I have my avoidance tendencies from dealing with an overbearing controlling dad. The whole trauma and drama surrounding everything with XH really sent things to a whole other level though. Unfortunately, as you well know, knowing why something is happening doesn't change it. The bit of therapy I tried during the S was completely unhelpful. I have considered EMDR or CBT as I don't think anything short of that would be remotely helpful.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
I just wanted to comment on the blank-mind-while-under-stress-&-inability-to-reply thing. I suffered from it as well, and it drove my H crazy. I have since learned that it's the reptilian portion of the brain's response to perceived danger. In my case, I learned to do this as a child being molested; others shut down/freeze while being verbally or physically abused.
The reptilian brain over-rides the other 2 parts of the brain when it perceives danger, and it can't distinguish between past and present situations which "feel" the same, so it snaps the adult into the same child-like frozen state where thinking & feeling seem to slow down and getting any words out is almost impossible. My H also pointed out that my breathing became very shallow and slow whenever this occurred.
My point is, when I forgave my abuser, going through a multi-stage forgiveness program (created by Gary Pettitt and available on the internet, though it can also be completed with a therapist), that issue gradually ended for me. I also applied the program to forgiving my H for his EA.
Now, my head remains clear even when I'm quite distressed, and I'm able to identify my emotions, talk calmly about them, and really "be there." If my H notices that I'm stressed, he just reminds me to breathe more deeply and the feeling passes.
Take courage--it is quite possible to drop those avoidance tendancies, because although learning them was forced upon you, you can choose to unlearn them, and it's just such a huge release to do so. I found the whole forgiveness process to be an interesting challenge--figuring out all the ways that abuse/betrayal had impacted me, and turning them around to affirm all the positives I really believed--it was not a traumatic experience at all.
And maybe, meanwhile, communicating in WRITING rather than speaking to each other, might be a better way to discuss painful topics?
Also - have you read the Five Love Languages book? If you haven't, read it. It sounds like he wasn't hearing you speak his language, and that may be at the core of your issues. Once you read and understand how that works, you may be able to express your love to him better.
Yes Cyrena. Exactly, and yes I know it's a reptilian brain issue. Glad to know someone out there gets it, even if it's not Roger lol.
kml, that does help. Thus the e-mails.
5LL, yes I have. I tried to get him to do the quiz on the website, he said and I quote, they are all good. Trying to get him to pick which one/two he identified with most was fruitless. It would help me so much if I knew what to focus on.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
I know that neither one of us ever intended to hurt each other or make the other feel insignificant. We have always been so good to each other that it would NEVER be our intention. Or at least i should say you have very good to me.
You are right... I didn't understand until last night. I read this right before going to bed and it dawned on me what happens when you are confronted emotionally. What I gather is that you shut down emotionally like a protection mode so you can't get hurt. Then try to rationalize your emotions... does this sound right? Your description here is very clear especially when u talk about coming up for air and getting foam... that I know all too well.
He's a surfer, thus why I picked that analogy lol.
Originally Posted By: Roger
As for issues, I have tried to be patient beyond my ability. Ergo why i became unruly over the past few months... the waiting for you to come around really did a number on me. I am not going anywhere and so if you want to talk these issues out one by one now I am OK with that.
That's if I can ever figure out what's on his list lol.
Originally Posted By: Roger
I do however need my time alone. It's been tough to have a partner that is constantly there. That is not a negative on you, it's just something that I have always had issues with. That's what makes it so difficult for me. It has always been this way with anyone I date... it's just a part of me ever since i was a kid. I was happiest in my room playing with my toys alone. Now as an adult it's sitting and having a whiskey by myself and browsing the net in silence.
Definitely true, and while I wonder if it had to do with staying away from his stepdad and just not knowing how to deal with a lot of the things going on in his life then, I have always tried to let him have his space. There were nights he would come home and go into the office and close the door and not come out til dinner or so. That all changed with the dog though as she needed to be walked in the evenings. Hmmmm. That's food for thought.
Originally Posted By: Roger
You stated that bringing things up when you are ready is very difficult because you are never ready. That's why i hate doing it too... The problem is the longer they get buried the worse they fester ... take it from me, the emotional train-wreck. I've repressed issues from my childhood all the way up till about 10 years ago... All it did was rot and made me bitter and more angry as time passed. That is why i learned to approach it right away and get it out. I haven't spent 10's of 1000s of dollars in therapy on myself to walk away empty handed. The tools I have now help me work through any issues I have.. And I have a LOOOOOONGG way to go imo.
Don't we all lol.
Originally Posted By: Roger
I do really appreciate your honesty and kindness... I do appreciate that you are not dismissing my arguments and reasoning. Most of all I do appreciate that you are now making an effort to clear the air and making a very concerted effort to voice your pain. That does mean a lot to me.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
WEll - I would guess Quality Time is definitely one of his LL's, since he's so concerned about you opening up to him and talking to him.
AS for his second LL - think back to his responses in the past. Would he rather have a mushy card and a compliment, or have you buy him that exact gadget out of the catalogue that he said he wanted? (Words of Affirmation versus Gifts). Is he effusively grateful if you make some crafty thing for him, or does he make some comment about not knowing what to do with it, or the one from the store being better? (Acts of Service versus Gifts?)
And if he does lots of Acts of Service for YOU (detailing your car, bringing you tea and coffee, etc) he is probably someone who wants to hear Words of Affirmation.
On the other hand, if he's a guy who always wants to hold your hand, rub your shoulders, sit touching you, lots of hugs and kisses - he's a Physical Touch guy. (Dang, I've only briefly dated one of those since my divorce - I'm definitely Physical Touch myself, it was quite lovely to be with a guy who liked it too He was one of the inappropriately young ones though. My current boyfriend is more like my ex - I think he would prefer I didn't touch him so much, so I try to keep my hands to myself.)
He is pretty touchy, helps out a lot around the house (dishes, cooking, helping me work on my car, whatever). He seems to like AOS, he is appreciative of gifts, he likes quality time (definitely over quantity of time lol, he likes his alone time). He has never said anything less than complimentary, been less than appreciative about anything I have gotten for him or done for him. He is scrupulous about saying thank you.
He likes to talk more than anyone I've ever been with. More than some of my gfs even lol. I think that's a product of having 2 older sisters, 1 younger, and being very close to his mom when she was alive (she died when he was in college). He definitely isn't lacking in vocabulary lol.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
So I responded to his e-mail earlier today: I know you know enough anatomy to understand the biology of it. From that perspective what happens is that the basal ganglia/r-complex/reptilian brain takes over from the neocortex and limbic system. It's a freeze response, like a deer in headlights, everything slows down (randomly, I wonder if it ever seems that way from outside, like does my breathing slow down, muscle movements, etc.?). And no conscious part of my brain is in control of it.
The problem is, anything that feels like past situations that have triggered that response will trigger it again since the reptilian brain has no sense of time or logic. And I'm still figuring out what those triggers are (mostly things that could be perceived as verbal/emotional bullying, not that I am saying you do that, but it can be as little as an angry look or gesture that would have preceded a rampage by Neal). And I also don't quite understand why some times are more paralyzing than others.
I don't know what you mean by waiting for me to come around. Come around to what? And how was waiting supposed to bring that about?
As for the space issue, I know you like more alone time than I do. I always tried to be understanding when you wanted to be in the office and leave you be. I guess you didn't have that once you started moving your stuff though. It's hard not to have a space that's yours. I don't begrudge you that. I know the whole dynamic of that changed with the dog, but I really wouldn't have minded if you wanted to walk the dog and then go in the office or read in the other room. When it bothers me is when I don't feel like you are really there any of the time. For example, we got into the very bad habit of watching a lot of TV in the evenings (I think at any rate, much as I love MASH and Firefly and such). A lot of that time I felt like it was a distraction rather than quality time together. I'm pretty simple when it comes to feeling loved and appreciated. I appreciate gifts, flowers, I'll always take compliments, but nothing gets me more than holding hands, rubbing my shoulders, touching my leg, kissing the back of my neck. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find just being in the same room intimate. In retrospect, I reacted the opposite way I should have. I tried to make myself more available to you, spend more time with you, so that I wouldn't miss any opportunities. I totally neglected to factor in the fact that you wouldn't appreciate that because I was so focused on trying to get my own needs met.
I have no intention of letting things fester and go for years. I haven't even been doing that the last 4 years although you may not see it that way.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
And his response this evening: I see... Now i totally understand your fear of confrontation. I figured it was due to the bloody noses u got from your sister(kinda joking kinda not) or maybe your father's not so subtle intimidation... (thinking of kelsey's visit) I was proud of you when you stood up to your dad at the Navy Graduation and told him he was acting childish. That, I think, was a big step for you...
As for your issues of confrontation perhaps seeking help with that will make things a bit easier in the future I used to totally be the same way. Fear ... total fear would lock me down... I could never argue. I have had to learn to calm myself and think then speak.
About for the waiting for you to come around was regarding the times where we had discussions that i received no response. I was hoping you would bring it up later so we could hash it out on your terms ... i thought perhaps that would help you. I was hoping you would sense my distancing and pulling away and at least ask about that. Gradually My walls became stronger for my protection.
It is so unfortunate that such a drastic measure had to be taken to get a reaction from you.
I hope you understand my reasons for calling it quits. If not, I have no problem explaining myself.
Perhaps in time you and I can rebuild our friendship. I would like that a lot.
Is it just me, or does that infuriate anyone else? There's something so irritating about putting the time and effort into trying to have this conversation only to have him shut it down. So much of his response the last couple months has been so passive aggressive. We're still back to the same things. No you didn't have to do something so drastic to get a reaction from me, you could have talked to me, asked to do counseling, tried a different actions, communication medium, etc etc etc ad nauseum. And no I don't understand your reasons for bailing. Ugh.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
that I know all too well.
My current boyfriend is more like my ex - I think he would prefer I didn't touch him so much, so I try to keep my hands to myself.)