WHG: And Alice goes down the rabbit hole...

[workinghardguy]

@Gabby... yes, I know we're both co-dependent, in fact it's one of the reasons I'm reading Co-Dependent No More right now. I'm a fixer and enjoy fixing and she enjoys being fixed... a match made in heaven.

It's funny you should mention the moving back in scenario. It's something both my IC and my mom have challenged me on. I'm not lying, it would be hard, but I don't believe I would allow her to move back at this point, not without conditions and a plan. There would have to be conditions which include IC for her and MC for us. And we would need to start over and work towards co-habitation again. I know it sounds fine on paper... would I be able to execute? I think so. As hard as this is, I don't want to just rush back together should it come to that only to do this waltz again. If nothing else the sanity and health of the kids would drive me. I might be ok with the revolving door thing, but doing that to them isn't acceptable.

@2TP... yes, I remember that. I've actually had that front in my mind since you posted it. Even today when I got the pissy text from her I thought of it.

[FiatLux]

WGH,
Hang in there re surviving the D process and focusing on ur R with your S5. The rest is out of ur hands for now.

I can relate regarding the intrusive XH on one's sitch. Have had a really manipulative, needy one in mine, still calls W for every health scare, etc... On my part, I let it get to me too much and didn't stay the bigger man - made me look weak and jealous in her eyes. Do what you can to stay focused on what's best for her and keep portraying urself as strong.

My motto for this year?: You can't keep a good man down!

FL

[workinghardguy]

Kids and I had a great time tonight. They really had a blast swimming. Afterward we went to the Chinese buffet and they ate like kings. Then we came back to my place so they could see our dog and chill. SS played XBox which he was missing desperately. SD played some too, and then her and S did crafts. They made love cards for my W. Not my idea, but that's what they wanted to do and I didn't think it was my place to redirect them and I helped out as needed.

W was ok when I got kids. Actually about 2pm she texted me and asked curtly if 2:30 to 3 meant 2:30 or 3. I simply replied I was busy with a bunch of projects and it meant whenever I got done, but if she wanted to bring them over and drop them off that was fine with me and save me the trip there. I get this dramatic reply about how she hasn't left the house at all today and is pretty depressed right now so she didn't have the energy to leave the house to drive them here (8 blocks away). I didn't reply. Got over there about 2:45 and got the kids. She certainly looked and acted very depressed.

Actually she reminded me of how she was back in October. This was when she was terribly depressed and talking in fatalistic terms. Back then she was so depressed "because she felt trapped in the house with me and can't stand it here but has no choice." So she would run to her friend's house regularly to "escape" our house and me. Hmmm... well, that certainly ain't it this time! She did give me a bag of photos. Some where mine from my high school/college years, but about half were photos of us, our wedding, trips, etc... Not sure where they came from but I took them and said thanks. No tears, etc... whatever.

One very freeing part of this current sitch is that I don't feel beholden to her depression. In the past I would've responded to her mood/behavior tonight with desperate attempts to make her happy. Instead of engaging and finding out the problem I would've made the world saccharine sweet for her based on the belief/feeling that I was part of the core reason for her unhappiness.

It's freeing because clearly there's nothing I could've done that caused today. Maybe something I did or did not do had a second or third order effect, or perhaps it's something from a while past that is affecting her (though highly doubtful). But I don't feel on the hook or responsible for her mood/behavior/condition. She's on her own and her depression remains very much as it was before. So much for her theory that removing herself from me would solve her depression.

[2thepoint]

..and the truth shall set you free.

She is depressed because the reality of her decisions are starting to set in. She needs to deal with that.

[workinghardguy]

Well... actually I think she's depressed because she's simply depressed. I don't know if the reality is sinking in or not yet. I'm sure it partly is, but one of the fundamental pieces in this is her untreated depression.

She was taking Wellbutrin but stopped that against medical advice about six weeks ago. The Wellbutrin was not actually for depression, it was for smoking cessation, but that's was just her screen. She originally went in to the doc to get Wellbutrin and used her smoking as the reason. In reality she didn't want to have to go see a therapist and have a mental health workup done.

So yes. Part of this is her reality sinking in. But her narrative leading up to the bomb was that she's known for years "things weren't right". That having to "act like a wife when she doesn't feel like one" is what has caused her depression. That "living in a marriage where I'm not in passionate love with my partner" makes her depressed.

Well... you're not living in that marriage anymore nor do you have to act like a wife anymore. Yet you're still depressed. More depressed than before actually. The reality is her depression stems from years of unaddressed issues and abuse and until she deals with that... she'll be depressed. Heck, she might be depressed after dealing with it, but it sure isn't going to get better on its own.

And then add the fact that it's time for her to start cycling down into a depressive state. She's been running her full-steam manicness for the past few weeks. I actually started calendering her cycles (for my own sanity) about three months ago. They're never exactly perfect but I have been able to see trends and patterns emerge.

[labug]

I think it's not the wife part, it's the grown-up part she doesn't like. She wants to be a teenager but just can't quite swing that without the help of others.

It's good that she finally has the opportunity to grow up. That would be great for the kids.

[FiatLux]

GM23,
What you posted really resonated with me. My W is bipolar, and is in great need of learning from life experience. I believe she has done so, and seems to be needing our S (and possible D) to stand on her own again.

If anything, the "Mr Fix-it", helpful, stable-male behaviors can be seen as negative, controlling, and stifling (from her perspective).

Hard to balance the natural loving concern with the requested need to have space to learn and grow (and make mistakes).

FL

[workinghardguy]

@Gabby... yes, it sounds eerily familiar unfortunately. There is a rampant history of bi-polar in my W's family. Her dad is bi-polar. Her grandpa was as well I would guess based on stories I've been told. Her grandpa on her mom's side was as well.

Thanks for sharing that story. That could have been my life up to now, except replace "Atlantic City" with "binge drinking". Nothing was ever enough and I could never make her happy. Again, this isn't to say I didn't screw up too. In fact, perhaps my biggest mistake was not to "step in the puddle" with her and confront her on her behavior. Demand that she get help and then support her. Instead I tried to make the world perfect for her, got angry at her for all the hoops I jumped through to do this, and then locked her out because I was angry and took my anger out on others.

I think the past week has been much about me wanting what I can't have. Not wanting HER so much as wanting US back. I can't have it so I want it.

Last night a really pretty minor event happened that made me realize I don't want her back. Not like she is. I guess it wasn't one event, it was a combination of things. First, she gave me a stack of old photos. I looked through them. It was painful but it was good too. They were from years ago. Holidays at my mom's house, trips we took before our S was born, family time when S was one or two. I saw all the happiness we had. Happiness she denies. I see us cuddling, embracing, touching, kissing, and being together. All things she said we've never had. Candid photos of us lying on a couch holding each other. It made me remember the days when she would do things for me. Things to make me happy just out of the blue. The way people who care for each other do. It also reminded me who my W was once upon a time.

Then my mom called last night. She wanted to know what was up with my W. My W had posted to Facebook that she was tired of being taken for granted. Based on the convo her and I had when I got the kids I believe this was directed at them (not that they'll see it... kids aren't on FB). She was angry, furious really, that she worked all day on setting up the new house. Hanging photos, cleaning, organizing, etc... and the kids didn't help much at all. They laid around, watched TV, etc... in short they were kids. The most helpful was S and of course he was... he's five and helping is still cool

But that FB comment made me realize how incredibly self-focused my W is right now. How ungrateful those children are. Don't they realize how hard she is working? Really? C'mon. You just tore apart their world, made them move, and disrupted their lives... and you want them to be grateful to you? Be glad they aren't throwing things at you.

Now... this isn't a change for my W. But when we were still under the same roof I didn't acknowledge it. I guess I kept hoping she wouldn't move out, so I didn't want to admit these things to myself. If I did then I would have to deal with me and wonder why the heck I still want someone like that in my house. It was easier to ignore and overlook (which is what I've done for YEARS) and simply accomodate and placate. I'm pretty sure this is what Oldtimer was trying to tell me for months, but I wouldn't listen.

Gabby... you asked if I would let her back in now if she asked. No, I wouldn't. I am confident of that. Not that the FB post is really a big deal, but it's what it represents. That rather than saying thanks for taking the kids, feeding them, and having them over for a few hours... instead I get why aren't you taking them more. Instead of being empathetic to the three little lives you've just lobbed a hand grenade at... we get, woe is me and how undervalued I am.

Enough. She needs to live her life now. She needs to be with herself and learn who she is. I need to do the same. I really don't know if we can ever find a path back. That's not meant to be defeatist... it's meant to just be observational. A year ago I wouldn't have guessed we'd be here. And in the same vein I can't predict what we will be like a year from now. But clearly there have to be conditions if she does ever want to return. And those conditions may make a return impossbile. But there's no point focusing on that right now since it's not a reality... instead just live in the now.

[workinghardguy]

Just some journaling... things definitely don't occur with as much frequency or alacrity now that W has moved out. I was out of town all week for work. It made being dark a lot easier, I'll tell you that. W and I had precious few interactions. I called her on Tuesday so I could talk to the kids. She offered to talk at the end of the call, but I didn't really want to. I was out at dinner with friends so when she came back on the line I excused myself and hung up.

Wednesday she had only our S (SS and SD were with XH). I called my S in the evening and talked to him. This time she specifically asked to talk to me after I was done with S. So I waited and we talked a bit. She wanted to tell me S was very down and sad this week. He told his teacher, my mom, and my W that he doesn't like the divorce and it makes him very sad. W felt that my being out of town was the source of his sadness. I said that neither of us know... that I'm sure it's more impacting because I've been gone for a while now, but that it's also the second full week of living in two houses. The bloom is off the rose now and he doesn't appear to like it. I suggested we simply listen to him and what he's telling us and go from there. After the convo about S, W started telling me a little about her week. It's so easy to slip into that pattern. I told her about how I had run into a former co-worker that morning in the office of one of our senators (talk about a weird coincidence). She then told me about some gossip she'd heard about his wife... and that was when I realized I was falling back into old habits. So I quickly cut her off, told her I had to get back to dinner with Nicole and her friends and hung up. Nicole is a colleague from another part of the state.

Thursday morning I got a panicked text from my W asking if my mom could get SS and SD after school. XH and W had yet to figure out the "what happens to SS and SD after school" piece... oops. I debated for quite a while on this. After all my mom was already picking up my S after school, so it wouldn't be anything to get SS and SD, plus my mom loves them and misses them terribly. At the same time, is this how it works? You can't plan for your kids so you ask your STBX to do it? In the end I asked my mom if she would mind, she didn't, so my mom got them. I don't think I like how I resolved it. W did say thanks at least.

Then Friday was a bit humorous... at least to me. In the morning it occurred to me that W would need my mom to get SS and SD again after school. However, her messages the day before had been very specific about only Thursday... no mention of Friday. My first thought was to text her to see if she needed help. But then I stopped... not my job. Let her figure it out.

Sure enough... when I got home from travelling my mom tells me that she got a panicked phone call from my W at 3pm asking if my mom could pick up SS and SD and take them to my house until XH picked them up. SS and SD were pretty miffed that mom forgot about them... SS's words to my mom were, "I'm guessing mom forgot about us again?" According to my mom she replied that it's just going to take a little time for everyone to get used to their new roles... and for my W one of those roles is managing a family calendar (that's something I used to do).

Nothing really has changed much, though I know not to expect it. Like I said contact has been very minimal. I do know that W is very depressed based on the little bit of contact I've had and that some mutual friends have had. I'm worried for her, but largely powerless to affect it. One thing I have noticed is that W is now following my Facebook updates again. For a long time she had my feeds blocked to her news feed. I never quite understood why... I didn't do the "messages via quotes" thing or anything like that. But now any time I post something that's positive or that involves the kids she's one of the first to "like" it or comment. Just this morning some random lady in front at the drive-thru paid for my Starbucks (random act of kindness) and my W was the first to "like" my post.

So things are ok. I wish S was doing better. He's sad and hurting. I do miss my W, but at the same time like not coming home to the stress. Just tonight I caught myself looking at the clock and thinking, "crap, only three hours until she comes home"... then I realized she wasn't coming home. At that moment I felt this odd mix of grief/loss and relief.

Tomorrow is church for S and I. I told the church last week of my separation and received a lot of hugs and support. This morning was volunteer stuff with an award presentation for three of my cadets and our local Congressman. Other than that lying low trying to get my house and life back in order after being gone for a full week.

[workinghardguy]

Had an interesting set of email exchanges with my W today. She emailed early this morning to tell me of her work schedule for mid-month. In there was a request to have the kids overnight for one or two nights as she has been given a few night shifts.

I immediately started tapping out a reply, in church no less. What is wrong with me? I put away my phone and decided she could wait for goodness sake. So when I got home and got caught up on things I responded, about four hours later.

I told her the overnights were fine. I rarely get my SS and SD overnight. That triggered quite a few back and forth emails, mostly logistics stuff. One update that I was happy to see is that the on/off arrangement with XH may be no more. She's going to ask the judge to have XH pay CS and keep the old schedule. That would mean more time I would get with SS and SD. Unfortunately it means the R between SS, SD, and XH will probably become worse. But, frankly, I don't think it's healthy for the kids to be moving between two houses that are 60 miles apart during the school week. It means no park and rec, sports, etc... they don't have a "home". I had not shared those thoughts with my W because she didn't ask and it's not my place any more. So I was glad to see she got there on her own.

Anyway, during the exchanges she asked how I was doing. Told her great. She replied that it's hard. That she hates being alone in the house and struggles. That she misses being able to come home and tell someone about her day.

Of course that doesn't mean she misses me... it wasn't that she missed telling me about her day, just telling someone. Then she says this,

As for living my life...yes, I'm more trying to figure out myself first and then try to find things I enjoy doing that I have not done for a long time. I'm a hot mess and hope to try and fix that to be a better me, better mom and better at being alone

So not sure where I take that... but it's fits her mantra so far. And I do hope all those things come true for her. I'd like her to be a better her and a better mom.

So then we discuss a little more business. Some payment arrangements on some stuff and whatnot. We discuss our S's pending birthday party and what we're going to do about that (we're going to have a joint party that we split the cost on). That was a big change for me... in the past I would've paid for everything and set everything up. Today I simply told her what S says he wants, what the estimated cost would be, and that I would pay half. She agreed. Ok, so during all of this my tone is fairly business-like and restrained. I'm trying to not be emotional or mopey, etc... Then I send her email about something I forgot to say in my "last email."

I get this panicked reply... she's apologizing if she made me angry or hurt me. That she needs to do this and knows it's horrible on everyone. That she hopes this wasn't my last email to her ever to her. That if it is she hopes I'll reconsider and explain why I feel the need to just stop communicating like that.

WTF? Umm.. I just meant my "last email" as in the email I just sent... no, not the last email that I will ever send you. Somehow I think that email will have far more fanfare and dramatics involved. But her reaction really surprised me. I have no idea what it means, but it did surprise me.

So tomorrow it's back to the office after being gone for a full week on work travel. Tomorrow night I see W for the first time in over a week. Feeling ok. Lots of support at church today and had a good weekend with S. Get to see all three kids tomorrow and spend the evening with them and put them to bed.

Doing better I guess. Still miss my family. Still miss my W. Still tired of finding things missing and having to replace them (today it was my favorite measuring cups). But one step at a time.

Though I did go out and buy a new stylish overcoat (I've worn the same winter coat for 13 years... those Columbia's hold up well) and new underwear. Every "single guy" website says buy new underwear so I did... and I didn't even go cheap