OK, I'll try and be succinct, a little brutally honest and practice a couple of abbreviations.
Been married for 22 yrs to a wife who is still my one true love. The last couple of years have had plenty of ups and downs. Just over a month ago everything blew up. The emotional intensity of the argument and the real possibility that we were breaking up gave me a massive wake up call, which we talked about and she now sees me as a different person.
We've had a few very good weeks now. Restaurants, movies, time away from the kids it's been fantastic. The conversations have been around the past problems and the changes she's seeing and how that's totally confused her now.
Then, earlier this week, after a conversation with a friend about some trust issues he's having with his wife I thought, "I'll check if there's any trouble in new paradise" so earlier this week I checked her phone bill and smack, text messages to a number I didn't know. Checked her phone, messages to the number have all been deleted. I asked her about it (nicely) and she said it was nothing to worry about, it was a co-worker, they are friendly but a lot of it is work related and he's married and not to go running away with the wrong idea and that she deletes work texts all the time. I bit my tongue, committed to myself to remain the loving husband and left it at that.
That night in my emotional googling I found Michelle's Walk Away Wife youtube video. Yep, that is exactly us. I showed her, less of an emotional response than I was hoping for but she said, yep I can see that's us.
Next night found from the bills the texting goes back six months, averaging around ten per day, peaking at thirty. Also found photos on her phone of W & OM at their Christmas dinner plus a separate dinner outing just the two of them looking very cozy and she'd emailed them to a work colleague who said they looked good together. I was away on business that week.
Next day I again, sensitively, raised the issue that the texting was really disturbing me. She was very reassuring that it was a friendship only (she doesn't have many close friends) and that was it. I didn't tell her I knew about the photos and email.
I booked myself into a trusted pro-marriage counselor (I'm a long way from the USA) and what she said seems pretty much inline with what I've read so far on the DB approach, it's absolutely an EA, we don't know whether there's been a PA but that's not the main issue at the moment anyway, and I need to get her along urgently as well.
That night went for a walk w/W through the park hand in hand. She agreed she wanted to make this work. I told her I've seen the photos and email, she was still reassuring me saying that yes that happened but it hasn't gone anywhere, and she's agreed to see the counselor with me on Mon. I've told her that if there's any chance to get through this she needs to be brutally honest, be there for herself and really not give a damn about how I might feel about what she says. She's promised she'll do that. I don't, but really do, want to hear her say she's had a PA. At least I'll know she's being fully truthful.
So I'm just trying to make it through the weekend, remain loving and not lose the plot. And I've got questions:
Firstly where do I start with DB here? What materials can supplement the counseling and give me insight into how I can win this thing?
Should I stay physically and emotionally close to her over the next couple of days?
What stages of emotion will I go through? I'm everything at the moment, mostly scared.
In tandem, should I prepare for the potential that it won't work? (Separation/Divorce support groups, new activities etc.) I feel I need to start building a safety net.
what does succinct mean? (I tried to be)
...and to my wife, if you've happened to google this and figured it's us, it's only here because I love you and want to make things work for us.
3am welcome to the board. Hopefully your W will not find her way here. This place is for you and you only. Do not share this site or the DR book ok. Post often and give lots of details. You will be in moderation for bit so be patient. Think about what her complaints about were? The experienced ones should be chiming in soon. Hang in there
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
It sounds like you have a healthy attitude, although I would pick on one statement above.
There's a saying that goes around from time to time: "Cheaters lie and liars cheat."
You've indicated that you hope your W says she had a PA, because then you'll know she's being truthful.
So... if she doesn't say she's had a PA, will you think she's lying?
As per your questions:
+ Get Divorce Remedy (DR) as it is the more current book and reads more like a workbook on key focus point. Others recommend 5 Love Languages (not by MWD, but apparently an acceptable recommendation regarding the TOS here).
+ Be careful to move towards her, it is seen as pursuing and she may feel pressured. Rather, be keen to recognize signs that she wants to be with you and spend 1-1 time with you. Listen to her, validate her feelings when she is speaking. Just be a really, really good friend to her.
+ While you're post appeared very level headed, there is no doubt you are going through the emotions. You might go through all the stages, you might only go through some of them. It really depends. It depends on where your M goes from here and that depends on YOU and your W and the work put into making it better.
+ I didn't read above anything that might suggest your M can't work out. Perhaps you've left out some extreme stuff. When your W admitted to feeling like a WAW, do you feel she really is out the door? Do you feel that she is really only putting on a "nice" act as part of her exit strategy? We certainly recommend preparing for the worst. Although until more info comes along, I'm not sure it's a good idea to start separating finances, moving out, or retaining a L. If your W hasn't said D or L, it could be too early.
That was a great introductory post, and it's time to really let some of the "bad" stuff, out...
What are you most fearing regarding your M?
What are you most fearing regarding your W?
You found indicators of an EA, but you haven't really received "the bomb" at this time. No "ILYBINILWY" or "we married for the wrong reasons" or "you are the reason our M is going to fail" or "I want a D"... etc...
Or have you...?
What are some of your W's complaints about you?
What are some of your complaints about your W?
If you've not read the DR book, but have been reading this site... you are likely familiar with 180s and GAL...
Hi 3am, That's really encouraging stuff that she's willing to go with you and has said she wants to make it work. Good luck. I would suggest that you stay diligent to find out her issues and while you can be thankful that she is taking part in find a solution, don't get too comfortable. Stay diligent to work on the issues and show you care about being a better you for the M as well.
Good luck!
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
I think there are things that YOU should take a look at if there is hope for you mending this fence....
What if questions that are HUGE in this..
What if she had a PA ???
What and how are you different since your light bulb went off ???
How do YOU interact differently than before ???
And the really big question that seems so simple in theory...
Are you able to forgive, in whatever capacity that that entails ????
Because if you are incapable of forgiving , you will be walking in quicksand....
And that forgiveness isn't just for her, it is also a gift that you give to yourself...
Usually through times like these, there are walls of trust that are shattered. Things that you have done to destroy that, and things that she has done to destroy that.
Trust is the hardest thing to gain, yet the easiest thing to lose.
Obviously, trust has become an issue, at least for you trusting her. I mean , you trusted your friends word over her word when you went looking through her things.
She knows that you looked through her phone...right ?
What really strikes me though is the BEFORE things blew up..
You glossed over that pretty damned easily to get to where you are now....
Thank you, this is place full of wonderful people. In answer to some of the above.
H complaints. I see now that I've been very condescending, putting her down a lot, and haven't paid attention to building her up. I thought things were fine BUT now I see how continually I had been getting frustrated and angry with her over how I expected her to be involved in things, or see her not do things for her own benefit multiple times, then we'd argue, then I'd end up calling her names like idiot and stupid. Usually it was about something that I thought would be for her own good, like getting the kids to do something for her instead of her doing stuff for everyone, or doing an activity that would be good for both of us. Looking at it now I'm really embarrassed about my response and the way I handled it. I can see now that I was destroying her self esteem. We still did things like go out to dinner and do things with the kids so she's never been hostile or pushed me away.
M complaints. She lets everyone walk over her and won't ask for help. Doesn't have any close female friends, pushes them away. She's always been emotionally responsive but not very proactive.
If she hasn't had PA will I think she's lying? Probably, although I have conflicting thoughts. She hasn't looked for excuses to get away or have time to herself, and I can't recall any time we were suspiciously apart. We work similar hours and I from home a lot. Although she has been saying that I get time to do what I want and the photos were in a week where I was away. The SL has been good. Looking back though a few months she shaved below out of the blue, then recently had a skin problem medically treated and has recently been shopping online for lingerie, all of this with my involvement.
Being a friend: yes very aware and not pushing myself on her. We are spending friend time together, even now. This is really tough but even if it's heading to breakup I'm going to let her see that Michelle is right about turning me into the best H I can be.
M Fear - that I won't be hearing the truth and it will become acrimonious. W Fear - same thing I want to be sure I'm hearing the truth, otherwise regaining trust will be hard.
Bomb - she has said after the big argument things like, "I don't know if I want to be with you" "I wonder if got married too young" "sometimes I think it would be better if I were living by myself" I just now accidently discovered that she's been to the government 'divorce' website and clicked through a lot of links.
GAL:had a hunt around, didn't see this one, what is it? 180's: I'm complimenting her, treating her like a friend, being very careful not to put her down. In a teary moment during our walk the other day she asked me in tears why I couldn't have been like this before.
Snooping: Yes I told her and I told her why. She didn't go off her nut be she seemed disappointed but also a bit 'caught out' at deleting all the sms'. BTW they stopped for two days but yesterday there was an sms on her phone that hadn't been deleted and was very 'work like' and she left her phone lying around for me to find. I'm just going to ignore that for now.
Forgive PA: I don't know, possibly, the trust is going to be difficult. The fear of being alone comes into play here as well, I'm not really the playboy pickup type but I could see myself having a crack at a dating site in the future. But I am still in love,so it's hard. Plus to OG is married, so she can't just run off to him. If he was single she might, so again trust is hard.
I'm having problems with ordering internationally with my card, I'll get a trusted friend to try for me later today.
Thanks again, this is an amazing place. Just to know that someone has listened is an incredible help.
Just to touch on a few things to keep you going for the time being:
+ GAL = Get A Life: What this means is, getting out (or staying in) and doing stuff specifically for you, about you. It could be going to a gym, walks, cycling, going to the library, concerts, art gallery, extra curricular classes, spirituality, or reading, visiting with friends... focused on you, for you, by yourself.
This does a few things, most important of which it gives you time to process things, work things out in your heart and mind, enjoy life for the sake of learning and entertainment. These are things that help us grow in healthy ways. Second, it can add a sense of mystery and allure for yourself. It can draw our spouse towards us, as they may become curious about what we are doing.
+ you indicated SL: Based on the context of that paragraph, I'm assuming you are talking about love making? It is nice that she is including you. Of course, including you may be a tactic by her to keep you off guard. But that's paranoia talking. If she's involving you in intimate connection, it can help her to regain or maintain her emotional connection with you.
+ regarding the SMS she received that was work related. We talk about not mind reading, so this is just a guess. We can not know if there was any intention. She knows you snooped, she received a work related SMS and her phone was available for you to see and confirm the context of the message. Yes, paranoia could say it's a diversion to keep you off guard. It could also be an attempt for her to prove her claim. Or... it is all coincidental and all you have is a work related SMS which you shouldn't have snooped at.
+ regarding trust, there is no amount of proof that will MAKE you trust her. You will trust her when you trust her. Yes, that's very abstract but what that means is, once you finally CHOOSE to trust her again, you will. It won't be based on proof, it will be based on choice. Will you ever trust her again, like you did at one time? That is up to you.
So you now know what GAL is, so what kind of GAL activities could you do? Anything new that you've never done before? Make a longer list and then break that down to one or two things a week that you could do. How much is up to you, but do some.
Thanks for the Amazon tip, I've been able to order both books now.
GAL: Jogging, mountain bike riding but nothing with other people. I'll invest some time into thinking about this. Also been thinking about what my strategy (aside from a total meltdown) for handling life after might be in case things don't go well..
Been for a drive and a bit of a talk about our session tomorrow. I asked her how she was feeling about it, which was unsure and nervous, and I'm pretty much the same. I told her she needs to go for her, not for me she agreed and it ended in tears and an embrace. I didn't let it move onto any of the potential content, we'll leave that for the session.
