-and-now.

I am learning how to do it though. And reminding myself never to allow my happiness to depend on anything my wife does.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,030
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AT - Sounds like you know what to do. Its just the practice and habit of taking that knowledge and making it part of who you are. It takes time, practice, effort and... yep, patience. Patience for yourself first and also for your W.

Hope the coaching sessions go well. Try and let go of the expectations.

(and I've already mentioned it to Crimson, but I'm typically preaching to myself on these types of comments...)


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Thanks, ces. yes, I think I know what I have to do. That is pretty recent, really. I wish I had a better handle on this long ago and it didn't get this far.

Patience for the W. Yes.

I want my kids back. I want my kids to have their dad back. Waiting is hard.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,030
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Same here. I've always wanted to be a great husband and one my W would love. I can get mad at myself for not realizing I wasn't really doing what I wanted to do and was contributing to my W's bad feelings.

I've wished many times to go back with the knowledge I have now for a "do over" but that's not going to happen. So we move forward with the new start now and WITH the knowledge we've gained. Sad truth is that either we or our spouses tend to bring the past baggage along as well which makes the journey more difficult. But on we go...


Me:45, W:45
S:16 D:13
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
Putting finances in order for "D"
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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I talked to Laurie, the Divorce Busting coach today. I caught her up on my sitch and she asked about goals for the upcoming call with both my wife and I.

I mentioned that my wife thinks she needs more space before she can "miss" me, and that was the main point of the call - to figure out what we need to do with our separation to make it as productive as possible. I want my family back, dammit.

I also mentioned how my wife said (and clearly eggagerated) that every email I send her upsets her. I have already cut down a lot on the emails I send to the wife, and it's hard to see how I can cut down much more. It's hard to let go of the idea that W is just being unfair and a bad sport for not allowing good communication.

I'm having a hard time because 2 or three weeks ago, my wife was seeking out time and communication more and more with me, before we started talking about money again. I don't *want* to take a giant step back. frown

Anyway, I am going to try to find ways to initiate less communication and hopefully soon she'll come looking for me again.


Laurie also said not to stop on the acts of service as I have been tempted to do many times. If it is not upsetting W, do it because W seems to notice even if she is not able to acknowledge.

The real problem I'll continue to wrestle with this week is how to come up with a plan for dealing with finances and bills. Laurie says find a way to settle everything and let everything follow a clear plan so W and I just don't have to talk about it any more. "It" being that it's going to take all of 2012 for me to erase the debt of 2011.

The plan is not the hard part - it's getting W to agree with or acknowledge the plan.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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OP Offline
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Other stuff I'm trying to change about me continues to be hard work. I'm trying to change my normal mode of operation to 10 minutes early for things rather than 5 minutes late.

I've had some success at it, and I realize it is something I have to put conscious effort into not keeping my old bad habit (finding other activities to fill time until the last possible moment), but I've also had some failures.

I was late to pick up my daughter for school the week before last and late to church the last two weeks. Today, I'm going to get to bed on time and continue that for the rest of the week and see if I can get this being-on-time-for-stuff under control.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
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