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#2214950 - 01/23/12 02:46 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
KD-I will work on getting into the mindset you describe above. Your ideas help me get into a mindset free of negativity were I can write the letter that I want. The letter that truly represents me and my feelings for my W.

It might take me a couple of days to get started as I get my S back today and I usually focus on him and us as much as possible when I have him.

I will also be giving my L the papers to revise them as there is some disappointing things stated in there that my w said she would not do and I think the L convinced her she needs to ask for.

I will keep you posted and thanks to all for you help and support.
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2214957 - 01/23/12 03:06 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Awesome, Snowman!

Take the time you need to do this. And yes, where you are going with your thoughts to create this letter is not a place you want your mind while you have your S.

Although first day / last day is a great tool to use while with your S, as well. Imagine you are like him. Seeing the world from the eyes of a child. How wondrous that must be for him and how can you help him create the experiences and memories that will last through his life. And to stay away from the sad parts of it, but if this were the last day you would ever be with him, would you really sit him in front of the TV while you do "dad stuff", or would you focus every moment on him, because you'll never have the opportunity again...

Find a balance. And have fun with your S!

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#2215005 - 01/23/12 05:05 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
workinghardguy Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 982
Loc: Wisconsin
Quote:
but if this were the last day you would ever be with him, would you really sit him in front of the TV
Snowman... the term for this is child-centric. Listen to your S, he will tell you what he needs. He will need you and he will need his time too. But yes, work on it without S around.

And if you let yourself get into this mindset it really makes life better as a dad. This new mindset may be the greatest gift this whole mess has given me. Yesterday I had a list of "to do" items. Then that list got blown up because I discovered one of the kids left a crayon in their pockets and ruined about $400 of my clothes and their clothes. In the past my focus would've been on the money, replacing the clothes, salvaging the clothes. Everything else would've fallen off the table.

But... I had promised S we would go bowling. So I engaged his help in salvaging the clothes which was full of fun things (at least fun to a five year old) like stirring clothes in a sink of detergents, pulling clothes out sopping wet and getting water everywhere, mixing different solvents together, etc... In the past I would've freaked out at all the water he got everywhere, but now? Water can be mopped up. Messes can be cleaned. And then after that we still went bowling. The rest of the list didn't get done, but who cares... a dirty bathroom will still be dirty tomorrow and the world won't end.
_________________________
Married 6 together 8
Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both
SS12, SD10, S6
Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann)
W moved out: 2/18/12
D final: 11/12/12
Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD

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#2215964 - 01/26/12 04:45 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: workinghardguy]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
Well I have not had time to sit down and think about the letter due to life just getting in the way and being extremely tired. My W's lawyer is taking the D full throttle ahead so there is really no turning back now and my W is on board. Her L tried to do something sneaky things in the papers and she really is trying to screw me in the D. Wow how people change. This is really going to make it hard to write this letter but I will still try.
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2215975 - 01/26/12 05:35 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Of course I hope you understand that your W is likely being "coached" by the L, or the L is being aggressive for the benefit of the client.

If your L let you know that your W is probably going to go for full custody, child support, spousal support, 50% of the assets + an additional 10% for emotional harm, plus your pension plus her L fees... do you think that you would not get excited to go for full custody, a cash buyout of your W.

It's the nature of the "beast" preying on our fears. It's their job and how the system works and many people buy into it. They (the clients) are human. And by moving swiftly, it's easy to keep an already off balance opponent in the defense. What you and your L can do is ensure due diligence and take as much time as alloted to ensure everything is considered. It may cost a little more for that service, but what is more important? Saving money or ensuring a fair split?

I am glad to know you are still going to try to write the letter. Again, let us know when you have it completed or have any further questions about it.

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#2215978 - 01/26/12 05:58 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
I know its the nature of the beast unfortunately. My W is not being quite that mean as you describe above but still I think what she has asked for is ridiculous. My W hired some rookie L that I'm sure is hungry to pay his law school bills and made many mistakes in the documents according to my L who has been at this for a while. I at least feel that my lawyer wants for the best for both because he encourage me to work on things if my W was open to it a month ago and is pushing for mediation even though her L sounded pushing in the email my L forwarded me. Her L sounds just cut throat and filed papers after my W was not sure what she was doing.

This all just [censored] and I'm back to having problems sleeping at night on top of my 2.5 year old S refusing to stay in bed when he wakes up at night. Oh the joys of life. I have to admit my vacation in March is sorely needed as I'm just plain wore out.

I'm probably going to end up short selling my upside down house when this is all done. This is all too much fun.

Why do people think D is the answer. All it causes is stress, anger, resentment, loss of income, grief, and on and on. I'm reading the book How to improve your marriage without talking about it. It like it so far and will continue to read even though my is ending because I want to continue to improve.

I got a new "Big Boy Bed" for my son so when I get him back we will see how that goes.

I got mail from my W which was copies of more papers telling us about the required classes we have to take for the D. Add that to the list.
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2217011 - 01/29/12 09:50 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
Well my W came and get her stuff out of the garage and house. I helped her with some of it even though it felt like the saddest thing ever. There was so much stuff I put some stuff in my car and went to the new place she will be living. It was hard when my son is trying to help my W and watching this. I went to her new place to see where it was so I know. She did say thank you for helping her. For some reason her scandalous Halloween costume was out on the railing, that was surprising to say the least. Her alcohol was on the counter which tells me she is not slowing down on the drinking. I really don't know who my W is anymore because this is the complete opposite person that I married.

I asked her if she really wanted to do this and all she said was pretty much and then moved on to moving some stuff and avoided the topic. I will write the letter when I get time (have my S now). I'm not sure were she is going with her life but it seems to me she is following her girlfriend's path that is recently divorced almost exactly. This girlfriend just ended her 2nd marriage and is partying with my W and they are doing many of the same things together. I know this is typical for a WAS but I don't see her wanting to go back to the morals and lifestyle we once had. She is living the lifestyle of her father and some of her brothers which is fine but to be honest it is not a lifestyle I want to live.

My S said something about living at Grandpa's house and she said "he*l no, he doesn't even want to live there". That was surprising although I know he is not really happy with his situation either. I know this is all random info but I just recounting what was said. Not sure what else to say. I'm working on me and reading How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It as it is a really good book as well. I see my W and me in many of the things it describes. It maybe to late but I will still learn and improve from it.
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2217018 - 01/29/12 10:33 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: Snowman
Well my W came and get her stuff out of the garage and house. I helped her with some of it even though it felt like the saddest thing ever.

Ouch...it IS sad. But she feels it's her "task" or mission now, and you must leave her to it.

You said you had found a "pro-marriage mc" but your w "refused to go." I went to several mc's with h as I told you. They validated my perspective and that changed nothing for my sitch b/c my h decided that b/c I'm a L, I had "brainwashed ALL the mc's" and he refused to go anymore.

I found a pro-m mc, and I went by myself for a solid year Before h even met the guy. They met a few times on their own, and got along quite well (I found that having a man counselor was good for my h, btw).

Anyhow, who said you cannot go without her? I found it very helpful to ME to go on my own and get a pro-marriage perspective even in the face of the odds...with or without h, I wanted to know I had done right by my kids/marriage vows, no matter the outcome. I knew I'd have no regrets. IF I'd stopped going b/c h would not go, that means HE gets to dictate how I behave? Nope...or that HE decides when I, 25, quit? Nope...

I choose how I respond and I choose IF and WHEN to quit...


There was so much stuff I put some stuff in my car and went to the new place she will be living. It was hard when my son is trying to help my W and watching this. I went to her new place to see where it was so I know.

She did say thank you for helping her.

that's^^^ a positive in my mind. You MAY be learning to detach. Earlier you seemed to think detachment meant giving up. It does not.

It means letting go of results so much (be your best self and leave the results up to God) and it means

NOT ATTACHING your happiness or self worth or thoughts,

to someone else's actions or words.



For some reason her scandalous Halloween costume was out on the railing, that was surprising to say the least. Her alcohol was on the counter which tells me she is not slowing down on the drinking. I really don't know who my W is anymore because this is the complete opposite person that I married.


ALL of this^^^ is just more of the same old YOU being judgmental.

The "Scandalous" outfit, the "not slowing down" on the booze. Yes I have a low tolerance for alcoholISM too--but I don't spend my energy judging others or commenting. This is so NOT IN YOUR CONTROL

but you keep hammering at the wall with your stick. Let it go.


I asked her if she really wanted to do this and all she said was pretty much and then moved on to moving some stuff and avoided the topic.


B/c you thought she'd suddenly change her mind? During the move? That undermines the effect of you assisting her...

What you resist, persists.
Stop asking her or pursuing. Leave her to her "mission" to see if the grass is greener on the other side and to feel free of your control.

Snowman, to me, you come across as critical and controlling. In her mind, she
can only be herself if she is free of you. In her mind, she wants to know what choices she would or could make if you were not making or judging them all.

She wants to KNOW who she is...that is how she strikes me. Is she handling this in the healthiest way possible? No she is not.

Are you? NO you are not. And you are the only person here, so we can only give YOU advice on how YOU behave...

Let her go find herself. Stop cornering her or making ultimatums and please stop discussing her with family and friends.

You are making the "road home" rockier and more twisted, Not "paved and smooth".

Though I understand why,

the reality is you sound too pissed off at her

for her to believe you two could ever get past all this.






I will write the letter when I get time (have my S now). I'm not sure were she is going with her life but it seems to me she is following her girlfriend's path that is recently divorced almost exactly.


^^^STOP THE NEGATIVE PROJECTIONS...they help NO ONE, including you. They hurt your cause, they hurt your m, they hurt you and they hurt your son indirectly...

just stop assuming the worst of her. Stop expecting the worst...

prepare for it but hope for the best. And learn to feel happy. You sound so miserable -- was that one of the things your w said bothered her?

I never got a clear answer from you on what SHE said your issues were...you said she "retracted some" and I can only assume that was in reaction to you confronting...so I don't count it as a retraction at all.

The content and tone of what she said offered you valuable information.

How do you feel about how you used that information?





----is typical for a WAS but I don't see her wanting to go back to the morals and lifestyle we once had.


b/c?? She's now amoral? Immoral?

Were you living a repressed judgemental lifestyle?

Why would she NOT want it again if she was so happy in it?

Does this attitude of yours --implying she's immoral/amoral, work for you?


She is living the lifestyle of her father and some of her brothers which is fine but to be honest it is not a lifestyle I want to live.

1) you don't KNOW what she is doing so how can you assess? Just more negative projections... (I doubt you knew her dad/brothers that well either, but that's just a guess.)

2) it's NOT "fine" with you, and that is abundantly clear.

Why the pretense of tolerance?




---- I know this is all random info but I just recounting what was said. Not sure what else to say. I'm working on me and reading How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It as it is a really good book as well. I see my W and me in many of the things it describes. It maybe to late but I will still learn and improve from it.


that's ^^^ great to do now. I think it's better late than never, and I don't know that it's too late anyhow.

But stay in your sandbox and do your own work;

stay out of hers and let her find her way.

DETACH--we hammer it for a reason....here's a short piece on it. There is a lot of info on this site about it...



This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine accomplishing our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. But We are responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’ It is the natural acceptance that I alone am responsible for how I act.

I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2217026 - 01/29/12 11:42 PM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Snowman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 148
I will consider going to a MC for myself although it is terribly expensive but probably worth it for me. I will ponder this.

Yes, I need to continue to detach. I agree.

I knew you would harp on me for saying stuff about the costume and alcohol, I could almost picture you writing what you did in my head like a subconscious of sorts smile.

No I didn't think she would all the sudden change her mind, it was my foolish natural tendency that got the better of me. I know I have a control issue and I don't deny it but I was not asking her the question to control her. How did you get what I said as discussing it with her family, I didn't discuss it with her family. I just restated what my W said.

I will admit I expect the worst because that's what I have got. I have prepared for the worst but I'm also getting the worst. I will work on stopping my bad assumptions.

I will get back to you on the issues she told me long ago, I promise. Me acting miserable was not one of them, the opposite, she was miserable according to her. At the beginning I didn't use the information properly and I know this but things were said about every aspect of life like I never did anything right so its hard to believe that everything that was said was true.

I'm not sure she was happy with our morals that we follow per our religion and ourselves. She even has said she doesn't want to stay together because our religion says so which I never mentioned to her. The attitude question is rhetorical and we both know the answer.

Actually I know her brothers and father quite well. The pretense of tolerance is because I feel that I would have to tolerate it if we got back together, sorry.

Man, I just helped my W move her stuff who is divorcing me and I feel pummeled here. I'm honest in my feelings and words here with you so I guess I deserve it as you are honest with me. Thanks.
_________________________
Me:29
W:28
S:2
M: 5 years
Bomb: 7-26-11
Separated: 8-20-11
EA w/ multiple OMs
W filed 1/2012

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#2217036 - 01/30/12 01:24 AM Re: W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore-P2 [Re: Snowman]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
I'm sorry you feel pummeled. I really am.

All in all you do sound as if you are trying to wrap your brain around some crazy stuff and it does not make sense to you AND it hurts. I get that from your post and I feel for you. I spent A LOT of time trying to figure out my h or his choices for a few YEARS of my life...(never again-not b/c I don't care but b/c I have detached even while reconciled. IT's a lifestyle that protects our own happiness. Make sense?)

A part of me wishes I could get in your head while you are with your wife and stop you from spiralling...the whole negative projections, expecting the worst, etc.AND saying that's what you have gotten...it's not the "worst"...

The worst is her leaving you for OM, telling you she never loved you, son is not yours, she lies and says you beat her, others believe her, she files for divorce and wants it all and tells everyone you stank in bed too...

so no, she's not giving you the worst. See? cool

You have more hope than you can see right now. Your pain fogs it up. But it's there.

Stay the course.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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