I'm not sure how many here will remember me as it's been while since I last posted. H and I are 5 months into piecing and I remember how desperate I was to hear about success stories when I first began my journey here, so I have decided to finally post an update. (Previous thread above).
Actually, I haven't been posting because life got crazy or rather ex-ow got crazier. When chasing after my H like a scorned teenager didn't work (apparently she hasn't read DB, otherwise she would know that begging and pleading never does), she decided it would be fun to stalk and harass me, and then try to pour salt in my wounds. I won't go into the details but let's just say that a Cease and Desist letter works wonders for crazy. Her recent behavior still makes me angry when I think about it, but then I remind myself that all she did was succeed in making me look like the better choice once AGAIN.
Anyway, when I last posted, H and I had just returned from our Retrouvaille weekend. It was a fantastic experience (as were the post sessions) and if you can get your spouse to agree to it, please do anything and everything you can to make the weekend a possibility.
We were both nervous that Friday when we walked into the hotel to begin our weekend and we definitely didn't know what to expect, but we went in with open minds and open hearts. Many of the couples looked strained and distant but despite the devastation exposure brought only 5 weeks prior, we were affectionate and connected. I always said an A was a dealbreaker for me and if it hadn't been for this forum, it would have been. That said, recovering from an A is NOT easy and I am still healing and still hurting. The anger and sadness can be difficult to deal with some days but I remind myself, "Do you want to be angry and self-righteous or do you want to be happy and keep your M and family together?" I want the latter, so I know I must make the choice to love everyday.
Anyway, our Retrouvaille weekend was very emotional and we shed many tears together. My H cried openly while the presenting couples were speaking and it was clear that he was very affected by their stories. In our hotel room on the second day, he broke down and said he was so very sorry for everything he had put me through, for the A, for the mean things he said after the bomb and for not being the husband that I wanted and deserved. He said the expereince of Retrouvaille was both hopeful and sad. Sad because if we had only gone before he started the A, during our Misery stage, that he knows without a doubt that the A would have never happened. He also admitted he would have even been open to Retrovialle years ago as he always just wanted us to be happy. Ironically, the very first post to me on this forum suggested Retrouvaille. It was bittersweet to find out that not only would H have been open, but that he would have willingly gone long ago.
When we know better, we do better.
What I learned from my sitch: (This does not mean it applies to your sitch but that it applied to mine). Although, hopefully some of it will help someone as did so many things I read here on the forum.
Validating does not mean being a weak doormat, or allowing your spouse to treat you poorly. If they are being rude and disrespectful, you can walk away calmly and tell them you do not wish to argue. Boundaries are not ultimatums. Boundaries are about your choices, not about controlling someone else's behavior
Listen to your spouse but there is no need to participate in annihilating your own character. If what your spouse is saying is untrue, you can say I'm sorry you feel that way, or it makes me sad that you feel that way, but I don't remember it exactly the same way. Remember they are angry, hurt, emotionally disconnected, mixed up or caught in an A and they are justifying their choices. Yes, words can hurt you but if they aren't true, it is not about you but about them and what they are going through in that moment. Focus on your changes. They may believe what they are saying right now but feelings change. They are not set in stone.
For instance, when H told me (more than once) that he didn't like me or respect me, I would calmly say, "I think there is a lot about me to like and respect. I like and respect myself and I'm sorry you don't". I recall that he would stare at me, often at a loss for words. Sometimes I would ask why he didn't like and respect me. When the reasons were crazy and I knew they were crazy, I would validate his feelings but not necessarily agree. If there was some truth to his complaints, I would say if I could go back, I would do things differently. H said these are the things that made him realize he was projecting his self-loathing onto me. It also made him realize that there was a lot about me to like and respect. That I didn't beg, plead or cry but that I seemed strong, that I seemed different and that I was open to changing because I wanted to become a better person and a better wife. He also realized that it was himself that he did not like and respect.
So own your stuff and let the rest go. Just because your WAS says it is true, doesn't necessarily mean that it is. And remember if you reconcile, they will not remember half of what they said and if they do, they will apologize. Over and over. They will regret their horrible words. Their actions. You will not regret acting with integrity. Be strong. Hold onto yourself.
Don't pursue. Let them feel the loss of you, the loss of your family. It's not your job to give them consequences, nor is it your job to protect them from those consequences forever. Besides, the more you try to convice them that your family and your M is worth saving, the less they have to think about what the future will really look like if you D. The more you try to convince, the more they will defend themselves and their choices. Let them do their own feeling work. Don't do it for them. If they're going to realize what they are losing, it has to happen on their own time. If you fight them, they will take longer to see this. Let them go. Detach from the outcome. What will happen will happen. With or without you trying to take control. YOU can only control YOU.
Show them you at your best. Look good. Don't show them your depression or tears. Cry in the shower if you must but don't let them see you in pain. They will wonder if you will be okay without them. Show them you will be. You can love them but you don't need them to be happy. Tell yourself this everyday until you believe it. And don't expect it to happen over night.
Fear. It's your enemy. Fear of the future. Fear for your kids. Fear you will never love anyone the way you love your spouse and you will never find anyone else. Face these fears. You cannot control their choices. I was afraid of my H moving out. When I told him it was time and stopped trying to convince him that it would hurt the kids or that we couldn't tell them and told him it was time to tell them, he backed down. He had to face his own fears about what his choices would do to his children when I stopped doing his feeling work for him.
Let them go. Work on you. Make your changes. Do your 180's. They will notice, even if they pretend not to notice. And if they don't come back, you are going to be even more fabulous. As 25 says, be a man or woman that only a fool would leave.
And if your spouse is in an A and you know about it, remember it is not your fault. Yes, you contributed to the state of the M that led your spouse to make the choice to have an A, but you cannot control anyone's choices. The A was their choice. Own your mistakes in the M. Don't own their A. My H does not blame me for his A. The reasons he had were justifications and excuses but he said the right choice would have been to be face the problems in our M. To come to me with his feelings and to approach me with openeness and honesty, instead of choosing to dishonor his vows and lose his integrity. He has apologized for his A many times and I have apologized for the ways I hurt him that led him to justify his A, but in the end, his A was his choice. I have to live with the pain of betrayal but H lives with guilt and remorse and the lose of his self-respect. He knows he has damaged our privacy and tarnished our specialness. That is not easy to face either.
Exposure. My H is now grateful that crazy ow exposed the A and wishes the A would have come to light sooner because that meant it would have been over sooner. My H believes that A's are built on secrecy and lies and if you know your spouse is a person who values honesty and integrity despite their current behavior that suggests otherwise, that exposure will destroy the A. Again, this is what we learned in our situation and NOT what you should necessarily do in your own sitch. I have not told anyone about H's A and am still debating whether to tell my parents. I believe they will be forgiving and I often feel like I am lying to them by omission by not telling them, but I'm still struggling with what is the right choice for us.
Books. Divorce Remedy, Sex Starved Marriage, Passionate Marriage, His Needs/Her Needs and the 5 LL's are my favorites. Ironically, H snooped and found HNHN's and the 5 LL's during our stich and read them too. They helped plant more seeds of doubt that were already growing against D and the A.
Today, we are doing well. The infidelity diet has me looking fabulous, if I do say so myself, and I didn't have any weight to lose to begin with, but now I'm downright willowy. Oh and hysterical bonding after an A is not a myth. Google it. It's like being on our honeymoon again.
H and I have made a commitement to weekly dates and we spend quality time together each and every day, aiming to meet each others needs for sex, conversation and affection. It is a priority for us now. It should have been in the past but our goal is to have an even better M than we ever had, even in the beginning before we entered our Misery stage. We are also looking for new activities that we can enjoy together and as a family. Lately, it has been bowling. S16 (now S17) admitted recently that she's not that into the bowling, but I am proud of her for never once complaining when we said we were going bowling as a family. Ever.
Speaking of the kids, they are doing so much better. S8 is very happy to see mommy and daddy showing each other so much affection. S17 is still hesitant with H but she is less gaurded every day. She told me on Christmas day that she is trying because she sees that I am trying. We've spoken about forgiveness many times and she understands that it is a choice. I also shared some of what we learned during our Retrovaille post sessions and as the weeks went by, she began to ask for more details about Retrovaille.
Well, that's the update. H and I both believe we would have eventually reconciled, even if we did separate for a time, but the journey back would have taken so much longer without this forum so thank you to everyone who supported me, offered me advice and posted on my threads. I appreciate you all.
Thank you for sharing your story and words of encouragement with the forum members. All of us here hope to one day be in your shoes.
Please keep us posted on how your piecing is going, including the ups and downs. There is so much to be learned from those who have journeyed down this difficult path.
Congratulations!
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Congratulations, Endeavour. that was a wonderful post full of knowledge and understanding. I am happy that you were able to save your marriage. And while your H says he would have been willing to go to Retrouvaille before the crisis, I wonder.
Don't pursue. Let them feel the loss of you, the loss of your family. It's not your job to give them consequences, nor is it your job to protect them from those consequences forever. Besides, the more you try to convice them that your family and your M is worth saving, the less they have to think about what the future will really look like if you D.
this:
Quote:
Fear. It's your enemy. Fear of the future. Fear for your kids. Fear you will never love anyone the way you love your spouse and you will never find anyone else. Face these fears. You cannot control their choices. I was afraid of my H moving out. When I told him it was time and stopped trying to convince him that it would hurt the kids or that we couldn't tell them and told him it was time to tell them, he backed down. He had to face his own fears about what his choices would do to his children when I stopped doing his feeling work for him.
and this:
Quote:
Let them go. Work on you. Make your changes. Do your 180's. They will notice, even if they pretend not to notice. And if they don't come back, you are going to be even more fabulous. As 25 says, be a man or woman that only a fool would leave.
Thanks for writing this.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I am SO glad it sounds like you are on the right track now. It sounds like Retrouvaille was the way for you to go.
Originally Posted By: Endeavour
Sad because if we had only gone before he started the A, during our Misery stage, that he knows without a doubt that the A would have never happened.
I think it's hard to say whether he would've gone at that point anyway. I still wonder if the A was what it took to turn things around for you. I think you could well be on the way to a better place than you've ever been in your M.
I'm glad you got a Cease and Desist letter for the OW You didn't want anything funny boiling on your stove.
Oh, E!!! It's my long-lost DB twin! I'm SO glad to see you back on the boards, and I think it's awesome that you are sharing your piecing journey on the Newcomers board. There is nothing like success stories to help encourage others in their DB'ing efforts!
I recently changed my screen name; I directed an acquaintance who got a bomb drop to DB, and I do like to keep up some anonymity in case they end up on the boards. However, there have been several times I've wished I could connect with my DB friends in the alt. I don't have a FB account, but have found some DB folks on FB through my kids' accounts (I'm a pretty good detective! .). You are certainly one I'd love to get in touch with some day, as our sitches have had many similarities.
All along I have worried about your husband's ex-ow coming after you and/or your children, mainly because I have so much experience dealing with a ex-ow and know that many times they will stop at NOTHING. GOOD FOR YOU for setting the boundary with her through the C&D letter. I hope she is off your radar for good.
As for me, I haven't had any more "run-ins" (literally, if you recall my husband's ex-ow trying to run me over with a grocery cart!!!), and we continue to fall into our "new normal" more comfortably as time goes on. Piecing IS a tough road; I think so many of us want to believe that if the WAS will just come back, it will be "happily ever after." Not so, and I'm so very grateful I learned to really DB, as it will forever help me in my relationship with my husband and others. Truly, MWD could take the DB principles and expand them to many other relationships (with bosses/co-workers, family members, friends, etc). Hey, now there's an idea, MWD!
BUT ENOUGH ABOUT ME...I'm so very glad that things are going well with you! I'm grateful that Retrouvaille was a great experience for you and your husband. It's easy to think "oh, if we had just done this or that in our past, the A never would have happened," but I believe ALL things (the good, bad and ugly) work together for the good of those who love God (Romans 8:28), and perhaps the hard things that happen lead us to be the very best people HE knows we can be. I'm so glad that your daughter is coming back around in her relationship with her father; look what a wonderful example you are to her of what true forgiveness is!
Please keep posting, and know that you and your family remain in my thoughts and prayers. I'm so glad to have gotten to know you through this board, as you and others (including our precious JB...gotta love his "you didn't want anything funny boiling on your stove" statement!!!) helped me get to the strong place I am today...and I would be here despite if my marriage had been saved or not!
Love to you and yours....the poster formerly known as lc4
Thank you so much for sharing your story! I needed to hear the reminders about why it's important to stick to DBing and to validate the great advice I have been receiving here! It's nice to be able to have a "complete" picture of the DB journey, and reading your story is a great example! You give me hope!
E: Thank you for posting. I started reading your threads from the beginning and will have to finish when I get home as I've not gotten very much work done.
Your situation is SO familiar. And YOU are inspiring. Your handling of it all is admirable.
I am like your H in the situation, and then my SO (we're not married) ended up being the WAS. I have already been stealing little snippets from your posts to try and learn. Can't wait to get home and read the rest
I am very glad to hear of your situation and it's meaning/healing/changing
When chasing after my H like a scorned teenager didn't work (apparently she hasn't read DB, otherwise she would know that begging and pleading never does), she decided it would be fun to stalk and harass me, and then try to pour salt in my wounds. I won't go into the details but let's just say that a Cease and Desist letter works wonders for crazy. Her recent behavior still makes me angry when I think about it, but then I remind myself that all she did was succeed in making me look like the better choice once AGAIN. 
It sounds like Retrouvaille was the way for you to go.
However, there have been several times I've wished I could connect with my DB friends in the alt. I don't have a FB account, but have found some DB folks on FB through my kids' accounts (I'm a pretty good detective! 