divorce unavoidable?

[MrBond]

"Wait so because he doesn't know how his next partner may be he needs to just accept misery?"

No we're saying that he should try and work on his M because there is no guarantee that his next R will be picture perfect either based off of his expectations.

It's why so many second, third, etc. marriages fail. They're all looking for the thing that will meet their expectations and only their expectations.

And besides, 1) they haven't been married that long, 2) She was very young when she married. The marriage isn't doomed. You need to stop thinking that it is.

[greenblue90]

I don't know I think sex frequency and intensity is pretty important.

I'm not of the type that believes that telling the HD that he may have to adjust his expectations in order to remain married.

Sex can be a non negotiable for both the LD and the HD, each wanting a different outcome, both stubbornly holding on to themselves. The LD usually wins out when there's a stalemate. If she doesn't want to change, she never will. It's the harsh truth.

Only the individual can answer how much they're willing to give up to get the sex they need. The poster is 25 maybe he can handle the idea of not having sex for the rest 50 years. To me at 28 it's unfathomable.

I'm sure his wife is very special to him, mine is to me. Yet they are both in their sexual prime, things should not be stalling right now. I'm not against him trying everything possible, I just want him to think if he has a limit and when he will reach it.

What happens when he has read every book, tried every philosophy, and done every technique, and his wife still resents him?

Most importantly what is his wife's motivation to change? He doesn't have to drop an ultimatum, but knowing what you want and how far you are willing to go to get it will take you a long way.

An old poster from here who fixed his SSM told his wife:

"a year from now I WILL be in the type of relationship I want to be in"

The fact he was resolute yet non confrontational was what got the ball rolling for him. The most important thing though was that he would not compromise himself.

[Accuray]

That is an ultimatum and he had to be ready to walk to make that statement.

Accuray

[greenblue90]

An ultimatum is indeed useless without the willingness to back it up. That's why I suggested he try to find what his limit is.

I also think the average LDer needs a good reason to want to reconsider their lifestyle. If I remember right SSM points out to the LD that that a sexless marriage makes it more vulnerable to affairs and break ups. Sounds like an implied threat to me.

In MMSL you run the map with the hopes that your W will be drawn to you, but Athol does not deny the fact that running the map to its very end may lead to divorce. Of course in this philosophy the goal is to become so desirable to women, that your wife (who is also a woman) desires you to. At the very least she'll realize how easily she can lose you and protect her turf by meeting your needs.

By all means seek therapy, and counseling, but eventually his wife will have to decide if her anger and self righteous indignation over her husbands occasional porn viewing (or whatever other excuse she'll throw at him) is worth risking the marriage.

[ssmguy]

sk8life and his wife should find a good marriage counselor or sex therapist, and the sooner the better. I think she needs to hear from an independent "authority" that some of her attitudes about male sexuality are unrealistic and that she has no reason to feel threatened. With her current attitudes, she's going to have sexual problems with most men she might meet even if she splits up with sk8life.

Basically, there shouldn't even be any suggestion on this thread of splitting up until these people have tried some kind of counseling or sex therapy. That's the whole philosophy of this forum.

Greenblue90, "They are both in their sexual prime and things should not be stalling right now"?? You seem to be implying that it's more acceptable to have things stall if you're in a long-term marriage. ;-)

And what happens when he has read every book, etc., and his wife still resents him? Maybe it's not him that she resents. Maybe it's not him that's the problem. When sex therapists report that the most common sexual problem reported by women is LD, why do we so often assume it's because of her resentment of her husband? Think of how silly it sounds when you turn the problem around -- if a guy has ED, it's probably due to resentment of his wife and she should stop doing things that make him angry?!! I can just hear a crowd of women howling!

The whole ultimatum thing stinks in my opinion. Been there done that. I suppose it can result in positive attitude changes for some women. But speaking personally, the last thing I want is a woman who's going through the motions of sex for fear of losing me.

[Accuray]

Agreed ssmguy,

We seem to have lost sk8life. Reading MMSLP, he projects 3 outcomes (1) your W becomes truly more attracted to you and therefore boosts her sex drive (2) she meets your needs from a defensive position to keep you, or (3) you leave but are now more attractive and can find someone who will be willing to meet your needs.

Like you, I do not see scenario #2 as a win. That's more or less where I am now sexually. People are experts at figuring out how to do the minimum, and that's what #2 leads to -- the LD partner figuring out how to deliver "just enough" to keep you, going through the motions, etc.

I think it's debateable if #1 is a reasonable outcome, to your point it pre-supposes that the cause of LD was the HD partner not being attractive enough, where attraction is defined as not only being in shape, dressing well, but also having the proper mix of alpha and beta traits. If that really wasn't the issue, then the author of MMSLP suggests it's time to move on.

So if I boil it down, #1 is a great outcome if it works, #2 requires acceptance of your lot and is not really a win, and #3 is effectively giving up on your marriage. The only inconsistency I see is that the author tends to imply that #2 is a win, when I think we believe it is not.

Accuray