I have read through most of the DR recently, but have been dealing with the possibility of divorce since July 2010. I decided to post on here for support and guidance as I find myself struggling to hang on and keep trying. I’ve seen some great posts with suggestions & successes and could use some encouragement and ideas to keep going. I’m concerned that I am blind to my own habits and therefore am not recognizing the right behaviors to try or that I am carelessly doing the same thing over and over.
Quick background: Married 19 years, 2 wonderful kids, a son who's 13 and daughter who's 9. The “bomb” was dropped in July 2010 when she told me she didn’t love me and wasn’t sure she ever did. Feels our entire marriage was a mistake. Says the kids are the only good thing left. Says I’m a “nice guy” but that’s not enough to say she loves me.
I’ve struggled with how much to write. I’ve typed several versions that all end up in books. So my apologies, but gotta start somewhere, right?
Bomb dropped at same time as a move to a new state for a job. Was out of work for 15 months (took package over relocation to area we did not want to go). We both said the new home would be a great fresh start for us but it has not.
Wife’s behavior has changed in many ways. Initially W started drinking a lot with new friends. Got drunk several times. I confronted her because both her parents were alcoholics and she had not drank at all until she made these new friends. (she still drinks but has not gotten drunk to my knowledge in over a year) Also isolated herself. Stopped sharing info with me about herself, the kids or anything else. We use to share e-mail accounts but she set up her own and her own fb and would not provide her passwords. Spends lots of time on her phone or computer interacting with her friends from our previous home. She also always clears out here browsing history so I can’t see what she’s been doing online. Our own kids have recognized that she is not trying to make new friends in our new home. She avoids going to church where she use to be very involved. She has spent thousands of dollars for her own entertainment and travel to see her friends since the move, most on credit cards. W even spent 8 weeks of last summer in the other state with the kids while I stayed at our new home working.
Also my wife has had an EA to some extent with a husband of one of her friends back at our previous home. I confronted her on this after finding a picture she had hidden of herself and the OM standing with his arm around her. She said it was only an infatuation and nothing happened. She also said she realized “the grass wasn’t necessarily greener”. I want to believe her but struggle to do so. I feel no physical affair took place but am not convinced she has disconnected completely. She is still friends with the wife of this man and talks to her almost daily. She also stays with this couple when she has travelled to visit. I also know that she and the OM have had late night online chats at some point.
My initial response was the typical, awful stuff: desperation, pleading, depression, spying and arguing about why here actions were wrong. It had significant impact on me and my work in my new job. Was very blessed with a kind boss who stuck with me through this and has helped me get back on track. (Praise God).
I am doing better personally now and have been approached about a promotion opportunity. Am currently working on the LRT from the DR book. I have distanced myself a great deal and do not bring up our marriage issues unless she does. I have also made some great new friends who are supportive and have taken up hobbies. Just finished my first ½ marathon.
Right now I still struggle with how to act. Initially the LTR and distance seemed to offer small successes. She offered apologies for small things she does (she tends to be very angry and rude towards me about anything and assume the worst about what my intentions or thoughts are.) She has also suggested we go through a money management book together, which I feel is a good sign.
I struggle with wanting things to move faster than they are. It feels like the small successes are dashed by our lack of interaction. I lose hope and struggle to not go back into depressed activities. I also struggle with the idea she is playing me for a fool.
One big challenge I have is balancing the LTR and how to do 180’s. One of my own challenges is that I avoid conflict. This is a big reason for our financial debt is because I didn’t want to upset her and was afraid she would leave me if I addressed it. I finally took action by stopping all her credit cards and opening my own checking to manage the bills. My conflict avoidance also was a big part of not addressing our marriage issues much earlier.
But on a daily basis, I don’t know when to address issues to be different from my conflict avoidance or when to lay back and let it go. I also struggle with how to engage with my kids. I know they worry about things and they know we are struggling. My wife has moved into our guest room since returning from her summer away. My D seems most impacted by my wife. My W has not said she loves me in well over a year. My D now has the same habit of rarely telling me then even though I tell her daily that I love her. At first I asked her about it but then dropped the matter and just continue to reinforce to my D that I love her.
We did go to counseling for a couple months but have stopped. My W no longer wanted to go and our counselor (who we both liked) said it was like taking piano lessons but never practicing at home in between lessons.
I plan to continue the LTR and hope to start the money book together after we get back from the holidays with her family. Sorry for the book. Any thought suggestions from this point on would be appreciated.
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Hi ces, and welcome to the community. As you find your way around the board, you'll quickly learn you are certainly not alone. However, that doesn't stop your pain.
I want to suggest a couple of things. First, find Michele's article here on DB home page about the WAW Syndrome. She has the picture down pat. Second, if you can phone a DB coach, I've heard they are terrific! It would give you a better sense of what to do right now.
I have a list of some LRT 180's I'll share.
Here you go:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self-help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. (That's JMHO.)
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
If I was allowed only one thing to tell a LBH, it would be to keep his mouth shut. Most LBH's want to fix things by discussing the R. If she wants to talk, fine......but you listen, okay?
Post every day, if possible. Newcomers are monitored at first and your posts will be a little slow to show up, but just keep at it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've considered the phone coaching but due to the spending I've allowed my W to do, we're a bit tight. Hopefully after the tax return I can make that happen.
Have to ask, what is "JMHO" couldn't find that one. Luckily, I've never been one for the bar scene and while I have many faults of my own, I can say I'm pretty good at keeping myself from developing emotional connections with OW (tempted but hanging strong) And I also realize I can never get too confident in this either!!
Many of the 180s you list I've done pretty well on lately. I don't bring up the marriage (except confronting about the OM picture). These pulling back actions have helped create a few small successes.
I think my biggest challenge right now is to really GAL for myself and not to show my W anything. I need to find my personal joy in life and live it. Some things are going good, especially at work. But I struggle to keep that up all the time. I'm by nature a quite person who keeps pretty even keel'd.
The encouragement here will help me keep my focus to stay strong. That's what I want.
My W is a beautiful, caring person. She is hurting and struggling with many things. I wish she would trust me to help but that will just have to wait until she's ready.
We're finishing up our holiday vacation with her foster family. The visit has been good and I enjoy spending time with them. The challenge has been watching how little my W and I actually interact at all. That's the part that gets me depressed but I have to move forward and have fun with my kids.
We make the long drive home tomorrow. She leaves for a little over a week to spend time with her youngest sister who just had a baby. It will be a fun time for just me and my kids.
Happy New Year and thanks!
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Many of the 180s you list I've done pretty well on lately.
That's really great. The hardest part, however, is to do them consistently. Change is not easy for some of us, but if you'll keep your desired results as your main goal, I think it will give you the incentive to keep pressing forward.
Speaking of goals, have you considered personal goals for 2012? If not, I encourage you to make at least one big goal, then break that down into a couple and then continue to break them down until you have smaller ones to accomplish in order to keep on target.
I would like to challenge you to make these goals about yourself.....not your WAW. The reason I say that is b/c you can't control anyone else. Make sense?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
That does make sense and thanks for the challenge. I've never been one for new years resolutions but it seems like a good time to start. I'll have to give it some good thought before I figure out what those goals will be.
Happy New Year to you & thank you!
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
My W is going back to our former hometown for a weekend in January for a friend's 40th birthday party. I have very few details about this trip. I don't know where she is staying and she hasn't even confirmed how long she will be gone. I know she is leaving on a Thursday and over heard her tell her sister that she will be coming back either on a Monday or Tuesday.
My concern is she often stays with the friend whose husband she had kept the hidden picture. This of course bothers me a lot.
Should I ask any questions at all about her trip? If so what and how? If not, then I'm assuming to go the "have fun" route and continue to enjoy time with my kids.
Thoughts? Thanks...
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
That must be some birthday party! I assume she's not taking the kids along with her?
Okay, here's the thing about this OM she's having an A with. As long as he, or any OM is in the picture, you will not be able to apply what some MC or book authors claim that works for troubled marriages. In fact, most everything you'll need to do will seem just the opposite from what you ordinarily would think of doing in a crises. And make no doubt about it, this M is in a crises situation.
Does this OM's wife know what's going on between him and your W?
I would not ask any questions about this trip she has planned. You know her main intent is to be with OM as much as possible. Therefore, you will not accomplish anything positive by asking questions. She will either lie or avoid you "prying" into what she thinks is none of your business. (That's the mind of the WAW who is in an A.)
I'm going to say something that you'll hear a lot here. You cannot control her. If you try to do it anyway.....you will only push her harder and faster to D court. So, don't ask any questions. When she starts out for the trip, just say, "Be safe", or something simple. No, I'll miss you, and certainly no I love you. Don't try to give her a kiss or hugs. If she gives you one, then try to act as if this is your cousin while giving a good-bye hug or kiss. Keep it short, and the minute she leaves, you find something to do for you and the kids (or just for you). You must GAL while she's gone.
Don't contact her while she's gone. The kids can, of course. If she contacts you. delay responding as much as possible. You are just so busy GAL. She'll have questions about what you're doing when you don't jump the second she attempts contact.....but don't take the bait. Don't lie, but keep your answers vague. That's important.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks. This does seem very contrary to what I want to do but from reading the book, I see where you're coming from.
I've heard some of the planning. My W has been helping plan the 40th party. The party is Saturday night (I think). She is planning it along with the wife of the OM. There are about 90 people coming to the party.
My W told me nothing ever happened between them and I find it hard to believe she would continue to talk to this OM's wife as much as she does if something were going on between them still. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part and I'm being niave.
From my spying days, the notes I found in my wife's bible indicated that my W and the OM stopped contacting each other back in August. And to be honest, I'm not sure if that is August 2010 or August 2011. But I found the picture of the 2 of them this past October.
Obviously the spying is a hard thing for me. I hate the idea that she is trying to pull one over on me. Maybe its my pride but I don't want to be played the fool. I also don't want to believe that my W would go so far as to ruin someone else's marriage, even if she's given up on ours.
I will take the advice. I won't ask anything and I plan to have a good time with the kids.
We were suppose to leave this morning to head home from vacation (11 hour drive). However, my W ended up sick and is still in bed. I'm doing what I can to take care of her but being very careful to be too attentive. I'm checking on her every couple hours and getting jello or cold washclothes when she asks for them. No conversation except just to see how she is feeling.
Consistency, right? I'll be kind but keep my own life going. I want to be forgiving and release myself from the resentment. Its hard struggle to do so but its still my goal. Thanks.
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
I'm assuming her friend does not know. Can't imagine her friend has any idea that some type of connection ever took place between my W and her H. Can't imagine she would continue teh daily talks with my W if she knew that had happened.
Also, stopped saying "I love you" months ago. Mainly to avoid the awkwardness of not hearing it back. We have no physical contact except to hold hands briefly during dinner prayers once in a while. I make a point to let go quickly after the "amen".
Me:45, W:45 S:16 D:13 M:22, T:25 Bomb: July 2010 Putting finances in order for "D" Continue to live in same home-separate rooms
Change is not easy for some of us, but if you'll keep your desired results as your main goal, I think it will give you the incentive to keep pressing forward.